Author Topic: Etrex Vista HCx wrong date...  (Read 14581 times)

Re: Etrex HCx wrong date...
« Reply #50 on: August 25, 2016, 05:45:15 pm »
Garmin Express sees the HCx but states "does not support this device.  Use Garmin Map updater".  So downloaded and have GMU open (IE plugin) but can't see how to access the "eTrex HCx/HC Bravo2 GPS Chipset software version 2.30" update.  Any ideas?
Destroying rainforest for economic gain is like burning a Renaissance painting to cook a meal.  EOW.

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: Etrex HCx wrong date...
« Reply #51 on: August 25, 2016, 06:28:39 pm »
Hmm, that's stupid.
They have hidden their downloads behind the Garmin Express app, which does not support your device!

Googling, I get here:
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/store/downloadsUpdates.jsp?product=010-00630-00&cID=145&pID=8703

Which if you follow the links wants you to use the WebUpdater.

See if the WebUpdater tool can do anything for you.

Re: Etrex HCx wrong date...
« Reply #52 on: August 25, 2016, 07:43:40 pm »
Hmm, that's stupid.
They have hidden their downloads behind the Garmin Express app, which does not support your device!

Googling, I get here:
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/store/downloadsUpdates.jsp?product=010-00630-00&cID=145&pID=8703

Which if you follow the links wants you to use the WebUpdater.

See if the WebUpdater tool can do anything for you.

Thanks.  Unfortunately I think it's a wild goose chase.  Logged into garmin, installed webupdater, clicked download (on above link page), agreed to conditions, goes to a page v.similar to above link page, but with nothing to download.   :-\
Destroying rainforest for economic gain is like burning a Renaissance painting to cook a meal.  EOW.

iddu

  • Are we there yet?
Re: Etrex HCx wrong date...
« Reply #53 on: August 25, 2016, 09:32:38 pm »
Ohh - have a dig around http://www.gawisp.com/perry/agree.html....

Mmmm http://www.gawisp.com/perry/etrex/vista/eTrexVistaHCx_230.exe & later...that updater lets you choose RS-232 or USB, which may be a good start...

Gawd bless packrats of the InterWebz ;)
I'd offer you some moral support - but I have questionable morals.

Re: Etrex HCx wrong date...
« Reply #54 on: August 25, 2016, 10:02:28 pm »
Thanks iddu, I think that is firmware v2.30*, rather than the "Bravo2 GPS Chipset software version 2.30" to reset HCx clock.

* http://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=3643
Destroying rainforest for economic gain is like burning a Renaissance painting to cook a meal.  EOW.

iddu

  • Are we there yet?
Re: Etrex HCx wrong date...
« Reply #55 on: August 25, 2016, 11:33:33 pm »
I was thinking more about whether you could shim the Chipset stuff in via the old updater...
I'd offer you some moral support - but I have questionable morals.

Re: Etrex HCx wrong date...
« Reply #56 on: August 27, 2016, 06:34:44 pm »
OK have the link.

download.garmin.com/software/eTrexHCx_HCBravo2GPSChipset_230.rgn

If I drop the file on to the older updater.exe desktop icon, it sees my Etrex, and I can set USB mode.

https://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=3731
Quote
This software update will reset your device clock to October 28, 2006, 23:59 UTC. You will need to acquire a satellite fix to correct the date and time before starting the timer. The first fix after updating the software may take longer than normal to obtain.

edit.

Nope doesn't fix.
Destroying rainforest for economic gain is like burning a Renaissance painting to cook a meal.  EOW.

iddu

  • Are we there yet?
Re: Etrex HCx wrong date...
« Reply #57 on: August 28, 2016, 08:46:13 pm »
Bah :(
I'd offer you some moral support - but I have questionable morals.

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: Etrex HCx wrong date...
« Reply #58 on: August 28, 2016, 08:49:14 pm »
Yes, Bah.

