Author Topic: The Dean  (Read 32651 times)

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: The Dean
« Reply #300 on: March 22, 2018, 12:23:10 am »
There was no extra time at the finish. I was led to believe there was during the ride which was unhelpful.

LEL 2009 allowed extra time as riders were being held at northern controls during the worst weather.

mmmmartin

  • BPB 1/1: PBP 0/1
    • FNRttC
Re: The Dean
« Reply #301 on: March 22, 2018, 12:09:41 pm »
Arabella, thanks for a great sig line.
Besides, it wouldn't be audacious if success were guaranteed.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: The Dean
« Reply #302 on: March 28, 2018, 03:07:36 pm »
I think the biggest factor delaying riders was the snow on the ground. One *might* argue that this is different to weather - it's more like a closed road.

If I was making the rules, I'd be in favour of allowing some extra time for finishers in those conditions. But not just because it was cold/windy.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: The Dean
« Reply #303 on: March 28, 2018, 03:52:02 pm »
Quote
If I was making the rules, I'd be in favour of allowing some extra time for finishers in those conditions. But not just because it was cold/windy.
Then exactly why? If it hadn't been cold and windy most would have finished...

Firstly, kudos to everybody who made it to Oxford, or even past Chepstow. As was I packed soon after (mechanical, gov, honest) but suspect the biggest factor was the biting cold headwind. The snow was just the icing on the cake.

I'm generally agin weather concessions. They rather undermine the whole spirit of what we do. All events are run to the same regulations and dealing with the weather is part of it, so why should one event or set of conditions be deemed more worthy than any other? Your pleasant summer day might be my heatstroke? How would concessions be managed for Perms? And so on. It's a can of worms best left closed.

Being audacious is about setting out with a sense of adventure, knowing there's a risk of failure and dealing with it. If you achieve your goal, great, if not then there's always next time, and the achivement will be the greater. For events like PBP and LEL other considerations may apply, but everybody who started the Dean had a very clear idea of what they were getting into.

halhorner

  • Cycling Weakly
Re: The Dean
« Reply #304 on: March 28, 2018, 05:09:39 pm »
Quote
Being audacious is about setting out with a sense of adventure, knowing there's a risk of failure and dealing with it. If you achieve your goal, great, if not then there's always next time.

Speaking of next time... I am planning to revisit this as a perm on 14th April. So all being well I'll be back at Peartree at 6am in a couple of weeks time. Other Dean '18 Survivors welcome to join (or anyone else for that matter). Cycling karma dictates it will be a nice ride round in warm spring sunshine this time. You can enter on the AUK website in the Perms section in the normal way, I cheked with Jonah & he's ok.

j_a_m_e_s_

  • Prisoner 17091
    • AUK results
Re: The Dean
« Reply #305 on: March 28, 2018, 07:11:27 pm »
Just seen the results - 14 finishers, all of whom are Spartans.
Rule 77

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: The Dean
« Reply #306 on: March 28, 2018, 07:19:43 pm »
<blah blah ...>
 For events like PBP and LEL other considerations may apply, but everybody who started the Dean had a very clear idea of what they were getting into.
Why are they different?

They are different in having supervised controls under the direct management of the organisers supporting large numbers of riders from overseas and other parts of the country who have made considerable investments in time and money to take part in these events which occur only once every four years, who are likely to be unfamiliar with the route/terrain and who in the event of extreme weather would likely overwhelm other points of refuge. It also helps avoids any accusations of controllers forcing riders to continue whereas in the case of unmanned controls the responsibility would clearly lay with the riders. So it make senses to allow controllers on site to manage extreme situations by holding riders back and making allowance for this in the riding time allowed.

From a purist point of view I guess you could leave it to the riders to decide/kick them out regardless, but there is a case for recognising qualitative distinctions between occasional largescale events and more regular events.

FWIW, practically every time I've ridden in Wales I've been rained on, and not your nice gentle warm London rain either...

Re: The Dean
« Reply #307 on: March 28, 2018, 10:58:28 pm »
Quote
If I was making the rules, I'd be in favour of allowing some extra time for finishers in those conditions. But not just because it was cold/windy.
Then exactly why? If it hadn't been cold and windy most would have finished...


