Author Topic: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov  (Read 4504 times)

RideHard

  • The London Grimpeur
  • ACH Organiser
    • Steam Rides & Chiltern Grimpeurs
Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
« on: September 21, 2015, 06:44:19 pm »
All aboard for the Chilterns Pub Crawl  AAA3 on this new classic Chiltern Cycleway ride with altitude..
A New Grimpeur du Sud event...  extending The London Grimpeur AAA2 150km to a full Audax  :thumbsup:

Another thank you to RideHard and his London Grimpeur.

A lifetime ago I was a member of the Bath Road Club and our club runs often ventured into the Chilterns. It was nice (?) to revist old haunts.

The route was great. Fantastic views, no truely nasty climbs,  fast descents and wonderful weather. The sound track of Red Kites added to the occasion.
It was a shame that Kop Hill was only accessible to petrol heads. I'll sign up for the 200k Chilterns Pub Crawl on November 1st to see what I missed out on.

really enjoyed the London Grimpeur; bastard hard ride for the 2AAA but some lovely views;



Steam Ride SR: (LOL)The Ghan/The Ghan reversed/Chiltern Pub Crawl 200, University Challenge 300, London Circuit 400, Raid Paris : Golden Arrow [Fleche D'Ord] (PERM's) 400,600,700
ACH SR: Dean 300; Steam Ride LOL 200; Quainton Express 100; University Challenge 600; London Circuit 400; C2C; Hadrian's Wall; Chiltern Pub Crawl

Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2015, 02:37:53 pm »
It's probably sorted by now, but if the organiser of this ride is looking for volunteers to help, I live in between the Wendover and Dunstable controls - I'd happily volunteers a some of my time to man one of those controls.

If it's of interest let me know.

Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2015, 08:41:12 am »
This is easily the best Chiltern Collection I have ever seen assembled in to one event! This really is a Tour de Chilterns ,,,,, here are some highlights:

Ascents: Speen, Haw Lane (Bledlow Ridge) Bullock's Farm Lane, Dudley Lane, Pishill, Chinnor Hill, Woodway, Kop Hill, Longdown Hill, Wendover Woods, Hastoe, Toms Hill, Dunstable Downs, Graeme's Dyke (Berkhamsted), Eskdale Avenue (Chesham)

Descents: Small Dean Lane, Foxboro Hill, Fingest lane, Wardrobes, Whiteleaf, The Crong, Ivinghoe Beacon, Bison Hill, New Road (Berkhamsted)

There are others, such as Bottrells Lane and Magpie Lane for example, but the above are just selected highlights. In fact, the route passes the starts of Aston Hill and Kingston Hill too, so you could choose to, gratuitously, climb one and descend the other without adding much distance to the ride as a bonus!


Cracking route, a landmark event packed with landmarks!

Brakeless

  • Brakeless
Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2015, 11:03:53 pm »
I've looked at this ride but 8 info controls on top of 3 controls really does put me off  :-[

Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2015, 09:28:04 am »
I've looked at this ride but 8 info controls on top of 3 controls really does put me off  :-[
Having done a load of personal DIY Perms in the Chilterns of my own, I can say that only 11 controls is pretty good for a Chilterns AAA ride. I spent months of trial and error devising my personal routes and trying to get a low control count for my DIY entries to Paul Stewart. My earlier post was a genuine complement to RH, out of respect given my experience of the time I have devoted to devising my routes and riding in the area.....it ain't easy to get the AAA rate without zig-zagging, but that means you need extra controls for the 'extremities' otherwise the distance falls below the required amount when using the 'shortest route' calculation for the Audax points.

Info controls only take a minute to stop at, on some you don't even need to stop, you just read a sign as you pass it. OK, you can miss them if using GPX, but I am a bit puzzled as to why that would put someone of a ride?

To be honest, given the effort I know must have gone in to devising this route, if I was RH I would be asking why I bother if that's the sort of response people are likely to give. It doesn't encourage me to turn any of my personal Chiltern DIY routes in to events or even Perms....who'd want to be an organiser?


Brakeless

  • Brakeless
Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2015, 11:04:15 am »
The response is feedback as to why I wouldn't enter the ride. I've done 2 of the rides out of Ruislip this year and fully appreciate them. I personally find info controls a pain in the arse and to stop 11 times in 200km is not for me. Most event organisers ask for feedback, this is mine.

Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2015, 02:18:41 pm »
It is not exactly Barton Mills control on the way back from Wells next the Sea or even being in the pub with Hummers. But banter at an info control in my opinion is always very welcome.

Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2015, 05:43:02 pm »
Sadly, AAA rides in the Chilterns are going to need more controls than usual for the reasons stated above, it's just that the topography and road network always require the zig zags to meet the AAA rate of climbing! I'll say it again, I think RH has done an amazing job in coming up with this route, and I appreciate that not everyone will have invested hours of their lives creating Chiltern AAA routes as I have but, believe me, 11 controls is low for the terrain and TBH they might represent some welcome respite from the climbing!

