Author Topic: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various  (Read 17500 times)

Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
« on: January 09, 2012, 09:42:15 PM »
I have  just  picked  up a  (working for  now) #2 Pedal Power+ USB charger  that  needs  testing - Friends used  #1  on PBP and  have  now lost  confidence in it's  reliablity as it  failed  unaccountably.  Replaced  by  shop no Q's  asked, we  both  wonder  why. Was it  overvoltaged  by  their SON Dynamo. It  was used  on a tandem, so speeds  will have  been high. Deanos Dahon Recharge failed on him (see  leaving  of  Darlo page  15) http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=51443.210. So  although two different  models, at  least  one  designer  does  not  know how  to make something reliable.
I do know  SON hubs  have  a  very  high open cct voltage and  if  the AC current  drawn as the  battery charges  to  full voltage  drops too low  it could  blow rectifier diodes and  regulators.  A  good  design would have  a shunt  Voltage  limiter. I would  contact  Pedal Power  but the  appear  unhelpful, dealer  only  contact  on their  web-site. I could  construct  an add-on limiter, hi Kim! but don't  wish to add something  un-neccessary.

Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2012, 11:03:16 PM »
Deano's failed due to user error (and poor design). Not actually a fault in the unit.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2012, 11:19:40 PM »
My Dahon Reecharge has worked flawlessly for over 5000 miles, but then again realising that i don't always want to be sending current to it's battery I molished my own switch so I can turn the power to it off and on from the bars. I sometimes turn it on during descents and off when climbing to limit any drag making me (even) slower  :-X
I turn it off at night when I want my dyno light to get all the current (unless the Garmin runs low on batteries and then I can run both but with a slightly less bright light, forward planning by fully charging the Reecharge battery pack and the Garmin during daylight hours prevents me having to do this usually). I'm talking about rides where I am riding through consecutive days and nights here, anything 200k or less the Reecharge starting off fully charged from the mains in the morning is more than enough without doing any dyno charging. It's always nice to know you can charge things if you need to though.

Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2012, 09:16:27 AM »
It's interesting that you've had no problems with your reecharge Feline.  I was on the verge of buying one of these a couple of months ago, but I read so many negative comments on here that I decided to wait until the technology had improved a bit. (Sounds like all I need to do is wire in a switch and be intelligent about when to charge it).   The B+M ewerk seems like a reliable solution but way too spendy for me to justify, especially once the buffer battery is included to the price.

I just want something to keep my Garmin Dakota running through long Audax without having to faf with batteries.  Fortunately the Dakota uses AA's so carrying/buying spares en route is not a problem. I just want reduce hassle/faffage.   I have been wondering if a ewerk could be wired directly into the battery compartment of the Dakota (with the voltage adjusted accordingly) and some NiMH recargables in the battery compartment used as the buffer.  Does anyone with more elecronics nous than me know if this would work??

fboab

  • two bite fulls missing and still just as tasty.
Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2012, 09:57:11 AM »
I have a reecharge, which I blew out by descending like a loon without taking the current into the battery. Kim repaired it for me and it is now working again. Unlike feline, I have not the skillz to molish myself a switch.
It seems to me that everyone who has one, also has dyno lights and it is a major failing in the design not to have an in-line switch. It makes absolute sense to have a 4 way switch: lights/ battery/ both/ neither.

I don't think there's a problem with the device, if you use it as instructed. User error, here, too. It's always going to be difficult to make something that copes with the massively variably output, and I'm not sure that the method they've designed is ideal. Kim has a more technical opinion on this, though.
It's not a peak, it's a plateau

PpPete

  • Somnolent.
Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2012, 11:24:55 AM »
It's interesting that you've had no problems with your reecharge Feline.  I was on the verge of buying one of these a couple of months ago, but I read so many negative comments on here that I decided to wait until the technology had improved a bit. (Sounds like all I need to do is wire in a switch and be intelligent about when to charge it).   The B+M ewerk seems like a reliable solution but way too spendy for me to justify, especially once the buffer battery is included to the price.

I just want something to keep my Garmin Dakota running through long Audax without having to faf with batteries.  Fortunately the Dakota uses AA's so carrying/buying spares en route is not a problem. I just want reduce hassle/faffage.   I have been wondering if a ewerk could be wired directly into the battery compartment of the Dakota (with the voltage adjusted accordingly) and some NiMH recargables in the battery compartment used as the buffer.  Does anyone with more elecronics nous than me know if this would work??

My current (groan) thinking is to get an ewerk from one of the German online vendors (quite a bit cheaper than UK) and a separate Li-Poly battery (the B&M ones look overpriced).   Would have to be one that will both take charge from the ewerk and give it to the Garmin simultaneously.   If I'm right this "should" give me minimum faffage and maximum reliability.

Eddington Number= 70

Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2012, 12:00:59 PM »
It's interesting that you've had no problems with your reecharge Feline.  I was on the verge of buying one of these a couple of months ago, but I read so many negative comments on here that I decided to wait until the technology had improved a bit. (Sounds like all I need to do is wire in a switch and be intelligent about when to charge it).   The B+M ewerk seems like a reliable solution but way too spendy for me to justify, especially once the buffer battery is included to the price.