I thought the difference was quite clear, if it had ONLY been cold and windy many people would have finished but when people talk about having to walk uphill because of loss of traction and downhill because snow/ice build up makes roads too dangerous, and having to stop frequently to clear ice from tyres/mudguards it seems the weather is worse than would usually be expected.

Do we want to make allowances for that? or do we potentially want to be in the situation where riders chance a dangerous descent because they are close to the finish and walking downhill would be likely to push them over the time limit.

Although snow was forecast and we're all grown-ups. People could make their own decision about whether or not to ride. I'm surprised there were as many starters as there were with the low chance of success, and high chance of icy roads.

I'd be interested to know how many finished in the time limit. 89 entrants, 25 starters less than 10 finishers??  I think there may well be a case for time allowances when more people fail to finish at all than do finish because the weather is so bad. Although at this time there is no policy for such in place and others may have packed at location x when they realised they couldn't make the time limit, but might have continued if they had known allowances might be made.
   E = 77  SR = 2

3peaker

  • RRTY Mad 29-up! Series 30 ongoing
Re: The Dean
« Reply #308 on: March 29, 2018, 11:12:39 pm »
Related ride was the Cheltenham Flyer 200 on the same day but with a 21:30 last-Finish. 27 finished from a 60 initial entry and a 28 start. The later returners were in the same geographic region as The Dean but earlier and reported neg 3 temps etc. I chose not to cancel as I also had 100km and 150km events, with a (slightly) more pleasant weather window. I reserve my opinion of my decision had my 200 been a 300km and my only event on the day.

On a Winter 200km Perm over Gospel Pass I rode Trike (deliberate choice to contest an icy passage) and it took an hour to ride/walk down to Hay-on-Wye from the Pass. I made it to F with minutes to spare. I knew when I started it might be tight and it worked. Audacious? Foolish?
SteveP

Promoting : Cheltenham Flyer 200, Cider with Rosie 150, Character Coln 100 16 Mar 19, Gospel Pass 200, YatMon160 (Imp 100), Hoarwithy 100, Aug 2019

Re: The Dean
« Reply #309 on: April 06, 2018, 09:50:54 am »
On a Winter 200km Perm over Gospel Pass I rode Trike (deliberate choice to contest an icy passage) and it took an hour to ride/walk down to Hay-on-Wye from the Pass. I made it to F with minutes to spare. I knew when I started it might be tight and it worked. Audacious? Foolish?


Starting when you know success is uncertain = audacious
Making a decision based on the forecast to use different (slower?) equipment: reducing chances of success, still audacious, not foolish.
Walking rather than risking it on descent, further reducing chances of success:  ditto, ditto.

Re: The Dean
« Reply #310 on: September 26, 2018, 01:48:13 pm »
This is now in the calendar for 2019. We've finally had to address the underdistanceness of this venerable event using modern measuring tools so the final info control has been relocated slightly to get the min. distance over 300km. The alternative of making this a mandatory route event seemed inappropriate considering it's the origin of the Larrington Manoeuvre and also not to let riders worry about using alternative roads in case of bad weather.

Old files have been removed and a new GPX track (finally!) and route sheet will be available on the entry page once route checks have been completed, close to the start of the ride.
“That slope may look insignificant, but it's going to be my destiny" - Fitzcarraldo

Re: The Dean
« Reply #311 on: September 26, 2018, 05:43:41 pm »
Entered! Do I get number 1 on my brevet ?  ;D

Fake edit: and of course, let's hope winter doesn't wreck it this time!  ::-)

Jonah

  • Audax Club Hackney
Re: The Dean
« Reply #312 on: September 28, 2018, 08:12:13 pm »
This is now in the calendar for 2019. We've finally had to address the underdistanceness of this venerable event using modern measuring tools so the final info control has been relocated slightly to get the min. distance over 300km. The alternative of making this a mandatory route event seemed inappropriate considering it's the origin of the Larrington Manoeuvre and also not to let riders worry about using alternative roads in case of bad weather.

Old files have been removed and a new GPX track (finally!) and route sheet will be available on the entry page once route checks have been completed, close to the start of the ride.

Nice one BOSS

Re: The Dean
« Reply #313 on: January 08, 2019, 04:47:52 pm »
Travelodge currently £16.80 for Friday night...