Re: Etrex HCx wrong date...
« Reply #59 on: August 29, 2016, 04:58:34 pm »
Used the unit on a short walk in the Chilterns today...  What do you make of (top section of gpx below) the fact that the correct time/date is listed first up, followed by the 1936 + 100yrs i.e. 2036. 

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="no" ?>
<gpx xmlns="http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1" creator="MapSource 6.16.3" version="1.1" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1 http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1/gpx.xsd">

  <metadata>
    <link href="http://www.garmin.com">
      <text>Garmin International</text>
    </link>
    <time>2016-08-29T15:45:42Z</time>
    <bounds maxlat="51.587761407718062" maxlon="-0.961327347904444" minlat="51.575858183205128" minlon="-0.988298803567886"/>
  </metadata>

  <trk>
    <name>ACTIVE LOG 030</name>
    <extensions>
      <gpxx:TrackExtension xmlns:gpxx="http://www.garmin.com/xmlschemas/GpxExtensions/v3">
        <gpxx:DisplayColor>Magenta</gpxx:DisplayColor>
      </gpxx:TrackExtension>
    </extensions>
    <trkseg>
      <trkpt lat="51.575990365818143" lon="-0.988298803567886">
        <ele>108.7662353515625</ele>
        <time>2036-04-14T11:17:59Z</time>
      </trkpt>
Destroying rainforest for economic gain is like burning a Renaissance painting to cook a meal.  EOW.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Etrex HCx wrong date...
« Reply #60 on: August 29, 2016, 05:01:15 pm »
Interesting...

Oh, wait.  That claims to have been made by Mapsource.  The date in the header will be when it saved the file, but the ones in the trackpoints will be from the GPS.

What happens if you open a GPX log from the SD card directly?
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Etrex HCx wrong date...
« Reply #61 on: August 29, 2016, 06:30:31 pm »
Yes, you're right - mpsrce added metadata.
Destroying rainforest for economic gain is like burning a Renaissance painting to cook a meal.  EOW.

iddu

  • Are we there yet?
Re: Etrex HCx wrong date...
« Reply #62 on: August 29, 2016, 10:32:52 pm »
So, thinking this can't be unique, I did a bit of googling:

http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?s=b97d3b6de27ec92f67362cbe4d6867b7&showtopic=177915&view=findpost&p=3169159

Quote
Coggins, thank you! The "super master reset" seems to have worked, at least for now.

Specifically, a normal "master rest" on the eTrex Vista is accomplished by holding down the "Page" button and "Enter" (i.e. the click stick) while powering up. You are prompted that a full reset will occur, and after confirming, the machine is reset. However, in my case, this achieved a full reset, but did not fix the date problem.

However, the undocumented "super master reset" on the eTrex Vista is achieved by simultaneously holding down the "Page, "Enter" and "Find" buttons while powering up. You have to hold all buttons in for about 5 to 7 seconds, and you DON'T get the warning message, but when the machine finally restarts, it is fully reset. After acquiring a satellite fix (took several minutes) - lo and behold - my time AND date both seem to be correct!

A later post suggests that a Garmin Protocol command to set the date on the unit exists, and hints at a mysterious tool for doing so.


Thinking about it, I'm not sure why the super master reset would solve the problem, unless it writes a default date that just happens to be in the current 1024-week epoch.  Unless it can extract a full date from the almanac signal(?), and knows to do that on account of not knowing what date it is...

Right.  Back to first principles. 

Although you have done an (*thwack*) super master reset / (extended) wait, have you followed the embedded supplemental link from http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?s=b97d3b6de27ec92f67362cbe4d6867b7&showtopic=177915&view=findpost&p=3169159 conversation to http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/dgps.htm#waasalmanac

Not something like it's defaulting to base garmin, post-SMR, but attempting to find/apply non-collected WAAS almanac corrections??
I'd offer you some moral support - but I have questionable morals.

iddu

  • Are we there yet?
Re: Etrex HCx wrong date...
« Reply #63 on: August 29, 2016, 10:53:54 pm »
Suppose a quicker test may be to set WAAS/EGNOS to disabled, and see what happens on 'pure' correction...
I'd offer you some moral support - but I have questionable morals.

