Author Topic: Base training  (Read 96471 times)

Re: Base training
« Reply #1550 on: April 06, 2019, 09:12:49 pm »
I like to provide balance to this year's success stories.

Essentially, I continue to not progress at all fitness-wise.

Today's awesomeness: I rode a sub 1.5W/Kg ride on Zwift, and managed that. When that was done, I thought I'd do something a bit, well... "normal", so I picked it up to 2w/Kg, and it was rubbish - not a particularly high heart-rate, but an RPE well higher than it should be - at least an 8. I felt sick, light-headed and fucking hard-done-by.

This is not something new, and I've been to the GP. We're still at the "You probably have a virus" stage. Yeah - that'll be one of those "Six Month" viruses then. Sigh...

Mentally - I've given up. Fuck it.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1551 on: April 09, 2019, 12:36:55 pm »
I got another flat on the turbo this morning. It was preceded by a thump thump thump type noise. When I re-inflated the tube, the tyre had a chunky bulge on it. :( So I got up early, and my reward was 10 minutes of my hours workout and I need a new tyre. These tyres (Challenge Paris Roubaix) have been a bit of a nightmare - they were pretty slippy and cut up a bit on the only outside ride I've done with them, and now I've got a bulge on the rear (and a hole in the front caused by it falling over when the other bike was on the turbo and the tyre resting on the turbo bike tyre). I was supposed to be able to commute to work tomorrow (half term)... ::-)

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Base training
« Reply #1552 on: April 09, 2019, 12:51:17 pm »
I like to provide balance to this year's success stories.

Essentially, I continue to not progress at all fitness-wise.

Today's awesomeness: I rode a sub 1.5W/Kg ride on Zwift, and managed that. When that was done, I thought I'd do something a bit, well... "normal", so I picked it up to 2w/Kg, and it was rubbish - not a particularly high heart-rate, but an RPE well higher than it should be - at least an 8. I felt sick, light-headed and fucking hard-done-by.

This is not something new, and I've been to the GP. We're still at the "You probably have a virus" stage. Yeah - that'll be one of those "Six Month" viruses then. Sigh...

Mentally - I've given up. Fuck it.

I hope it comes good for you.

It's not all rosy here either.

I dropped 23W on my ramp test on Thursday; have been having headaches every day since (waking up with a headache last two mornings, headache is controlled with caffeine and ibuprofen, also have neck pain and sometimes nausea).

Fucking Brevet Cymru is 3 and a half weeks away and I've not got a 300k in and can't get one in this month now - even if I suddenly get better. I don't need this. Doc's tomorrow for me.

Just hoping it's not my cool hair, which I recently obtained.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Base training
« Reply #1553 on: April 10, 2019, 10:00:28 pm »
So I'm on an anti-migraine drug. Potential rare side effects include heart attack, heart rhythm abnormalities and increased risk of stroke. Probably will  stay off the turbo while I try this out just to be on the safe side.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1554 on: April 10, 2019, 10:04:31 pm »
Ugh - sorry to hear you're not so well.

The last couple of rides have been a little less shit for me. I reckon if I'm still making PRs, there can't be anything too much wrong. Hopefully!!

We'll see how this coming weekend's 300 turns out.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Base training
« Reply #1555 on: April 11, 2019, 02:21:05 pm »
Ugh - sorry to hear you're not so well.

The last couple of rides have been a little less shit for me. I reckon if I'm still making PRs, there can't be anything too much wrong. Hopefully!!

We'll see how this coming weekend's 300 turns out.

Good to hear things are looking a bit better. Hopefully the 300k will go well.

I made a lifetime 4h PR a couple of weeks back - partially because I didn't stop vs normally would stop before 100km on an Audax. PBP 2015 may have exceeded this, but the power meter broke.

I woke up again early with a headache this morning - decided to not take anything except my normal coffee. It did subside by the time I was up, but came back mid-morning, so I took the drugs, and it's gone.

This isn't a migraine type pattern of headaches, this is more consistent with a cluster headache. The drug I'm on isn't a painkiller - it's only supposed to be effective against cluster headaches and migraine. If I've developed cluster headaches, I could be looking at 4-12 weeks before it stops. They're supposedly more common in the spring and autumn. I've only been given 6 tablets so if it's still an issue after the weekend I'll be back at the doctor's early next week.