To my mind, info controls are a lot less hassle than getting receipts, and often one doesn't even need to stop if, say, it just involves reading a distance from a direction sign. Now, if it were 8 receipts/stamps and 3 infos, then I might understand! I'm not being critical of Brakeless, you are your own man and are entitled to your view, of course....and I can understand why less controls would be preferable. My concern is that if you represent a 'typical' view it might be really disheartening for RH given the amount of work, I assume, he must have put in to this.




hillbilly

Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2015, 07:17:35 pm »
I've looked at this ride but 8 info controls on top of 3 controls really does put me off  :-[

Same reason as I've not entered. 

Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2015, 07:21:32 pm »
I've looked at this ride but 8 info controls on top of 3 controls really does put me off  :-[

Same reason as I've not entered.

Sounds like future editions of this might be candidates for the mandatory route option, assuming that the AGM is happy to endorse it.

Martin

Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2015, 11:08:34 pm »
I've looked at this ride but 8 info controls on top of 3 controls really does put me off  :-[

Same reason as I've not entered.

Sounds like future editions of this might be candidates for the mandatory route option, assuming that the AGM is happy to endorse it.

Not for calendar events Shirley? I thought that was only for GPS perms. Everyone on a calendar event has to be able to collect stamps / receipts / infos without the need for a gps device


LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2015, 11:10:23 pm »
The options for calender events are being investigated and something may be implemented in future, but not for a while.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

RideHard

  • The London Grimpeur
  • ACH Organiser
    • Steam Rides & Chiltern Grimpeurs
Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2015, 12:59:41 pm »
I've looked at this ride but 8 info controls on top of 3 controls really does put me off  :-[

Same reason as I've not entered.

This ride IS DIFFERENT to any you're used too.. not a endless loop though forests, but a journey through up-lifting Vistas AONB..  8)
Audley, Dunstable Downs, Ashridge, Wineries, Vinyards, NT  's but Hey, it's you're choice  ;D
If you're a Hard-rider, you'll probably will appreciate the endless supply of quiant pubs, cafes and choice Watering controls rather than the stunningly scenic nature.. to fill up your water bottles :)

ACH SR: Dean 300; Steam Ride LOL 200; Quainton Express 100; University Challenge 600; London Circuit 400; C2C; Hadrian's Wall; Chiltern Pub Crawl

Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2015, 04:43:31 pm »
I've looked at this ride but 8 info controls on top of 3 controls really does put me off  :-[

Same reason as I've not entered.

Sounds like future editions of this might be candidates for the mandatory route option, assuming that the AGM is happy to endorse it.

Not for calendar events Shirley? I thought that was only for GPS perms. Everyone on a calendar event has to be able to collect stamps / receipts / infos without the need for a gps device

As LWAB says, the mechanisms aren't in place, so it's definitely a future possibility rather than something you should expect Real Soon Now. But the proposal was drafted to include (or at the very least not to exclude) mandatory route calendar events (where the possibilities of, um, trusting the riders1 might mean you didn't need silly numbers of manned or info controls purely for route integrity) and even calendar-by-GPS (where not needing to pass control facilities might offer exciting new route possibilities).

Calendar-by-GPS, of course, opens all sorts of cans of worms that we're not ready to face yet (around inclusion, verification, how to manage the arrivee ...), so that's very firmly a possibility whose time has not yet come, but simply declaring a calendar event to have a mandatory-route - and then setting controls accordingly - should be a little easier to make happen.





1: Trust can, of course, always be backed up by the possibility of a secret control

Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2015, 05:46:57 pm »
...Secret Controls on a mandatory route would be an excellent answer to cutting down the number of controls needed. I suppose that guys up front could always phone details back to full value riders, but I doubt that it would be seriously abused.

Meanwhile, for some reason I can't get the amusing notion out of my head that robust, tough, seasoned Audaxers can: navigate themselves, ride long distances, tackle hills, ride through the night, deal with mechanicals unsupported, monitor hydration and nutrition and ride during winter in all sorts of weather conditions but a few extra Info Controls is a challenge too far! Only joking chaps, no offence meant, hope you can see the funny side too!

hillbilly

Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2015, 07:17:40 pm »
Because my experience of such routes is that they aren't suitable  for Audax.  Or at least how I like routes to be constructed. Others will take a different view and care less about the "flow" of the route.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2015, 07:25:19 pm »
I thought that it was because cycling is the new golf. Too many infos is a good ride spoiled and all that.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Brakeless

  • Brakeless
Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2015, 09:09:16 pm »
Because my experience of such routes is that they aren't suitable  for Audax.  Or at least how I like routes to be constructed. Others will take a different view and care less about the "flow" of the route.

This ^^

A route with an info every 20km is far more suited to a Sportive with a signed route than it is to Audax. I'm happy riding my bike for 100km without stopping, a 200km with a few controls and a couple of info's is fine. Audax for me is about Long Distance not faffing around every 20km. If the event gets loads of entries then great I'm happy to be in the minority but it's just not for me.

Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2015, 09:12:37 pm »
Because my experience of such routes is that they aren't suitable  for Audax.  Or at least how I like routes to be constructed. Others will take a different view and care less about the "flow" of the route.

