All I want is a horizontal top tube...

[Highlander]

well, one solution, but it does not involve discs, is to buy a new frame, say a Bob jackson World tour, but able to take long reach calipers ( as in the end to end), but also have cantilever bosses fitted , in a suitable spot to accommodate 650b. Obviously the BB height will drop when you swap, dependant on tyre size.

But I am intrigued by the 'space saving bit' ?

A close clearance road frame fitted with long reach calipers will accommodate 700c and 650b wheels by just adjusting the height of the brake blocks.  I've considered doing this for a while now but disc brakes make it a much easier proposition and gives a lot more options wheel/tyre wise.  Bear in mind anyone wanting this facility is probably going to be swapping narrow 700c's for wide 650b's which are nearly the same outside diameter so the BB drop is hardly affected.

As to why I want to do it well I have lots of room at home but our "summer house" is a narrowboat and it is totally impractical to keep two bikes on board, even one takes up valuable space.  I'm a road cyclist at heart but I do occasionally venture off piste and even though Sustrans have improved some canal towpaths considerably, many of them would be impossible to negotiate on your typical road iron.

BTW I do quite like the look of the Trek 920 I think it's the "flattening" out of the tt where it meets the head tube. 

[Blodwyn Pig]

personally I don't like iot, looks like its been run into the back of a car.

try this,

http://salsacycles.com/bikes/marrakesh/2016_marrakesh_deore_drop_bar


Salsa marrakesh

To my eye, straight lines are straight lines, introduce curves and it all goes pear shaped.

[zigzag]

personally I don't like iot, looks like its been run into the back of a car.

try this,

http://salsacycles.com/bikes/marrakesh/2016_marrakesh_deore_drop_bar


Salsa marrakesh

To my eye, straight lines are straight lines, introduce curves and it all goes pear shaped.

i was wondering why some bike shots are being taken with the bike upside down? it looks so odd..

[bikenrrd]

How about a Cannondale Synapse or CAADX.  The top tubes don't slope that much on Cannondales, but it might still be too much for you.  The CAADX has quite a high bottom bracket (I ride one to work) so might not ride as you expect.

Personally, I buy bikes to ride, rather than look at

[Karla]

As to why I want to do it well I have lots of room at home but our "summer house" is a narrowboat and it is totally impractical to keep two bikes on board, even one takes up valuable space.  I'm a road cyclist at heart but I do occasionally venture off piste and even though Sustrans have improved some canal towpaths considerably, many of them would be impossible to negotiate on your typical road iron.

Surely the easy solution to that would be to buy a CX bike such as the Ridley mentioned up thread, and run it with either road or cross tyres on two sets of 700c wheels?

[sg37409]

The Rose disc cross frames seem to fit your spec. I'm not sure if they'll sell you a frame but you can ask.

Yes, I think it will. They do it in a randonneur spec too. I like my flat bar'd version, although its very short wheelbase and so has bad toe-overlap which I've grown to dislike a lot for commuting.

[Chris N]

i was wondering why some bike shots are being taken with the bike upside down? it looks so odd..

It is a bit weird.  I guess it's easier to hang the bike upside down by the wheels with fishing line than to try and prop it up for the glamour shots.

[Chris N]

As to why I want to do it well I have lots of room at home but our "summer house" is a narrowboat and it is totally impractical to keep two bikes on board, even one takes up valuable space.  I'm a road cyclist at heart but I do occasionally venture off piste and even though Sustrans have improved some canal towpaths considerably, many of them would be impossible to negotiate on your typical road iron.

Surely the easy solution to that would be to buy a CX bike such as the Ridley mentioned up thread, and run it with either road or cross tyres on two sets of 700c wheels?

That would be my thought too.  If you want fat tyres for a bit of off road action then surely a higher BB is advantageous - going from a 28 mm road tyre to a 40 mm CX tyre would give you a bit more ground clearance.

[Highlander]

How about a Cannondale Synapse or CAADX.  The top tubes don't slope that much on Cannondales, but it might still be too much for you.  The CAADX has quite a high bottom bracket (I ride one to work) so might not ride as you expect.

Personally, I buy bikes to ride, rather than look at

Yes I looked at the CAADX it's a possibility but I'm not keen on press fit BB's.

As to why I want to do it well I have lots of room at home but our "summer house" is a narrowboat and it is totally impractical to keep two bikes on board, even one takes up valuable space.  I'm a road cyclist at heart but I do occasionally venture off piste and even though Sustrans have improved some canal towpaths considerably, many of them would be impossible to negotiate on your typical road iron.

