Author Topic: Steel or Ti  (Read 17760 times)

fd3

Re: Steel or Ti
« Reply #125 on: May 22, 2020, 08:41:09 am »
^ I think it's the 70s drop bar brake extensions that go from the brake lever across the flat section of the bars.  Because they weren't a tight fir on the brake lever but a tight fit to the bars you couldn't use them to come to a stop, only to reduce speed.
[/I could be wrong]

Re: Steel or Ti
« Reply #126 on: May 22, 2020, 08:52:33 am »
That would be brake levers not shifters, so perhaps not

I think by 'suicide shifters' LMT means down-tube shifters, which of course many of us were using quite happily (me included) before our little snowflake friend was born.  ;)

For me it meant 5 speed, not 11 speed, so shifting gear was far less frequent anyway. Probably for the best that our young friend was not around in those days. Even Di2 is a hardship compared to ETAP it would seem  ;D

Re: Steel or Ti
« Reply #127 on: May 22, 2020, 08:52:37 am »
Steel is definitely better because I love my steel bike. But if you bought me a titanium bike for comparison... I could learn to love that too :)
+1

Re: Steel or Ti
« Reply #128 on: May 22, 2020, 09:17:06 am »
That would be brake levers not shifters, so perhaps not

I think by 'suicide shifters' LMT means down-tube shifters, which of course many of us were using quite happily (me included) before our little snowflake friend was born.  ;)

For me it meant 5 speed, not 11 speed, so shifting gear was far less frequent anyway. Probably for the best that our young friend was not around in those days. Even Di2 is a hardship compared to ETAP it would seem  ;D

I think I have a pair of simplex friction down tube shifters in the garage somewhere.   They were things of beauty.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Steel or Ti
« Reply #129 on: May 22, 2020, 09:25:34 am »
That would be brake levers not shifters, so perhaps not

I think by 'suicide shifters' LMT means down-tube shifters, which of course many of us were using quite happily (me included) before our little snowflake friend was born.  ;)

For me it meant 5 speed, not 11 speed, so shifting gear was far less frequent anyway. Probably for the best that our young friend was not around in those days. Even Di2 is a hardship compared to ETAP it would seem  ;D

I think I have a pair of simplex friction down tube shifters in the garage somewhere.   They were things of beauty.
The ones I had weren't. They used to loosen themselves, which meant "automatically" shifting to a smaller sprocket. Of course, they usually did this going up hill. Fortunately, they could be tightened with a 2p coin, which was a thing you were likely to have in your pocket back in the 80s or even 90s.  :D
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Re: Steel or Ti
« Reply #130 on: May 22, 2020, 09:32:38 am »
Downtube shifters are lovely, especially when indexed.  Snappy, positive shifting and you can even have friction shift if you prang your rear mech.  The only marginally dangerous shifters are stem-mounted ones, which used to pop up (literally) on some cheap "racers" in the 70s and 80s.  They're in a good position to do damage to your nads in a crash,
And Darkness and Decay and the Coronavirus held illimitable dominion over all.

Re: Steel or Ti
« Reply #131 on: May 22, 2020, 01:02:11 pm »
Downtube shifters are lovely, especially when indexed.  Snappy, positive shifting and you can even have friction shift if you prang your rear mech.  The only marginally dangerous shifters are stem-mounted ones, which used to pop up (literally) on some cheap "racers" in the 70s and 80s.  They're in a good position to do damage to your nads in a crash,

Thats what I thought of when I read suicide shifters. Doubt they were any increased risk to rapping your balls off the stem in real terms though.

IanN

  • Voon
Re: Steel or Ti
« Reply #132 on: May 22, 2020, 01:55:57 pm »
Downtube shifters are lovely, especially when indexed.  Snappy, positive shifting and you can even have friction shift if you prang your rear mech.  The only marginally dangerous shifters are stem-mounted ones, which used to pop up (literally) on some cheap "racers" in the 70s and 80s.  They're in a good position to do damage to your nads in a crash,

Yes. The Dura ace 10 speed indexed ones are great. No friction option, though, on the rear shift.
Slippage on friction shift (front) seems to be inevitable, but happens slowly.

I run DT shifters on two bikes because 1. retrogrouch,  2. V-brakes on drop bars and 3. with early arthritis (I think) in my hand it makes shifts easier in the cold. For triples, another advantage is knowing what gear you are in in the dark by lever position

I don't buy the 'suicide' description. If you can't shift safely at that time - don't shift. Think ahead on hills. Simple enough.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Steel or Ti
« Reply #133 on: May 22, 2020, 06:25:39 pm »
From what I remember, using d/t shifters while climbing was never a problem. It was a problem on rough surfaces, which I guess is why the thumbshifter was invented for early mtbs.
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Re: Steel or Ti
« Reply #134 on: May 22, 2020, 06:45:10 pm »
Fewer gears, less propensity to change.  We are spoiled rotten these days.

Anybody remember Shimano's Positron indexed gears in the late 70s?