I just want something to keep my Garmin Dakota running through long Audax without having to faf with batteries.  Fortunately the Dakota uses AA's so carrying/buying spares en route is not a problem. I just want reduce hassle/faffage.   I have been wondering if a ewerk could be wired directly into the battery compartment of the Dakota (with the voltage adjusted accordingly) and some NiMH recargables in the battery compartment used as the buffer.  Does anyone with more elecronics nous than me know if this would work??

My current (groan) thinking is to get an ewerk from one of the German online vendors (quite a bit cheaper than UK) and a separate Li-Poly battery (the B&M ones look overpriced).   Would have to be one that will both take charge from the ewerk and give it to the Garmin simultaneously.   If I'm right this "should" give me minimum faffage and maximum reliability.

That was my approach. E-werk and a generic USB Cache battery. Good for 2x charges of my HTC Desire, and fully recharges off a (summer - no lights) 200k audax.
Quote from: Hodor
Hodor.

tiermat

  • King of the big shiny flange and flashy blu lights
Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2012, 12:12:40 PM »
I feel like Captain Kirk, on a brand new planet every day, a little like King Kong on top of the Empire State

Kim

  • An appetite for the epic, but no real stamina
Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2012, 01:36:18 PM »
I don't think there's a problem with the device, if you use it as instructed. User error, here, too. It's always going to be difficult to make something that copes with the massively variably output, and I'm not sure that the method they've designed is ideal. Kim has a more technical opinion on this, though.

Yes: Technically, it was designed by a numpty.   ;D
This woman knows what she's talking about!

Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2012, 01:42:22 PM »
I don't think there's a problem with the device, if you use it as instructed. User error, here, too. It's always going to be difficult to make something that copes with the massively variably output, and I'm not sure that the method they've designed is ideal. Kim has a more technical opinion on this, though.

Yes: Technically, it was designed by a numpty.   ;D

 ;D
Quote from: Kim
^ This woman knows what she's talking about.

Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2012, 08:16:02 PM »
Agree with Kim: here is  the  email I sent  to PPower unsuprisingly no reply. (yet)
Quote
A friend  of  mine  had  his new  pedal power Super-i-Cable model SIC100 fail when using  it  on Paris  Brest Paris this  year. He  has  a  replacement but is now  worried  about  its  reliability.
In this  instance the  unit  was  used  on a  tandem and connected  to   a SON hub in a  700C wheel. It  would  have  been subjected  to  the  output  generated  for  long periods at speeds of  30-40Kmh and   speeds  of  60+ Kmh  for periods  of about  10-15 minutes
As I am a principal engineer  employed  by a  major TV transmission  company I understand electronic  design. I have  measured  a  SON  hub on a  rolling  road prior  to  designing  my  own LED  lights.  Can you  please  confirm that  your  devices  are  built  with  shunt  AC voltage limiters, or  designed  in such  a  manner as   to clamp the  AC input Voltage to a  level  which will not  cause  damage  to the  rectifiers  or switching regulator when the  internal battery  is  fully  charged under  the above conditions. For  your information any  shunt  limiter  must  be  able  to  dissipate approximately 7 Watts at  20 Volts to avoid  damage. I cannot  see  how  your design could  physically  be  capable  of  this.
I hope  you find  this  information useful.
It  looks  as  if most  of the products  mentioned  in this  thread are not  properly  designed and only  some  may-be. Automatic relay disconnect  on full charge or  some  sort  of  shunt  limiter (which would mean a big  heatsink) is  the only  sure way  - a  SON hub outputs about  70-80 Volts when lightly  loaded at  high speed. Kim could  you  PM me I have  some  ideas.

Aushiker

  • Cyclist, pedestrian, motorist and bushwalker, part
    • Aushiker: Bicycling and Hiking in Western Australia
Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2012, 06:59:07 AM »
I have  just  picked  up a  (working for  now) #2 Pedal Power+ USB charger  that  needs  testing - Friends used  #1  on PBP and  have  now lost  confidence in it's  reliablity as it  failed  unaccountably.  .... I would  contact  Pedal Power  but the  appear  unhelpful, dealer  only  contact  on their  web-site. I could  construct  an add-on limiter, hi Kim! but don't  wish to add something  un-neccessary.

Bit worrying hearing this as I have recently purchased a PedalPower Super-i-Cable.  Only used it on a four day ride so far and that as fine.

With respect to contacting PedalPower I have emailed them in the recent past and got a response okay.  Maybe worth just contacting them anyway? They give their email address as sales@pedalpower.com.au.  The form on the contact page is for new dealer enquiries only, but they provide the email address for other contact.

Regards
Andrew

Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2012, 07:23:41 AM »
Deano's failed due to user error (and poor design). Not actually a fault in the unit.

And to be fair to Dahon, they have replaced the regulator (it was waiting for me when I arrived in Dubai). They didn't respond to my comments about the design, however.

Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2012, 08:56:38 AM »
Just  had  a  reply  form Pedal Power  :thumbsup:   The designer  has given me  the  technical low  down. Unit  is A.O.K. Now  you know  what  to buy

Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2012, 10:36:31 AM »
is it fair to say that the B+M ewerk is the only reliable unit out there? (Based on the fact that I've never heard of anyone with a broken ewerk)


Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2012, 11:13:33 AM »
That  is  speculation - not  statistics. I was  told  by  Neil of  PedalPower that  they  have  only  had  two failures  and  both were manufacturing  defects
ICBA to contact  B+M. They  may  not  be  so forth-coming

Aushiker

  • Cyclist, pedestrian, motorist and bushwalker, part
    • Aushiker: Bicycling and Hiking in Western Australia
Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2012, 11:30:01 AM »
Just  had  a  reply  form Pedal Power  :thumbsup:   The designer  has given me  the  technical low  down. Unit  is A.O.K. Now  you know  what  to buy

Good to hear :)

Andrew

Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2012, 11:07:22 PM »
Send me  your pedal powers eWerks and Dahon recharge for  testing to... 100 KP hour ( I have  to  put the top cover  on for that) :)
or  1001 thing to do with a food processor
http://youtu.be/ypPDhNUsGUc

Aushiker

  • Cyclist, pedestrian, motorist and bushwalker, part
    • Aushiker: Bicycling and Hiking in Western Australia
Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2012, 11:21:03 PM »
Send me  your pedal powers eWerks and Dahon recharge for  testing to... 100 KP hour ( I have  to  put the top cover  on for that) :)
or  1001 thing to do with a food processor
http://youtu.be/ypPDhNUsGUc

That is a great jury rig you have there.

Andrew

Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2012, 11:32:25 PM »
Dan, on the Thorn forum has installed Tout Terrain's Plug 2 but doesn't appear to have used it on an extended tour yet. http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3802.0
Not fast & rarely furious

tweeting occasional in(s)anities as andrewxclark

Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2012, 08:14:08 AM »
Just  had  a  reply  form Pedal Power  :thumbsup:   The designer  has given me  the  technical low  down. Unit  is A.O.K. Now  you know  what  to buy

Good to hear :)

Andrew

They would say that tho,  wouldn't they?


Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2012, 08:17:28 AM »
Quote
"Through our P.A.T. (Power Amplification Technology) system, that is optionally used, the power output of the Plug II can be optimized. This is particularly useful for users of smart phones or rechargeable batteries that want to maximize their power output on the road. Concealed, the extra power module is attached in the fork tube, so there are no other cables necessary outside."

From Tout  Terrain. I  am not  impressed - Technobabble.  just  means it's  got  an efficent converter Watts  is  Watts -  How  much power you have  to  play with  depends  on  on your  dynamo and  how  fast  you  are  riding  ;)

The  Pedal Power+ post  mortem is  going  well, To  cut  a long  story  short  the unit  has  got  a faulty lead, Nothing gone  wrong  with  the  electrickery. I  am impressed  with  the suport - they  were  also very  keen to establish what/why there is a problem.

Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2012, 08:17:58 AM »
That  is  speculation - not  statistics.

Yes, I know.

I was asking (in a round about way admittedly) if anyone had had any bad experiences with the ewerk.


Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2012, 08:32:37 AM »
Quote
Quote from: Sleepy on Yesterday at 11:13:33 AM

    That  is  speculation - not  statistics.


Yes, I know.

I was asking (in a round about way admittedly) if anyone had had any bad experiences with the ewerk.

I think we  need  a  survey.  Problem is  it's  complicated, For example Dahon may  sell re-charges by  the  10,000's, Pedal power  by the 1000's and others  100's We  know the Dahon re-charge is poorly designed, and fails when used with  high power generators  at  high  speed. The  others apart  from pedal power, don't  know for  sure  - I guess most quality kit will have a similar  protection circuit  to the one PP use.  We  need  to factor  for  type  of  use and  generator as well and  number of units

How  many different  flavours  are  out  there? can we  start with  a  list...

Dahon ReCharge, Pedal Power, eWerk, Tout  Terrain......

Re: Dynamo Powered rechargers Various
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2012, 08:39:59 AM »
Quote
    Quote from: Sleepy on Yesterday at 08:56:38 AM

        Just  had  a  reply  form Pedal Power  :thumbsup:   The designer  has given me  the  technical low  down. Unit  is A.O.K. Now  you know  what  to buy


    Good to hear :)

    Andrew


They would say that tho,  wouldn't they?

Yes  but  would  you  know  what  they  were talking  about?

Admittedly, no I wouldn't.

So the PP+ has over voltage protection then? Is that what they're saying? 

I'm just looking for a recharger solution and not sure where to splash my cash. I was on the verge of clicking buy on a Dahon unit just before Christmas, but read too many bad experiences and decided not to.   As for the other units, I've heard about bad experiences for all of them except the ewerk.  I realise any piece of electronics kit can suffer one off failures and internet forums are a good (bad?) way of publicising that.  But it seems the Dahon unit has an inherent design fault (no over voltage protection for when the charge is going nowhere) and that makes me more suspicious of the others.

It will be interesting to see how you get on with your food processor rig sleepy.