Surely the easy solution to that would be to buy a CX bike such as the Ridley mentioned up thread, and run it with either road or cross tyres on two sets of 700c wheels?

There aren't too many 700c bikes that will take "proper" off road tyres, (the Straggler I think is one) but that's not the main reason.  I'm quite small (and getting smaller) and a 29er just feels all wrong.  650b keeps the proportions about right.   

[Highlander]

The Rose disc cross frames seem to fit your spec. I'm not sure if they'll sell you a frame but you can ask.

Yes, I think it will. They do it in a randonneur spec too. I like my flat bar'd version, although its very short wheelbase and so has bad toe-overlap which I've grown to dislike a lot for commuting.

My apologies to rr, I missed that post first time around.  Yes the Rose range does seem to fit the bill but I can't tell from the website whether they offer a frame only option but I have sent them an email.   What I particularly like is the shortish tt's, like Genesis and unlike many US brands.  BTW I had some difficulty locating the randonneurs which are categorised under "fitness" bikes..?

The other one I have come across since starting the thread is All City I do dlike the look of them but this is a new name to me does anyone have any experience of them?
 

[Cudzoziemiec]

I know someone who has an All City and he certainly likes it but I can't remember specifics. It should be noted he is the world's slowest cyclist, especially up hill (not blaming him – he's got a heart problem – but mentioning it cos it might affect the bike's suitability if you want to go a bit faster). They do give the impression of being something a bit like an American version of Thorn, but without the incredibly high steerers. Which is a thought: don't Thorn do anything suitable for you? Also, another American brand I've seen, Soma?

[Karla]

How about a Cannondale Synapse or CAADX.  The top tubes don't slope that much on Cannondales, but it might still be too much for you.  The CAADX has quite a high bottom bracket (I ride one to work) so might not ride as you expect.

Personally, I buy bikes to ride, rather than look at

Yes I looked at the CAADX it's a possibility but I'm not keen on press fit BB's.

As to why I want to do it well I have lots of room at home but our "summer house" is a narrowboat and it is totally impractical to keep two bikes on board, even one takes up valuable space.  I'm a road cyclist at heart but I do occasionally venture off piste and even though Sustrans have improved some canal towpaths considerably, many of them would be impossible to negotiate on your typical road iron.

Surely the easy solution to that would be to buy a CX bike such as the Ridley mentioned up thread, and run it with either road or cross tyres on two sets of 700c wheels?

There aren't too many 700c bikes that will take "proper" off road tyres, (the Straggler I think is one) but that's not the main reason.  I'm quite small (and getting smaller) and a 29er just feels all wrong.  650b keeps the proportions about right.

Eh?  I wasn't suggesting a 29er MTB, I as suggesting a cyclocross bike, which is a different beast and can't really be compared.  They also have plenty of clearance, as CX tyres are typically 35 mm and CX courses are typically extremely muddy.  The Straggler's tyre clearance comes because it's a disc version of the Cross-check  - which is Surly's version of a CX/gravel bike!

[zigzag]

i think it becomes difficult if you have some "unpopular" idea about the bike that you want. you then have to either change your mind and start liking what's available or pay premium for a bespoke product. i have a list of specs for my "ideal" bike frameset, but as no one currently makes it i'm content with the ones i currently ride.

[fuaran]

The other one I have come across since starting the thread is All City I do dlike the look of them but this is a new name to me does anyone have any experience of them?

All City is yet another brand from QBP, who also own Surly, Salsa, etc. So probably about as hard to find as them in the UK. And seems rather expensive for a basic chromoly frame.

[Morat]

I'm pretty familiar with towpaths (mainly the GU And Oxford canals) and I'd be perfectly happy to ride my CX bike on them. CX bikes certainly fit the bill for discs, 700C wheels and fat knobbly tyres. Whether you can find one with a flat top tube and frame only... not sure. The Rose CX bike certainly looks pretty flat but I can't see any mention of it being available as just a frame.

[bikenrrd]

Yes I looked at the CAADX it's a possibility but I'm not keen on press fit BB's

Replace the BB with one of these:
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/kcnc-bb30-bottom-bracket-to-shimano-adaptor-road-68-mm-prod33009/
(available at loads of shops)
and replace the shonky FSA chainset with a quality Shimano one.  Will cost you another £100 on top of the purchase price of the bike for a 105 quality chainset.  You might be able to recover some of that money selling the shonky FSA chainset.
I'm going to do this to mine when the shonky chainrings wear out.

