Author Topic: Cookie opens her mouth - and out comes sense again  (Read 7990 times)

Re: Cookie opens her mouth - and out comes sense again
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2016, 04:36:38 pm »
It's a forum tradition that the right thread will never unknowingly lacquer pun or three.
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Jaded

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Re: Cookie opens her mouth - and out comes sense again
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2016, 04:39:28 pm »
You need your coat.
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

Re: Cookie opens her mouth - and out comes sense again
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2016, 04:46:45 pm »
An undercoat as well. It's cold out there.
Rust never sleeps

David Martin

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Re: Cookie opens her mouth - and out comes sense again
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2016, 04:57:44 pm »
I'd also be surprised to hear anything from DB about it.  Given that in some cycling circles he is practically sainted, it will wash away from him if he keeps his head down.

You only have to look at the amateur scene to see that BC don't see women's and men's racing on an equal footing (and has always been so).  One example is that there is a national series for junior men (16 to 18 years old), but no equivalent for women, despite offers from organisers to provide for one.

Most women who race will be able to tell you a case of overt sexist toward them, and of the more everyday, unnoticed sexism in racing.  At amateur level, a fraction of events will include a women's race, resulting in racing female riders travelling significantly greater distances to compete, usually in E/1/2/3/4 races, where the men's equivalent is 2/3/4.  This means that female riders starting out (cat 4) often have to ride in fields with riders who are leagues ahead of them, much more so than male riders at the same stage.  This doesn't encourage new women to give racing a go.

I have been to an E/1/2/3/4 race where the field was massively diverse in experience - the commissaire's comment on this could have been 'there is potentially a wide range of ability in the field, here is what will happen when the field splits'. His actual comment was 'some of you won't have done much training because you need to spend a lot of time doing housework'. I don't believe that it is isolated individuals at all.
Providing for women's racing is a challenge in particular due to the relatively small numbers and the increasing costs of promoting an event. Locally I hope the new off road circuits will allow for more opportunity to get balanced racing going (ie fields that are even in ability). However, that commissaire should be retired. I hope he (I presume it was a he) was reported through the appropriate channels.
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Re: Cookie opens her mouth - and out comes sense again
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2016, 05:24:16 pm »
It is challenging to promote women's events, but there is a lot that can be done to help to reduce costs.  A good example is using 'piggyback' events where the men's and women's events are held on the same course at the same time.  This requires a course to either be continuous or loops over a particular size such that the women's event can start 10 minutes after the men's event.  This allows many of the overheads to be doubled up (venue hire, static marshals etc.), but does require 1.5x NEG and 2x commissaire.  I've comm'ed at regional events doing this, and it works quite well. I'm also a believer in using men's entries to support women's events until they are big enough to stand alone (no events means no riders, no riders means no events - someone needs to break the stalemate).  There are women's events with 80 rider fields, so female riders definitely exist.

That commissaire was reported; that comment wasn't the worst aspect of that event, but we never heard anything from it. 

On the flip-side, I've met some phenomenal supporters and promoters of women's cycling, and it has come a long way in the last few years.

Mr Larrington

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Re: Cookie opens her mouth - and out comes sense again
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2016, 06:27:38 pm »
Does anyone know what she did after retirement?

Reportedly studying for an MBA, though that was two years ago.
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Re: Cookie opens her mouth - and out comes sense again
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2016, 06:43:45 pm »
And Shane Sutton resigns....
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Re: Cookie opens her mouth - and out comes sense again
« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2016, 10:31:50 pm »
And Shane Sutton resigns....

Covered in post #13 and #19.

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Cookie opens her mouth - and out comes sense again
« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2016, 12:21:38 am »
It is challenging to promote women's events, but there is a lot that can be done to help to reduce costs.  A good example is using 'piggyback' events where the men's and women's events are held on the same course at the same time.  This requires a course to either be continuous or loops over a particular size such that the women's event can start 10 minutes after the men's event.  This allows many of the overheads to be doubled up (venue hire, static marshals etc.), but does require 1.5x NEG and 2x commissaire.  I've comm'ed at regional events doing this, and it works quite well. I'm also a believer in using men's entries to support women's events until they are big enough to stand alone (no events means no riders, no riders means no events - someone needs to break the stalemate).  There are women's events with 80 rider fields, so female riders definitely exist.

That commissaire was reported; that comment wasn't the worst aspect of that event, but we never heard anything from it. 

On the flip-side, I've met some phenomenal supporters and promoters of women's cycling, and it has come a long way in the last few years.

Piggy backing can work where the course is suitable and there are bodies to help out. We still suffer the 'critical mass' issue and end up with mixed W/V50 races which aren't ideal. The governing bodies are helping with series promotion (and covering NEG/timing costs etc.)

My personal stand is having equal prize money for the TTs as long as there are sufficient riders. For the Scottish 10 champs (which I am organising) I have a total female entry of 35 riders, of which 3 are Juniors. Then again I had 150 entries from men, and many would not even try to get in.

My thought is that with the increase in circuits there will be more interest in 'giving it a go' with Go-race events (of which there was precisely 1 last year in Scotland). We will see most racing move to off road circuits and on-road races will be premium events with cat3+ and large fields/closed roads. More races but fewer on road.

This will be my first year as a newly qualified regional comm. So far I have a couple of 3/4 local races lined up and a Scottish women's series race.

"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Samuel D

Re: Cookie opens her mouth - and out comes sense again
« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2016, 12:31:37 pm »
Imagine what Sutton was like to someone who was an only ok member of the team, or someone who was struggling psychologically.

From here:

"Former BMX world champion Kelvin Batey said he was driven to suicidal thoughts by his "intimidating" experiences with British Cycling and Sutton.