Re: Etrex HCx wrong date...
« Reply #64 on: August 29, 2016, 11:07:39 pm »

    <time>2016-08-29T15:45:42Z</time>

     <time>2036-04-14T11:17:59Z</time>
 

That looks like the 1024 week bug that some GPS receivers suffer from.
http://www.timeanddate.com/date/dateadded.html?d1=29&m1=8&y1=2016&type=add&ay=&am=&aw=1024&ad=&rec=
It might be fixed by a total reset, but once the receiver thinks that the date is 1024 weeks forward, it regards current date as implausible, so it sticks.

I have no idea why the time is wrong by a few hours.
Quote from: Kim
Paging Diver300.  Diver300 to the GSM Trimphone, please...

Re: Etrex HCx wrong date...
« Reply #65 on: August 29, 2016, 11:54:30 pm »

Right.  Back to first principles. 

Although you have done an (*thwack*) super master reset / (extended) wait, have you followed the embedded supplemental link from http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?s=b97d3b6de27ec92f67362cbe4d6867b7&showtopic=177915&view=findpost&p=3169159 conversation to http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/dgps.htm#waasalmanac

Not something like it's defaulting to base garmin, post-SMR, but attempting to find/apply non-collected WAAS almanac corrections??

I could pop up on to the Ridgeway and try and load the WAAS almanac...
Destroying rainforest for economic gain is like burning a Renaissance painting to cook a meal.  EOW.

Re: Etrex HCx wrong date...
« Reply #66 on: August 29, 2016, 11:57:38 pm »

    <time>2016-08-29T15:45:42Z</time>

     <time>2036-04-14T11:17:59Z</time>
 

That looks like the 1024 week bug that some GPS receivers suffer from.
http://www.timeanddate.com/date/dateadded.html?d1=29&m1=8&y1=2016&type=add&ay=&am=&aw=1024&ad=&rec=
It might be fixed by a total reset, but once the receiver thinks that the date is 1024 weeks forward, it regards current date as implausible, so it sticks.

I have no idea why the time is wrong by a few hours.

Thanks for this.  Samuel D mentioned this 1024 issue - interesting to see the calculation.

Diffs between dates is simply correct time /2016 when gpx uploaded to Mapsource vs GMT/2036 when the unit was turned on at start of walk.



Found this from NPL re. the 'rollover of doom'...   http://www.npl.co.uk/reference/faqs/when-and-what-is-the-gps-week-rollover-problem-(faq-time)

Quote
When and what is the GPS week rollover problem? (FAQ - Time)

GPS, the Global Positioning System, has its own date and time scale for expressing satellite positions, based on counting weeks, and seconds within a week. To limit the size of the numbers used in the data and calculations the GPS Week Number is a ten-bit count in the range 0-1023, repeating every 1024 weeks. Week 0 started at 00:00:00 UTC on Sunday, 6th January 1980, so the week number 'rolled over' from 1023 to 0 at 23:59:47 UTC on Saturday, 21st August 1999. This was before midnight UTC because every GPS week contains exactly 604 800 s, to keep the calculations consistent. The 13 intervening leap seconds had put UTC behind GPS system time.

The problem is that some GPS-based equipment or software may be confused by the rollover event, which is similar to the year-2000 software problems. Anyone likely to be affected should seek advice from the manufacturer or supplier of the product concerned. The GPS week rollover next occurs on 2019 April 06.
Destroying rainforest for economic gain is like burning a Renaissance painting to cook a meal.  EOW.

iddu

  • Are we there yet?
Re: Etrex HCx wrong date...
« Reply #67 on: August 30, 2016, 01:59:03 am »
Bah....