[Highlander]

How about a Cannondale Synapse or CAADX.  The top tubes don't slope that much on Cannondales, but it might still be too much for you.  The CAADX has quite a high bottom bracket (I ride one to work) so might not ride as you expect.

Personally, I buy bikes to ride, rather than look at

Yes I looked at the CAADX it's a possibility but I'm not keen on press fit BB's.

As to why I want to do it well I have lots of room at home but our "summer house" is a narrowboat and it is totally impractical to keep two bikes on board, even one takes up valuable space.  I'm a road cyclist at heart but I do occasionally venture off piste and even though Sustrans have improved some canal towpaths considerably, many of them would be impossible to negotiate on your typical road iron.

Surely the easy solution to that would be to buy a CX bike such as the Ridley mentioned up thread, and run it with either road or cross tyres on two sets of 700c wheels?

There aren't too many 700c bikes that will take "proper" off road tyres, (the Straggler I think is one) but that's not the main reason.  I'm quite small (and getting smaller) and a 29er just feels all wrong.  650b keeps the proportions about right.

Eh?  I wasn't suggesting a 29er MTB, I as suggesting a cyclocross bike, which is a different beast and can't really be compared.  They also have plenty of clearance, as CX tyres are typically 35 mm and CX courses are typically extremely muddy.  The Straggler's tyre clearance comes because it's a disc version of the Cross-check  - which is Surly's version of a CX/gravel bike!

Prolly didn't explain that very well so I'll have another go.  I'm attempting to create a bike that will run narrow tyres and tyres 40mm plus.  If I had a bike with   two sets of 700c wheels, one with wide tyres, even if there was clearance for the balloon tyres it would feel all wrong to me.  In other words to have really wide tyres I need to drop down to 650b.  The 29er reference was admittedly a distraction, what I was trying to say is I've ridden bikes with 700c wheels and fat tyres and I can't get on with what to me seem giant wheels.

I already have a bike that I use two sets of 26"wheels on, one with relatively narrow tyres, but you simply can't get a "fast" tyre in 26" size.  Nothing that would compare with a decent 700c road tyre anyway.  650b is the same, at least in the uk.  I think I'd be happy with two sets of 650b wheels but the availability of decent road tyres in the uk is a significant drawback.

26" and 650c would be another way to go but 700c and 650b gives you loads more options tyre wise.     

[Highlander]

i think it becomes difficult if you have some "unpopular" idea about the bike that you want. you then have to either change your mind and start liking what's available or pay premium for a bespoke product. i have a list of specs for my "ideal" bike frameset, but as no one currently makes it i'm content with the ones i currently ride.

Yeah I've done this a few times gone all round the houses then decided just carry on with what I've got. 

Paradoxically I'm quite pleased the bike industry has gone hook line and sinker for the compact frame because I think it's opened up a lot of new design possibilities and made life much easier for smaller cyclists and many women.   I'm frustrated I can't have what I want but the reality is I can (a bespoke frame) I just don't want to pay for it!   

[Highlander]

I'm most grateful to everyone who has contributed to the thread but I am struggling to keep up...

For information, I heard back from Rose bikes and sadly they do not sell frames only.

So All City, Surly and Salsa are part of the same group?  That does explain why companies using basically the same steel offer markedly different products.  Personally I don't think £400 is a lot for a 4130 frame even if the cost of the tubing is a small fraction of that.  In my youth the equivalent would have been Reynolds 501, very much entry level but I reckon the equivalent cost of a 501 frame 40 years ago would be much higher than today's products.

Talking of Salsa, I was looking at the Marakesh as a possible for my diminutive wife, the geometry in the small sizes is particularly sympathetic.  I think if I was to sell my soul to the sloping tt Salsa might get it.     

[Cudzoziemiec]

I didn't realise All City was another part of the QBP group but it turns out they're a pretty large group:
https://qbp.com/brands

[IanDG]

i think it becomes difficult if you have some "unpopular" idea about the bike that you want. you then have to either change your mind and start liking what's available or pay premium for a bespoke product. i have a list of specs for my "ideal" bike frameset, but as no one currently makes it i'm content with the ones i currently ride.

Yeah I've done this a few times gone all round the houses then decided just carry on with what I've got. 

Paradoxically I'm quite pleased the bike industry has gone hook line and sinker for the compact frame because I think it's opened up a lot of new design possibilities and made life much easier for smaller cyclists and many women.   I'm frustrated I can't have what I want but the reality is I can (a bespoke frame) I just don't want to pay for it!   