Re: Base training
« Reply #1556 on: April 11, 2019, 05:22:26 pm »
That headache sounds a nightmare.
I was planning on commuting on the bike today - organised everything and then woke up with a super tight hip flexor/psoas (it actually woke me up in the night). So I figured discretion was the better part and drove - will do my TR workout tomorrow.
I'm unsure of whether I'm going to do a club social ride Sunday or a proper TT training session - the first TT of the season is on Tuesday, but the club social may be short of ride leaders. Wait and see how I go tomorrow morning and how much time I have on Sunday I guess.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1557 on: April 12, 2019, 09:02:50 am »
I did half of the scheduled workout - 2 of the 4 sets of under/over intervals.
https://www.trainerroad.com/career/duncanm23/rides/54054259-fang-mountain-1
It actually felt OK for the legs/lungs perspective (aside from the warmup), but my hip/psoas/back was tight, so I quit early to do some stretching.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1558 on: April 12, 2019, 10:49:55 am »
Last turbo session for a while last night.   Just under 300k to ride tomorrow and then completely off the bike until Easter Sat when I have my 300k qualifier.

Weight about right, sleeping well but in and out of over-tiredness.   I may enter a few time trials soon.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1559 on: April 14, 2019, 08:01:02 pm »
After a few days rest I am planning to do a FTP test tomorrow.  Traditionally I have done the 20 min test, total time about 50 mins.  I have the Easter Arrow on Friday and am considering doing the ramp test as I believe it will have less impact on the Arrow. With 3.5 days between the test and Arrow need I not be concerned and either test would be fine? 

Re: Base training
« Reply #1560 on: April 14, 2019, 08:49:10 pm »
I did half of the scheduled workout - 2 of the 4 sets of under/over intervals.
https://www.trainerroad.com/career/duncanm23/rides/54054259-fang-mountain-1
It actually felt OK for the legs/lungs perspective (aside from the warmup), but my hip/psoas/back was tight, so I quit early to do some stretching.

I did Fang Mountain + 1 on Friday. I found it the hardest one I've done.  Managed the 4 sets but had to have short breaks in each of the last two as I was grinding to a hault. 

Missed my session today, as it was a nice afternoon and it seemed more pleasant to take my daughter to play in the park!

Re: Base training
« Reply #1561 on: April 14, 2019, 09:23:38 pm »
FTP-wise in TR, I've lowered it slightly from my last test as it felt a little too high in the past couple of weeks. Also, I won't be doing a ramp test to kick off Sustained Power Build and will play it by ear, adjusting upwards if workouts eventually begin to feel a little too "easy".

Just completed Sustained Power Build.

The main goal has been to follow the process and see where it gets me. Not done a test since the new year, and am still using a number that's a touch lower than that Jan test number, after having manually lowered it to make the w/o's less impossible. But..., I've stuck to the process, luckily avoided illness and injury, and not skipped a w/o. I've tweaked intensity (downwards!) a bit where needed, but I've essentially stuck to the plan. My 6-week TSS avg has steadily climbed.

Compared to this time last year, where I did too much too soon then crashed and burned, it's a model of consistency, and I'm not complaining that power/fitness doesn't appear to have improved much yet. I feel that endurance is improving and FTP will likely follow in due course as/when volume rises from current modest levels.

I aim to do a test in 3 weeks, with little-to-no TR planned before then: I've got a week-ish outdoor riding lined up first, a short hilly audax-ish the following week, then a short holiday (rest & recovery!). Hopefully, the FTP test will show >=3.5w/kg.

Slow progress is still progress!!! My aspiration remains as 260w ~3.7w/kg by the end of Sept. I'm set to do a quite a lot of volume in Jul and Aug, so, subject to avoiding a big layoff like happened last year, this seems realistic and within reach.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1562 on: April 14, 2019, 10:26:10 pm »
After a few days rest I am planning to do a FTP test tomorrow.  Traditionally I have done the 20 min test, total time about 50 mins.  I have the Easter Arrow on Friday and am considering doing the ramp test as I believe it will have less impact on the Arrow. With 3.5 days between the test and Arrow need I not be concerned and either test would be fine?

I like to arrive at events with loads of rest in me, but every one is different, so it's personal preference.

But if you intend to test then I'd choose the ramp test as it'll be less draining and impactful. Avoid either test protocol if you've any hint of sickness in you at all, else Friday could be grim.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1563 on: April 15, 2019, 06:48:20 am »

Just completed Sustained Power Build.


Well done!

