Author Topic: Hub transplant? Swap new hub to old wheel?  (Read 1793 times)

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Hub transplant? Swap new hub to old wheel?
« on: January 20, 2016, 09:59:14 am »
Given a knackered hub and reasonable rim and spokes, I'm wondering if it's possible to do a hub transplant. A sort of "reverse rim swap". What I'm thinking is: loosen all spokes but leave in nipples; remove one spoke completely from rim and hub and place in corresponding position on new hub and (very loosely) into free spoke hole on old rim; repeat process until all spokes have been transferred; then tension.

Is such a thing possible? Has anyone done it? Is it going to be any quicker than just building a wheel from scratch?

Thanks for the words of wisdom, experience, encouragement and ridicule. 
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

Re: Hub transplant? Swap new hub to old wheel?
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2016, 10:13:24 am »
You're welcome!

Re: Hub transplant? Swap new hub to old wheel?
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2016, 10:23:03 am »
By the time you've faffed with trying to keep the nipples in place it'll probably be just as quick to dismantle the wheel completely (cordless drill/driver works well for this - loosen spokes with spoke key then whizz the nipple off with a flat bit) and rebuild with the existing spokes and rim, replacing nipples as necessary.  If the wheel is old/well used it might be worth replacing the spokes too, depending on budget.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Hub transplant? Swap new hub to old wheel?
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2016, 10:46:02 am »
I might need to replace the spokes anyway, unless the flange diameters match. I think they're generally quite standard for Shimano but not sure.

While I'm here, any recommendations for a truing stand that is stable but takes up little space when not in use?
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

Re: Hub transplant? Swap new hub to old wheel?
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2016, 05:23:45 pm »
When I built a new front wheel I just used cut off zip ties round the fork legs and worked with the bike upside down.

Just make sure you move the zip ties away when spinning the wheel to check whether the brake is rubbing.
Miles cycled 2014 = 3551.5 (Target 7300 :()
Miles cycled 2013 = 6141.4
Miles cycled 2012 = 4038.1

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: Hub transplant? Swap new hub to old wheel?
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2016, 05:52:14 pm »
While I'm here, any recommendations for a truing stand that is stable but takes up little space when not in use?

I've got the M-Wave one.  Fails on stability without regular bolt-tightening.  It probably fails on space, too, now I think about it, because I'm struggling to think of how a truing stand would be much bigger, unless it didn't fold.  But on the other hand, it's reasonably cheap and doesn't need to clamp to anything.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Hub transplant? Swap new hub to old wheel?
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2016, 07:03:24 pm »
That reply falls somewhat below your normally very high level of useful input, Kim! ;D

When I built a new front wheel I just used cut off zip ties round the fork legs and worked with the bike upside down.

Just make sure you move the zip ties away when spinning the wheel to check whether the brake is rubbing.
Yeah, but I can't imagine myself managing to get the zip ties on each side equal.
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Hub transplant? Swap new hub to old wheel?
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2016, 07:06:08 pm »
I think in any case I have changed my mind; the way the freehub's playing up now, I need a new wheel pronto, so I'll just buy one from A Known And Trusted LBS. Then buy components in a considered, unrushed way to build a front wheel to match (or rather to not match!).
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: Hub transplant? Swap new hub to old wheel?
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2016, 07:27:00 pm »
That reply falls somewhat below your normally very high level of useful input, Kim! ;D

It started off well, and kind of fizzled out...


Quote
When I built a new front wheel I just used cut off zip ties round the fork legs and worked with the bike upside down.

Just make sure you move the zip ties away when spinning the wheel to check whether the brake is rubbing.
Yeah, but I can't imagine myself managing to get the zip ties on each side equal.

You don't need to; you just flip the wheel round (thereby cunningly avoiding the need for a dishing tool).  Indeed, you only really need the one reference point.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Hub transplant? Swap new hub to old wheel?
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2016, 07:30:33 pm »
point! But then you could just use a deliberately badly adjusted brake block. Maybe.
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: Hub transplant? Swap new hub to old wheel?
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2016, 07:32:51 pm »
point! But then you could just use a deliberately badly adjusted brake block. Maybe.