OK for small short arses and women, not so good for lanky gits like myself

[sojournermike]

How about a Cannondale Synapse or CAADX.  The top tubes don't slope that much on Cannondales, but it might still be too much for you.  The CAADX has quite a high bottom bracket (I ride one to work) so might not ride as you expect.

Personally, I buy bikes to ride, rather than look at

Yes I looked at the CAADX it's a possibility but I'm not keen on press fit BB's.

As to why I want to do it well I have lots of room at home but our "summer house" is a narrowboat and it is totally impractical to keep two bikes on board, even one takes up valuable space.  I'm a road cyclist at heart but I do occasionally venture off piste and even though Sustrans have improved some canal towpaths considerably, many of them would be impossible to negotiate on your typical road iron.

Surely the easy solution to that would be to buy a CX bike such as the Ridley mentioned up thread, and run it with either road or cross tyres on two sets of 700c wheels?

There aren't too many 700c bikes that will take "proper" off road tyres, (the Straggler I think is one) but that's not the main reason.  I'm quite small (and getting smaller) and a 29er just feels all wrong.  650b keeps the proportions about right.

Eh?  I wasn't suggesting a 29er MTB, I as suggesting a cyclocross bike, which is a different beast and can't really be compared.  They also have plenty of clearance, as CX tyres are typically 35 mm and CX courses are typically extremely muddy.  The Straggler's tyre clearance comes because it's a disc version of the Cross-check  - which is Surly's version of a CX/gravel bike!

Prolly didn't explain that very well so I'll have another go.  I'm attempting to create a bike that will run narrow tyres and tyres 40mm plus.  If I had a bike with   two sets of 700c wheels, one with wide tyres, even if there was clearance for the balloon tyres it would feel all wrong to me.  In other words to have really wide tyres I need to drop down to 650b.  The 29er reference was admittedly a distraction, what I was trying to say is I've ridden bikes with 700c wheels and fat tyres and I can't get on with what to me seem giant wheels.

I already have a bike that I use two sets of 26"wheels on, one with relatively narrow tyres, but you simply can't get a "fast" tyre in 26" size.  Nothing that would compare with a decent 700c road tyre anyway.  650b is the same, at least in the uk.  I think I'd be happy with two sets of 650b wheels but the availability of decent road tyres in the uk is a significant drawback.

26" and 650c would be another way to go but 700c and 650b gives you loads more options tyre wise.   

Velo vitality sell the Compass tyre.range, including the fast 26 inch tyre. Might solve your problem with a single wheelset.

[Bledlow]

I already have a bike that I use two sets of 26"wheels on, one with relatively narrow tyres, but you simply can't get a "fast" tyre in 26" size.  Nothing that would compare with a decent 700c road tyre anyway.

Presuming that by 26" you mean 559, there are tyres down to 20mm. Schwalbe lists 20,23 & 23-559 on its website, for example. I don't know where you can get them, though.

[Highlander]

Velo vitality sell the Compass tyre.range, including the fast 26 inch tyre. Might solve your problem with a single wheelset.

Yes, I have a set on order...  It will be interesting to see how they perform in uk conditions.  I have a feeling that the high regard for these tyres in the US might be something to do with the roads they ride on over there.  I need to be convinced because they are very expensive.  Watch this space.

I already have a bike that I use two sets of 26"wheels on, one with relatively narrow tyres, but you simply can't get a "fast" tyre in 26" size.  Nothing that would compare with a decent 700c road tyre anyway.

Presuming that by 26" you mean 559, there are tyres down to 20mm. Schwalbe lists 20,23 & 23-559 on its website, for example. I don't know where you can get them, though.

I long since gave up looking at manufacturers websites as you very often find the tyre you want isn't distributed in the uk.  In any case (IMHO) Schwalbe don't make fast tyres narrow doesn't always mean fast and certainly not in 26" size.   Having said that Specialized used to make a superb 1" cover for those of us with a yen for smaller wheels but it seems these days that uk distributors have decided that the only folk riding on 26" wheels are mountain bikers. 

I'm still looking at a 26"/650c set up, and certainly for my wife who has shrunk to the extent that she now inhabits the twilight zone of cyclists who can just about manage on 700c's but would be far better on the smaller wheels.  All you need is brakes that can manage a 6mm drop or, getting back on track, disc brakes.   

[LittleWheelsandBig]

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/tr/en/continental-grand-prix-26-bike-tyre/rp-prod39338 is quite a fast 559 tyre, equivalent to Continental's 622 offerings.