This ^^

A route with an info every 20km is far more suited to a Sportive with a signed route than it is to Audax. I'm happy riding my bike for 100km without stopping, a 200km with a few controls and a couple of info's is fine. Audax for me is about Long Distance not faffing around every 20km. If the event gets loads of entries then great I'm happy to be in the minority but it's just not for me.

And another vote for the "flow party". A perfect route has a control every 40-50k during the day and maybe 80-100k overnight. Much more frequent than that and the incessant stop-start begins to wear me down.
R10000 x 2   RRtY x 7    SR x 7    E = 130

Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2015, 09:58:29 am »
This is really amusing me, best thread in ages! I'm loving it.

RH designed a stunning ride meant to be attractive to AAA people living within reach of the Chilterns, for which I am very grateful. However, as already explained if you do AAA in the Chilterns, it requires extra controls.....there is a mutual exclusivity, less controls means no AAA, AAA means more controls...you can't have both. But instead of a thread frequented by the people to whom the ride is aimed, people who understand and accept the prevailing conditions, it is populated by people telling us why they are not suited to it. I just have this vision of people going on websites and emailing retailers to explain why they are not buying a product: 'Dear Sainsbury's, of the 3,000 products in your store here's a list of reasons why I'm not buying 2,976 of them.......'

Here's another analogy:

An attractive girl goes in to a bar and sits down. During the evening several men approach her to explain that they don't fancy her because they prefer blondes/they are gay/she's too tall/she's too short or whatever. With all of these 'uninterested' men walking over and then leaving, men who are interested assume that there is something wrong and don't bother. She leaves the bar alone wondering what is wrong with these people and asking why she went to the effort in the first place.

I for one intend to enter this thing of beauty and look forward to a good ride and feeling sh*gged afterwards  :)

PS Sh*gging is an energetic dance from the Carolinas' Beach Music scene (think: Jive meets Northern Soul)


mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2015, 10:09:28 am »
However, as already explained if you do AAA in the Chilterns, it requires extra controls
Well exactly.

A few weeks back I rode the Henly Hilly Hundred which covers a lot of similar terrain. It had even more infos-per-km than this ride (although only 100-ish km of them), but folks come back year-after-year.

I prefer less infos, but that ain't gonna happen on an AAA ride in the Chilterns!!!
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2015, 10:22:36 am »
RH designed a stunning ride meant to be attractive to AAA people living within reach of the Chilterns, for which I am very grateful. However, as already explained if you do AAA in the Chilterns, it requires extra controls.....there is a mutual exclusivity, less controls means no AAA, AAA means more controls...you can't have both. But instead of a thread frequented by the people to whom the ride is aimed, people who understand and accept the prevailing conditions, it is populated by people telling us why they are not suited to it.

Fair enough / mea culpa. But OTOH this is hardly the first instance of a thread veering away from its original theme (and FWIW I'm registered to ride this one despite my antipathy to info controls precisely because I rate RH's events highly enough to over-ride my misgivings).
R10000 x 2   RRtY x 7    SR x 7    E = 130

Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2015, 11:52:45 am »
Actually, joking aside.....and I mean no harm to anyone as, like everyone else I presume, I naturally agree that less controls is preferable where possible...........the moment of brilliance in this thread is jsabine's point about fixed routes and secret controls, a fantastic idea that merits more discussion. Would this have been raised/suggested without Brakeless's initial 'feedback'? Possibly not.

A healthy discussion centred around a fantastic 'breakthrough' event for us Chiltern AAA enthusiasts....just what forums were made for!

Brakeless

  • Brakeless
Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2015, 12:41:54 pm »
Huff n Puff - I see you put my feedback in inverted commas as I presume that helps you Huff n puff and shake your head  a little bit more.

Feedback is exactly what it is, I fully understand that a route such as this needs so many infos but it is also a reason why people may choose not to do this ride and letting the organisor know is fair enough.

As for your assumption that people commenting negatively are not the people that this ride is aimed at then you couldn't be more wrong. I've done two of the Ruislip rides this year a 200 and the 300 University ride, the last ride I did was the AAAnfractious, . I've also ridden the Pendle 600 this year and Rode Mille Cymru last year, as you can see I like a hilly ride, I also live within riding distance of the Chilterns and a 20 mile ride to the start of the Ruislip rides and I immediately looked at this one as a ride to do as I've ridden every hill on the route several times and know that it will be a good route.

Your comments about not be able to cope with the challenge of 11 controls, as well as telling us how to cope with them, are really pretty stupid and condescending,almost as stupid as Sainsburys analogies! it's nothing to do with any challenge, it's about not wanting to have to bother with a control every 20km.

Each to their own, I genuinely hope that the event is well supported and you all have a great day.




Aunt Maud

  • Le Flâneur.
Re: Steam Ride: Chilterns Pub Crawl AAA3 200k - Sun 1st Nov
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2015, 01:01:16 pm »
I'm just wondering, if some have got to the stage of prioritising the points earned over the having a nice day out on your bike with people you know and a cup of tea and a slice of caik at the end aspect of push bike riding.

And also, openly criticising it on an interweb forum is a bit harsh on;

a) The ride.
b) The Organiser.
c) The Volunteers.