Author Topic: Crank option for White Industries Eno Eccentric hub on 130mm Road frame  (Read 1447 times)

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  • Mediocre polyglot.Scoutmaster and nudist
Been pondering a new crankset for the fixie. Its a 2004 Trek OCLV race frame with a WI Eccentric hub. Currently using an old square taper Record double chainset. (can't remember what size BB). The hub is 47.5mm chainline which is supposed to match outer ring on double. But if I do that the arms foul the chainstays.

I've been using it with a velosolo ring mounted on the inner position for years. Its OK, but....it looks shit, and the 5th bolt (into back of crankarm) is a bit of bodgery. Chainline is quite good, but I wouldn't mind a neater option.

Any thoughts, please?

Re: Crank option for White Industries Eno Eccentric hub on 130mm Road frame
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2020, 06:35:54 pm »
Don't know if it would match - and needs it's own BB, which isn't actually sealed, but

https://www.condorcycles.com/products/campagnolo-pista-track-chainset



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  • Mediocre polyglot.Scoutmaster and nudist
Re: Crank option for White Industries Eno Eccentric hub on 130mm Road frame
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2020, 06:49:09 pm »
ISO Square taper, not proprietory I think.

Did wonder about a Sugino 75. Just wondering if anyone has any suggestions from their or others experience

Re: Crank option for White Industries Eno Eccentric hub on 130mm Road frame
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2020, 10:42:35 am »
I'm sure that we could probably measure a variety of square taper fixie bikes if we knew what to measure. Your post says that the crank arms foul on the chain stays if you put a chainring on the outer position, so you have it on the inner - is that a different crankset or BB or something? What BB is your crank supposed to run in order to get a good chainline (most of the single speed ones advertise what BB length they need, though whether that number is trustworthy is another question)?
I have a stronglight one that I bought after some discussion on this thread: https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=109359.0

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  • Mediocre polyglot.Scoutmaster and nudist
Re: Crank option for White Industries Eno Eccentric hub on 130mm Road frame
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2020, 11:07:02 am »
Track bike spacing is 120mm. Road bike 130mm....hence fouling if I stick a track crank on.

Hub chainline is 47.5mm. Front end needs to match this via choosing appropriate axle length.

JonB

  • Granny Ring ... Yes Please!
Re: Crank option for White Industries Eno Eccentric hub on 130mm Road frame
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2020, 12:20:13 pm »
The velodrome shop gives useful on the chainline associated with different components https://www.velodrome.shop/index.php?p=home

I've got the Stronglight 2000 crankset on a 107mm BB which gives a 42mm chainline. If you put this with anything between 117-119 this should get you close to 47.5mm chainline (Velo solo have a 118 which would be bang on).  The only thing I would say about the Stronglight is that I've not been overly impressed with it's roundness, it improved marginally when I fitted a velo solo chainring but the only way I really fixed it was to stop thinking about it (it's not really that bad, I just got a bit fixated on it at one point). I do have a Miche primato crank which I understand are good but I've never fitted it, I believe that the accompanying Miche BB allows the chainline to be adjusted. I have heard good things about these and they also measure at 42mm on a standard 107mm BB. 

Chris N

Re: Crank option for White Industries Eno Eccentric hub on 130mm Road frame
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2020, 01:06:15 pm »
I use a Shimano Ultegra HTII compact double crank with the ring in the outside with my Goldtec hub for a 46mm chain line on one bike. No problem with clearance even on a frame designed for disc brakes and 45mm tyres.

Alfine crank (FC-S501?) is pretty much the same, I think.

Re: Crank option for White Industries Eno Eccentric hub on 130mm Road frame
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2020, 02:55:27 pm »
Try these people https://www.velodrome.shop/track-chainsets/
Or look at Spa cycles' range (their own and Stronglight).

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  • Mediocre polyglot.Scoutmaster and nudist
Re: Crank option for White Industries Eno Eccentric hub on 130mm Road frame
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2020, 06:51:44 pm »
I use a Shimano Ultegra HTII compact double crank with the ring in the outside with my Goldtec hub for a 46mm chain line on one bike. No problem with clearance even on a frame designed for disc brakes and 45mm tyres.

Alfine crank (FC-S501?) is pretty much the same, I think.

That is 1.5mm out with a system that cannot be shifted with spacers on the BB

Chris N

Re: Crank option for White Industries Eno Eccentric hub on 130mm Road frame
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2020, 06:57:48 pm »
I wouldn’t be too worried about 1.5 mm misalignment, but then I use 3/32” rings and cogs with 8 speed chain. You could quite easily space the ring out from the crank to get the chain line you want.

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  • Mediocre polyglot.Scoutmaster and nudist
Re: Crank option for White Industries Eno Eccentric hub on 130mm Road frame
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2020, 07:15:32 pm »
I'm not listening to you. You are a maniac.

You use standard tyres on standard rims, set up as tubeless  ;D

Chris N

Re: Crank option for White Industries Eno Eccentric hub on 130mm Road frame
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2020, 07:29:45 pm »
And a sociopath, if I remember your diagnosis correctly. :thumbsup:

(Actually, all of my rims and tyres are designed to be tubeless.  Now, at least.)