After finding the Base sessions relatively easy, I'm struggling with Sustained Power Build / Mid volume.  I've found the difficulty has ramped up quickly on me and I've just had to abandon a workout.  I was well rested and feeling good (so don't think I'll do better another time) but, when I saw what it wanted (Raymond + 7 - 4x8mins @ 108%), I didn't feel it was on as it seemed a big step up from what I've done previously. 

Part of the problem is that I have skipped a couple of sessions in favour of outdoor rides - albeit pretty challenging ones with much higher TSS than the skipped workouts, but probably more Endurance and Tempo than Threshold time.  However, looking at the skipped workouts, there has only been one with higher power (Baird +6, 15 x 1.5 mins @ 120%).  A nudge up in FTP at my last test has also stepped up the difficulty.

One possibility is to re-start the programme and do what you did - do every session - in particular Baird+6.  Although with the weather getting better I'll want to ride outside, and over Easter I'll have bike but not turbo.

Or the alternative might be to dial back the high intensity stuff as I'm not training to ride at those power levels.  Maybe I should look at the high volume build and see if that is a better fit [No - looked at it and it has similarly challenging intervals!].

Will spend the next half an hour, when I would have been riding, thinking about it!

Re: Base training
« Reply #1564 on: April 15, 2019, 09:30:05 am »
Build has a lot of "pulling from the top" stuff that's trying to grow your VO2 and give you headroom for FTP increases. If you just do long events, maybe it's worth just repeating Sweet Spot Base? That has a little VO2, but it's mostly sweet spot, and if that's where you are going to be in your event, maybe it's worth just getting really good at that?

I did a TT simulation on Sunday. It was really windy, so it was a struggle to do 30kph on the way out, and it felt like I was spinning like hell at 40kph on the way back. https://www.strava.com/activities/2288911051
Riding was OK, but I've got some sort of abdominal issue - my hip has been tight for a couple of months and it's either my psoas or something in there that's painful (not while riding but afterwards). I should probably go see the doctor, but I bet they will just say to rest for a few weeks, and that's going to drop my fitness back down just when I want to be building it up. :(

Just checked the Trainer Road analysis tool, and my cadence varied between 65 (on the way out into the headwind) and 85-90 on the tailwind section with gravity assistance too. I need to work on producing power better on this machine at reasonable revs (80-110). The TR version can be found here: https://www.trainerroad.com/career/duncanm23/rides/54168244-stadhampton-tt-test

Re: Base training
« Reply #1565 on: April 16, 2019, 10:42:04 am »
After finding the Base sessions relatively easy, I'm struggling with Sustained Power Build / Mid volume.

I've had a basic turbo for donkey's years, and used it on and off for sweet-spot type work based off heart rate. Used to quite enjoy it...

When I decided to use TR, in conjunction with a smart trainer that would force me to do the prescribed work, my thoughts were "if I just follow the plan doing only X hours per week, I should make good improvements". Simple.

If I'd known then how hard it would be to "just" follow the plan there's every chance I'd never have started! I dialled things back by just doing a Low Vol plan, despite theoretically having plenty of time on my hands, and still find that "just" following the plan is very demanding. If I attempted much more volume than I'm doing, I'd probably lose focus and motivation...

I've also had to adopt various strategies to stick to the plan: reduce my FTP number a touch from the last tested number; sometimes reduce intensity of intervals by 1-2-3% as a w/o progresses; sometimes increase recovery lulls between intervals eg. from 3->6mins; mental tricks such as eating during w/o's for the psychological boost this can give, focusing on just the next 45 seconds, etc. Whatever's required to ensure the vast bulk - the meat - of a w/o gets completed and the training effect obtained.

This stuff's not easy, else everyone would be doing it. Instead, it's just lunatics like us...  ;)

Using TR is a fine balancing act for me: the w/o's are sufficiently arduous that facing having to do much more of them could easily be demotivating. I'm trying to calibrate it so I do enough to make some progress but not so much I get fed up with it and jack it in; playing the long game of improving over a few years rather than expecting miracles in just a few months. It is after all supposed to be "fun" that we choose to do in our leisure time. None of us are getting paid for it; quite the opposite. Crazy!

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Base training
« Reply #1566 on: April 16, 2019, 11:03:44 am »
I think it's the willingness (and time) to push yourself hard in training that separates the great from the good (as well as genetics etc).