"There was one point where I thought about stepping into the road and ending it all," said the 34-year-old Englishman told BBC Sport.

"That is how bad and how low it got me. Luckily, I had friends and family who pulled me through and positives came from a low point.

"I have never been that low and will never get get that low again.

"That man has got a lot to answer for because I am sure I am not the only person he has affected at such an extreme level."

Re: Cookie opens her mouth - and out comes sense again
« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2016, 02:19:41 pm »

fuaran

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Re: Cookie opens her mouth - and out comes sense again
« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2016, 03:32:30 pm »
Well. BBC and Sky are reporting that Sutton has resigned.
But he is still employed by Team Sky.


mattc

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Re: Cookie opens her mouth - and out comes sense again
« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2016, 10:03:45 am »
Well. BBC and Sky are reporting that Sutton has resigned.
But he is still employed by Team Sky.

I heard on the radio that BC claim they didn't know Sky were also paying him. Bizarre.
Has never ridden RAAM
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Re: Cookie opens her mouth - and out comes sense again
« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2016, 10:49:12 am »
Christ... British Cycling are currently making Chelsea FC look like a model of stability.

Simon Yates's positive test couldn't be timed better.

Hopefully this may create a siege-mentality (as used by Mourinho at Chelsea FC) leading up to Rio, and some useful team-spirit (if they can stay off Twitter long enough).
Some people say I'm self-obsessed but that's enough about them.

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Re: Cookie opens her mouth - and out comes sense again
« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2016, 11:30:04 am »
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Samuel D

Re: Cookie opens her mouth - and out comes sense again
« Reply #41 on: April 29, 2016, 11:32:42 am »
Peter Kenyuck is a great cyclist but he has a big mouth and a history of putting his foot in it.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Cookie opens her mouth - and out comes sense again
« Reply #42 on: April 29, 2016, 01:23:51 pm »
A former pro cyclist known to many here has related an incident in which he heard Sutton refer pejoratively to disabled people.  I am inclined to believe that.
Getting there...

Re: Cookie opens her mouth - and out comes sense again
« Reply #43 on: May 03, 2016, 07:13:18 pm »
I heard Brailsford say on radio this morning the inquiry was going "to get to the bottom of it".  Unfortunate words I thought!

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Cookie opens her mouth - and out comes sense again
« Reply #44 on: October 28, 2016, 07:05:56 pm »
Varnish's complaint has been upheld.

mattc

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Re: Cookie opens her mouth - and out comes sense again
« Reply #45 on: October 28, 2016, 07:16:21 pm »
Crikey.

I read this http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/37804761 , but am not much wiser; does this materially affect anyone??

(Apart from nailing Sutton's career coffin shut. Probably.) Does it benefit Jess at all?

It's a bit disappointing that the BBC page tells us almost nothing about Jess, but lists Sutton's amazing palmares  ::-)
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Cookie opens her mouth - and out comes sense again
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2017, 01:53:32 pm »
Cant imagine she's too happy with the lip service being paid here:
Wales in Open golf and Tour de France talks

She won the womens tour a couple of times, world champs, Olympics, etc, etc

Re: Cookie opens her mouth - and out comes sense again
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2017, 01:57:08 pm »
Allegedly the Boardman Team Carbon frame, sold by Halfords to thousands of Bike To Work commuters, is the same one that Cooke rode in the world championship, although presumably with slightly less horrible decals.

I think Cooke's fame and career suffered somewhat when Victoria Pendleton appeared on the scene.  Cooke was probably the better and tougher rider but Pendleton scrubbed up better for glossy magazines.  Such is rampant sexism...


Following linkified image not quite safe for work, but shows you what VP was willing to do in the name of self-promotion.
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Re: Cookie opens her mouth - and out comes sense again
« Reply #48 on: June 08, 2017, 04:15:03 pm »
I think British Cycling was working very hard to promote their track team as media stars (hence people still ask if you think you're Chris Hoy when you're riding your bike) - Pendleton was a significant part of that. For a time she was as dominant in the track sprint events as Cooke was on the road - she won the only gold available to her at Beijing, but was world champ in the same 3 events as Hoy.  A total of 9 world track titles and 2 Olympic golds, plus a bunch of lesser medals suggests she was pretty good!
Cooke was never part of the BC scene (and indeed claims that they actively hindered her career on many occasions), so didn't have the publicity opportunities that Pendleton had, and womens road cycling at that time was in a mess - if Cooke was at the height of her powers now then her fame and earning potential would be massively greater. She was basically the best woman road cyclist in the world between the years 2003-2009.

PS - has the article been amended? It now links to the report of Cooke's road race gold at the 2008 Olympics.

Re: Cookie opens her mouth - and out comes sense again
« Reply #49 on: June 08, 2017, 04:32:12 pm »
I think British Cycling was working very hard to promote their track team as media stars (hence people still ask if you think you're Chris Hoy when you're riding your bike) - Pendleton was a significant part of that. For a time she was as dominant in the track sprint events as Cooke was on the road - she won the only gold available to her at Beijing, but was world champ in the same 3 events as Hoy.  A total of 9 world track titles and 2 Olympic golds, plus a bunch of lesser medals suggests she was pretty good!
Cooke was never part of the BC scene (and indeed claims that they actively hindered her career on many occasions), so didn't have the publicity opportunities that Pendleton had, and womens road cycling at that time was in a mess - if Cooke was at the height of her powers now then her fame and earning potential would be massively greater. She was basically the best woman road cyclist in the world between the years 2003-2009.

PS - has the article been amended? It now links to the report of Cooke's road race gold at the 2008 Olympics.
The point is *all* it mentions is her road race gold, no mention of her other (many) wins, her sitting as world road champion for several years.
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