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Crank option for White Industries Eno Eccentric hub on 130mm Road frame
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2020, 07:32:21 pm »
jis bottom brackets work with italian square taper cranks too, only the cranks will sit 1mm out (don't go as deep onto the taper). my retro bike has late 80ies ofmega super competizione cranks (a copy of campag record of the same era), it requires 118mm bb (i use jis), outer chainring is at 47.7mm from centreline, crank arm clearance from the chainstays ~9mm, inner chainring from a chainstay - 3mm.

a similar setup would work (except i wouldn't want to use a square taper bb on a "proper" bike, but that is _my_ problem haha..)

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  • Mediocre polyglot.Scoutmaster and nudist
Re: Crank option for White Industries Eno Eccentric hub on 130mm Road frame
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2020, 07:49:37 pm »
And a sociopath, if I remember your diagnosis correctly. :thumbsup:

And IIRC you went on to confirm the diagnosis with the purchase of a recumbent...

Re: Crank option for White Industries Eno Eccentric hub on 130mm Road frame
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2020, 05:54:06 pm »
from the 'bolt in back of crank' remark I take it that the 'old record' chainset is a C-record one?  Depending on the vintage of this chainset it could have a really short spindle in the BB and there are not many choices for alternative cranks that fit it.

If the BB spindle has a reasonable length to it, it may be possible to use a ST crank which has the big ring bolted to the inside of the spider. Mavic used to make a crank like this and Brompton still do; no spider arm clearance issues are likely provided the chainlines work out OK.

Spider arm clearance can always be adjusted on a repurposed road double; provided you always use bolts that are nice and tight you don't need shoulders for the inner ring to sit on (so they can be chopped off) and it is likewise possible to counterbore the spider arms so that they will accept flush chainring bolts. Neither thing prevents use of two chainrings with the same cranks if you change your mind subsequently.

Do check this to be sure but IIRC even the current campag pista chainset and BB are hangovers from a previous era, in that they use a spindle length and taper format that was effectively a rehash of Campag Nuovo Record era stuff.

FWIW I'd get some cranks you like the look of, modify them to give the extra clearance you need, if you need it, and then get a BB to suit. If needs be the chainline can be adjusted using spacers on the chainring or the BB where it fits in the frame.

cheers

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Re: Crank option for White Industries Eno Eccentric hub on 130mm Road frame
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2020, 06:15:27 pm »
Thanks, Brucey.

Its a 2005ish Record c/set. Four conventional bolts and then one that goes into back of crank. Yes, I know I can space BB, and IIRC I already have slightly to get a perfect chainline. Obviously spacing chainring would move spider nearer to stays and worsen the clearance.

I think I've got a few chainsets in the cupboard including a Stronglight Track 2000. Might stick an 118mm BB in and have a play. It isn't desperate...but the bike rides so well and fluidly that it grates to have one elemnt that isn't quite right.

guidon

  • formerly known as cyclone
Re: Crank option for White Industries Eno Eccentric hub on 130mm Road frame
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2020, 11:14:38 pm »
Wouldn't spacing the chainring move the ring not the spider???  ???

Chris N

Re: Crank option for White Industries Eno Eccentric hub on 130mm Road frame
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2020, 09:29:18 am »
If you move the chainring out you have to move the cranks back in to regain the correct chainline.  If the crank touches the frame then moving the chainring out will only make this worse.  I think?

Chris N

Re: Crank option for White Industries Eno Eccentric hub on 130mm Road frame
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2020, 09:29:45 am »
And IIRC you went on to confirm the diagnosis with the purchase of a recumbent...

Try everything once. :thumbsup:

Re: Crank option for White Industries Eno Eccentric hub on 130mm Road frame
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2020, 10:10:13 pm »
Spa Cycles XD2 (unbranded Sugino) on a 110mm JIS BB is a good match, in theory (see below).  You must get the double version (and single chainring bolts, obvs). 

I can't emphasise this enough: choosing components based on chainline specs is a mug's game if your frame is not straight.  A modern Taiwanese frame might be spot in, but your average British-built vintage steel frame can easily be 4mm off at the rear triangle, which is like using a 102 or 118mm BB by mistake.  Be prepared to buy another BB after test fitting it and checking strightness with a 24" steel rule.  You have to be millimetre-perfect to avoid lopsided sprocket wear and a crackly chain.
And Darkness and Decay and the Coronavirus held illimitable dominion over all.

Re: Crank option for White Industries Eno Eccentric hub on 130mm Road frame
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2020, 10:28:34 pm »
Spa Cycles XD2 (unbranded Sugino) on a 110mm JIS BB is a good match, in theory (see below).  You must get the double version (and single chainring bolts, obvs). 

I can't emphasise this enough: choosing components based on chainline specs is a mug's game if your frame is not straight.  A modern Taiwanese frame might be spot in, but your average British-built vintage steel frame can easily be 4mm off at the rear triangle, which is like using a 102 or 118mm BB by mistake.  Be prepared to buy another BB after test fitting it and checking strightness with a 24" steel rule.  You have to be millimetre-perfect to avoid lopsided sprocket wear and a crackly chain.

Completely off topic, but this made me smile.

My, deceased, father in law used to have an interesting line in descriptive language that h applies to Japanese built Kawasaki. Meanwhile, he kept an oil tray under his British built Velocette...