Indeed.  You can true wheels pretty well using the brake blocks.  Certainly well enough to stop the brakes rubbing when bodging things at the roadside.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Hub transplant? Swap new hub to old wheel?
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2016, 07:35:54 pm »
Truing wheels at the roadside means you've got to use what's available and your aim is to get moving again. It probably doesn't have to last more than a day before you can get to a workshop of some kind (albeit possibly an expensive one). Building wheels from scratch your aim is partly to avoid that situation. But partly, also, the activity is its own aim, for me.
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

Re: Hub transplant? Swap new hub to old wheel?
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2016, 08:04:41 pm »
I think in any case I have changed my mind; the way the freehub's playing up now, I need a new wheel pronto, so I'll just buy one from A Known And Trusted LBS. Then buy components in a considered, unrushed way to build a front wheel to match (or rather to not match!).

I've revived a Shimano freehub by forcing in lube from the back. Worth a go if you have one you think is on its way out. They have a o-ring sort of seal that can be lifted out for lubing, then replaced after. Thick oil or thin grease should do it.

Re: Hub transplant? Swap new hub to old wheel?
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2016, 08:12:57 pm »
Rose's own truing stand is good VFM and folds flat.
Get a bicycle. You will never regret it, if you live- Mark Twain

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Hub transplant? Swap new hub to old wheel?
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2016, 08:48:48 pm »
if you have a bike stand, you can use bike frame or fork as a truing stand. stick a piece of electrical tape to gauge roundness and cable ties to true the wheel. for an occasional build it works for me and doesn't take up any extra space.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Hub transplant? Swap new hub to old wheel?
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2016, 09:30:29 pm »
I think in any case I have changed my mind; the way the freehub's playing up now, I need a new wheel pronto, so I'll just buy one from A Known And Trusted LBS. Then buy components in a considered, unrushed way to build a front wheel to match (or rather to not match!).

I've revived a Shimano freehub by forcing in lube from the back. Worth a go if you have one you think is on its way out. They have a o-ring sort of seal that can be lifted out for lubing, then replaced after. Thick oil or thin grease should do it.
Interesting. It's slipping not seizing but nevertheless that might work. I had assumed the problem was the teeth on the ratchet mechanism wearing but apparently it's the pawls(?) not springing up and engaging, so just possibly a good lube would revive it for a while.
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

Re: Hub transplant? Swap new hub to old wheel?
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2019, 12:30:04 am »
Tonights task has been a hub transplant, on account of a broken flange (M756 XT 36h).


Performed as follows:
a) remove axle and freehub body, and transfer to spares box
b) transfer two adjacent heads out spokes and one head in spoke from the driveside flange of the dead hub to equivalent holes on the driveside flange of the new hub, putting them back in the same holes in the rim.
c) remove the nipples from all spokes remaining on the old hub.
d) transfer all driveside heads out spokes into the new hub, two flange holes and 4 rim holes slong from the two already there
e) transfer all NDS heads out spokes to the new hub, taking care to get them the right side of the DS spokes.
f) transfer the remaining DS heads in spokes
g) transfer the NDS heads in spokes

All I got wrong was failing to lace the initial DS head in spoke.

Done for tonight.
I'll tension and true some other day

Re: Hub transplant? Swap new hub to old wheel?
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2019, 11:42:44 am »
I think in any case I have changed my mind; the way the freehub's playing up now, I need a new wheel pronto, so I'll just buy one from A Known And Trusted LBS. Then buy components in a considered, unrushed way to build a front wheel to match (or rather to not match!).

you don't say what kind of hub you have but most freehub troubles  (which are BTW perfectly avoidable with a small amount of preventative maintenance but it is too late for that now....) can be resolved without too much difficulty. If you have a new wheel you can repair the old one at your leisure.

Re 'hub swap' the only benefit in even trying to have one lot of spokes connected to two different hubshells at the same time is that you might not lose track of what you are doing quite as easily.  IMHO that is a slight benefit in that this is one of the less tricky parts of wheelbuilding.

Much the best idea to strip the old wheel (keep the spokes in four groups if you want to) and then you can clean/inspect everything so that you know the parts you are working with are in good shape. You would be amazed how many 'good rear rims' turn out to be cracked and not worth building with again.

cheers

Re: Hub transplant? Swap new hub to old wheel?
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2019, 12:24:02 pm »
Tonights task has been a hub transplant, on account of a broken flange (M756 XT 36h).



Owww…   probably SCC, helped along by an evil cocktail of mighty spoke tension and road salt.

  A pre-emptive 'winter coat' of waxoyl might not look very pretty but will usually stop that from happening.

cheers