Re: Steel or Ti
« Reply #135 on: May 22, 2020, 06:47:35 pm »

I run DT shifters on two bikes because 1. retrogrouch,  2. V-brakes on drop bars and 3. with early arthritis (I think) in my hand it makes shifts easier in the cold. For triples, another advantage is knowing what gear you are in in the dark by lever position



Di2 is your friend for cold stiff hands, especially on super long rides.  2009 was the earliest iteration...give it a few years and it'll be retro  ;)

Re: Steel or Ti
« Reply #136 on: May 22, 2020, 07:25:59 pm »
I had poisitron shifters on a flat bared tourer. Not the most accurate shifting experience I have ever had   :)
the slower you go the more you see

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Steel or Ti
« Reply #137 on: May 22, 2020, 08:04:08 pm »
I remember working on Positron bikes back in the 1980s. The shifting wire (not cable) and housing was interesting and inherently had less stretch than a cable. If only they’d designed it for the top end of the market, instead of the bottom, it would have been a hit.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

fd3

Re: Steel or Ti
« Reply #138 on: May 23, 2020, 10:48:29 am »
So if Ti, go really carefully because construction matters.

Well, I have owned 3 ti bikes...one of which was a Pinarello, and the other 2 chinese shite...so I'm not entirely talking out of my arse.  ;D

The problem with recommending bikes is that you never know what somebody else is looking for.
I think construction matters for any frame material and the difference between cheap steel and bespoke steel would be just as big as between CF and properly wrapped CF.

Never accused you of not having an informed opinion.

I think that's the big issue with bike recommendations, too many variables to have a definitive best.  Also you need to consider budget, you afford nice bikes and your shifters probably cost more than any one of my bikes.  If I were to buy a bike on my budget CF would be cheapshite but steel (or Alu) could be decent.
[/I could be wrong]

Re: Steel or Ti
« Reply #139 on: May 23, 2020, 10:57:14 am »
I probably should have been more specific about Ti construction. It needs to be carefully welded with an inert shielding gas gas (usually argon) to protect it from the deleterious effects of oxygen.

On reflection, I think what you said about steel bikes not rusting can be true, provided they are looked after. Whereas, because CF construction is still, in comparison, in its infancy, I'm not sure that there arent issues in even relatively recent CF frames (say 10-15 years) that can be mitigated by maintenance. I'm thinking of debonding and issues with alloys degenerating (the sort of galvanic corrosion that occurs in older CF frames)

TLDR: If I had a 20 year steel frame, I reckon I could make it last another 40. A 20 year old CF? Maybe not.

Re: Steel or Ti
« Reply #140 on: May 23, 2020, 12:17:29 pm »
Reynolds 953 shouldn't reallly rust, although it may get some surface rust when exposed to road salt.

Mind you, I'm not sure bike designers know about things like stress corrosion cracking from chlorides (a huge problem in chemical engineering).  You have to pick the right grade of SS to avoid it.  Maraging stainless steels are generally vulnerable, especially at welds.  And a commuting bike lives in a chloride spray for four months of UK winter.
And Darkness and Decay and the Coronavirus held illimitable dominion over all.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Steel or Ti
« Reply #141 on: May 23, 2020, 12:57:11 pm »
I know for sure that bike designers and even bicycle tubing manufacturers do not understand less common corrosion mechanisms like intergranular corrosion. That mechanism can ‘unglue’ brazed joints for stainless steel tubing in the right conditions (salted roads being one).
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Steel or Ti
« Reply #142 on: May 23, 2020, 01:28:22 pm »
I don't think I've ever bought a bike intending it to last my entire life, and bikes I've sold on were the ones that were uninspiring to ride, including (IIRC) at least 2 CF frames (there might be more.

I sold my Ti Pinarello because it didnt really have a place in my stable...it was quite exciting to ride, but not as exciting as my CF summer bike, and it wasn't practical for a winter/spring bike.


I'm left with 1 Ti, 1 aluminium, and 5 CF. Of these, 3 of the CF bikes are the ones that get ridden most because they are so fun to ride, and not because they are CF.

The one bike I truly hope lasts is a 17 old Trek OCLV frame converted to fixed. It is phenomenally good fun.

Re: Steel or Ti
« Reply #143 on: May 23, 2020, 03:32:03 pm »
I'm left with 1 Ti, 1 aluminium, and 5 CF.


One steel Spa Audax, one cf Dolan Dual, one titanium (TI3AL2.5) from China xacd.
All bikes have similar a riding position and components at contact points.
Most comfortable is the Spa Audax, quickest (to accelerate) is the cf, lightest is the titanium.
Well it would be, wouldn't it; as it has bling Dura Ace wh-7850 wheels* and no mudguards.

*It's amazing what you can pick up for £100 :thumbsup: from someone who doesn't know the true value of
of what he's selling; or is completely loaded and wants to buy the next 'best wheels' he sees.

Re: Steel or Ti
« Reply #144 on: May 23, 2020, 05:31:52 pm »
Just back from a very wet and windy and enjoyable 55km over the campsies on my ti Croix de Fer I chose it today because of the mudguards but I don't think my nice carbon domane would have ridden as nicely.  It would probably have been faster though.

Re: Steel or Ti
« Reply #145 on: May 26, 2020, 01:05:49 pm »
After over 50 years of cycling on steel framed bikes including some years time-trialling on a 753 Bob Jackson, I eventually discovered carbon fibre and thought that could never be beaten.

I then discovered titanium and now hardly ever ride anything else.  Might consider selling some other stuff soon (carbon and steel)