Google-fu led to http://www.portalgps.com.br/viewtopic.php?t=12706, which led to http://www.portalgps.com.br/download/file.php?id=1211&sid=e85fe64bfe690537cda4f05bcf3d973c, aka "garmin_timeset.zip"...

...but the .zip is corrupted for extraction purposes :facepalm:

Knowing that it did exist, you could poke Garmin TS to troll their archives for copy.

Why does one get the feeling they're in phone co mode, and come 2019 a shedload of serviceable devices will cease to work, in similar manner...
I'd offer you some moral support - but I have questionable morals.

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Etrex HCx wrong date...
« Reply #68 on: August 30, 2016, 08:38:52 am »
Yebbut the thing about the Millennium bug is that nothing happened ...
It's not dark yet but it's getting there.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Etrex HCx wrong date...
« Reply #69 on: August 30, 2016, 01:36:30 pm »
Yebbut the thing about the Millennium bug is that nothing happened ...

That's because fixing the Millenium Bug was shitwork, which only gets noticed when it isn't done properly.  Critical systems were fixed or bodged in time for nothing to happen.  Non-critical ones were fixed or failed in non-critical ways and were fixed later.

I don't think I personally saw anything more dramatic than time-telling devices failing to calculate the day of week correctly, or databases returning two-digit years and being interpreted by humans with common sense.  But then I'm too young to have ever thought that two-digit years were a good idea, and what little date-related code I've worked on has mostly worked in Unix time.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Etrex HCx wrong date...
« Reply #70 on: August 30, 2016, 02:06:55 pm »
I think I managed to get a lock (following hard HCx reset) on the EGNOS satellites (WAAS not visible apparently*), as the last two positions of 'satellite bars' were filled, one had a "D" in.  given the amount of time that elapsed, I would have thought the almanac probably downloaded - though not sure.

No cigar on date fix, however.

*http://www.cnav.com/GeoSatelliteCalculator
Destroying rainforest for economic gain is like burning a Renaissance painting to cook a meal.  EOW.

iddu

  • Are we there yet?
Re: Etrex HCx wrong date...
« Reply #71 on: August 30, 2016, 04:01:41 pm »
Who Hoo - do we have a keeper?

GPSBabel: http://www.gpsbabel.org/download.html

"Garmin serial/USB protocol (garmin)

This format can...
• read and write waypoints
• read and write tracks
• read and write routes
This format has the following options: snlen, snwhite, deficon, get_posn, power_off, erase_t, resettime, category, bitscategory .
"
-->

"resettime option

Sync GPS time to computer time.

This option is experimental and was added to solve a very specific problem. Certain Garmin units (the
original black and white Vista is known to have this) will sometimes scramble their clock crazy far into the
future (like 2066). When this happens, the GPS itself may or may not work and later conversations with
GPSBabel may fail as the time overflows the documented range. The use of resettime brings the GPS's
internal clock back close enough to reality that the GPS itself can then 'fix' it when it has next a lock."
I'd offer you some moral support - but I have questionable morals.

Re: Etrex HCx wrong date...
« Reply #72 on: August 30, 2016, 04:37:42 pm »
Thanks sounds hopeful; though the 3rd party nature is slightly more 'scary'.  Will download and take a look.
Destroying rainforest for economic gain is like burning a Renaissance painting to cook a meal.  EOW.

iddu

  • Are we there yet?
Re: Etrex HCx wrong date...
« Reply #73 on: August 30, 2016, 04:49:04 pm »
GNU Public Licence - you can review & clean build if you're really paranoid, but I'd just take the relevant active binary...
I'd offer you some moral support - but I have questionable morals.

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Etrex HCx wrong date...
« Reply #74 on: August 30, 2016, 05:39:12 pm »
I was about to say "what harm can it do?" - but actually, apart from one small detail, you do have a perfectly functioning GPS already ...

But I would trust GPSBabel, it's a well-known and long-established utility that loads of people use.
It's not dark yet but it's getting there.