I've had a week off and then went back in with Monitor last night. No heavy legs! That's the difference that having a break makes. The workout was fine, I've not lost very much fitness with the week off, but I didn't carry any fatigue in.

https://www.trainerroad.com/career/sproven/rides/54242673-monitor

Comparing to FTP = 229 (currently 220 after the bad test a couple of weeks ago), when did this ride in September my HR was much lower (162 vs 154) => 220 is indeed too low and I can at least be reassured that I'm not back to square one.

fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: Base training
« Reply #1567 on: April 16, 2019, 11:10:41 am »
Looking at numbers is fundamentally pretty dull. Ignoring the current pain for long term gains requires continued motivation and willpower, which is a rubbish way of doing anything- see also 'diets'.

That's why Zwift is so popular.

(Whopping FTP increase this week- 208 to 209W. W00t!)
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

Re: Base training
« Reply #1568 on: April 16, 2019, 11:36:31 am »
Looking at numbers is fundamentally pretty dull. Ignoring the current pain for long term gains requires continued motivation and willpower, which is a rubbish way of doing anything

For many people, probably, but not for me.

I'm not bad at following a plan and sticking to a sound process I have some belief in, monitoring the numbers, and letting the long term come good (hopefully) from the cumulative effect of having retained discipline and exercised willpower throughout all the 'short-terms' along the way.

Same as in my vocation, investment management. I'm sure some others have vocations or interests of their own that crossover and contribute to training discipline, and vice versa. But it's probably not that "normal".

Re: Base training
« Reply #1569 on: April 16, 2019, 12:36:36 pm »
During threshold or sweetspot workouts I listen to podcasts.  During VO2 Max intervals I have music on, and get on the drops head down during the work intervals, tops during rest intervals.   I need to focus much more on cadence and breathing and rely on the drop in resistance to detect the end of a work interval.  Hats off to those of you who can do the superlong workouts, I don't have the mental make up for those.  My longest workouts are an hour with 20 mins of that being the warm up and cooldown with a core 40 mins interval session.


Re: Base training
« Reply #1570 on: April 16, 2019, 10:52:51 pm »
Thanks for comments above. Plan is to just do a couple of rides one Easter, then restart Build next Tuesday.
May go for the low volume version.


Re: Base training
« Reply #1571 on: April 23, 2019, 02:02:48 pm »
I did another TT simulation yesterday.  Beforehand I swallowed my pride and resolved to try a 17 tooth sprocket to see if I could spin it, given 54x16 wasn't working for me. Then I took my rear wheel off and realised it was the wrong way around, and I had actually been using 54x15!  ::-)
54x16 was a lot more comfortable, and I did my second fastest time on the Strava segment, despite there being roadworks about 1/4 of the way into the course (out and back, so 3/4 as well). Unfortunately, I'm away on the weekend, so I can't race Sunday (then again, if the roadworks are still there it's going to be interesting). The ride is here: https://www.trainerroad.com/career/duncanm23/rides/54544912-damned-roadworks-wrecked-tt-test- or here: https://www.strava.com/activities/2307097408 The power was OKish (normalised of 240, on an FTP of 243), but I struggled holding my position - had to have a couple of breaks on the horns on the way back. I had a strange dropout where my headunit lost all it's connections on my ride home - had to re-connect to the HR band and the pedals. Dunno why that happened - at least it was when it didn't matter.


On a really frustrating note, I rode out to the course, switched lids (it was too hot to wear the TT lid the whole time) and left my regular lid in a bag on the gatepost at the start.  When I got back it was gone. :( I guess as well as having an unpleasantly hot and sweaty ride home, I need a new lid.  :-[

Re: Base training
« Reply #1572 on: April 23, 2019, 03:15:23 pm »
12 days since I last got on the turbo but back on it tonight.

I have entered a 25 in a few weeks so time for a bit of mid-panic training.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1573 on: April 23, 2019, 03:17:31 pm »
12 days since I last got on the turbo but back on it tonight.

I have entered a 25 in a few weeks so time for a bit of mid-panic training.
How different is a 25 compared to a 10?  I've done a few 10s, and I want to have a go at a 25, but I've no idea what to expect. Do you change your gearing or position or anything, or just rock up and ride very slightly easier?

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Base training
« Reply #1574 on: April 23, 2019, 03:21:01 pm »
Went out for a ride last night - felt pretty good, 30 miles steady paced.

I was holding 17mph in still air with heart rate in the 130s.

The rear light attempted suicide and the front mudguard* bracket broke, but apart from that good.

* Cheap shit fitted by LBS. I've already got a replacement waiting to go on.