Author Topic: MH370 missing  (Read 67769 times)

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
MH370 missing
« on: 10 March, 2014, 09:56:25 am »
My parents came through Kuala Lumpur airport just before the plane went missing. Curiously this was the only airport security that my father's metal knee did not set off the alarms.

 <tinfoilhat>That does make you wonder whether screening had been disabled for a while to allow something to be taken on board</tinfolhat>

"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #1 on: 10 March, 2014, 09:59:16 am »
My father, a metallurgist and aero engine expert, who has been involved in testing and crash investigation, regards this incident as very odd.  From someone with such a wealth of experience in this area, I take that to mean this is very very odd indeed.
Getting there...

Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #2 on: 10 March, 2014, 10:07:31 am »
It's not likely to be another Comet incident with the plane spontaneous disintegrating mid air. If 777s were prone to that it would have happened already as they have been in service for a long time now and flown millions of miles. Looks like terrorism or pilot error (like Air France 447). Must be heart breaking for friends and relatives who are just waiting.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #3 on: 10 March, 2014, 12:40:12 pm »
The signs point to terrorism. Folk travelling on fake passports. Lax security. High altitude explosion.
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #4 on: 10 March, 2014, 12:50:54 pm »
Weird that no ones claimed it though.
The passport thing could be a red herring as it seems when an Air India flight crashed in 2010 they found that 10 of the passengers were travelling on false or stolen passports but that crash wasn't terrorism.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #5 on: 10 March, 2014, 12:54:58 pm »
What surprises me looking at the projected route is that it was ever off radar. I would have thought that all of that route would have been covered by military radar at least but apparently not.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #6 on: 10 March, 2014, 03:22:53 pm »
Experts have expressed surprise that the authorities involved haven't requested radar records from any military vessels in the area.

I suspect plain incompetence explains that.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #7 on: 10 March, 2014, 04:15:55 pm »
The passports used that were stolen were stolen years ago, and were on Interpol records as such. That may - or more likely, may not - have some relevance. Terrorism is one of many equally remote possibilities; if terrorism, why a Malaysian aeroplane? Why no claim? In general, terrorism events have the purpose of publicising the terrorists' cause, and the choice of terror act has some logical link to that cause. There are disgruntled people in Malaysia, but there are anywhere. Disgruntled enough to bring down an aeroplane? Perhaps it's related to the recent atrocities in China - but then why not a Chinese aircraft?

There have been instances of aircraft disintegrating in flight without terrorism being involved - the two most recently famous being the TWA Boeing 747 in 1996 that exploded over the Atlantic near New York and the Air France A330 that crashed into the South Atlantic in 2009. It took four years to determine ( and then arguably not conclusively) the cause of the TWA accident, and three years to get the final report on AF447 (two years just to find the 'black boxes').

A question that will be prevalent in the investigators' minds will be why, in this age of interconnected everything, the datalinking between the aircraft and the ground wasn't fast, detailed, or robust enough to show what happened, even if they could not show why. There should be no need for 'black boxes' these days. All modern aircraft are capable of datalinking their flight and system details to their operators to some degree - that's how flight status websites work, using the public part of that data.

So, yes, this is odd. And there should be much more known about it than there is. However, even when the black boxes are found and the information therein is decoded, it'll likely be quite some time before a comprehensive report is available.

Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #8 on: 10 March, 2014, 08:38:43 pm »
Tim, I thought that the black boxes have transponders. Given the sensitivity of modern comms equipment why no signal?
Get a bicycle. You will never regret it, if you live- Mark Twain

Rhys W

  • I'm single, bilingual
    • Cardiff Ajax
Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #9 on: 10 March, 2014, 08:56:22 pm »
I heard on the news this evening that the travel agent who sold the tickets to the two criminals on stolen passports has said that they weren't bothered which flight they got, just the cheapest ones to Europe (or roughly the right part of Europe anyway). If you were going to blow up a plane, I think you'd decide which one first.

My money's on pilot suicide. It's been hushed up before.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #10 on: 10 March, 2014, 09:17:53 pm »
Disagree. If you aren't intending to get out of a plane, it matters not where it goes.
It does seem significant to me that the two chaps with stolen passports seemed to be in this together.
Pilots don't work alone and planes don't just drop 6 miles so I don't buy the pilot suicide line.
But this is all speculation.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #11 on: 10 March, 2014, 09:25:19 pm »
Tim, I guess that these rare unexplained occurrences (like the BA jet with frozen fuel pipes that flopped at Heathrow) don't sit comfortably with you, so you have my best wishes. I hope there is an explanation soon.

J
It is simpler than it looks.

Euan Uzami

Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #12 on: 10 March, 2014, 10:14:39 pm »
Pretty far fetched I know but one other possibility is it could be a death-faking exercise. Parachutes might have been involved and they're letting the world think it's crashed.
There was that bloke that got "lost" in a canoe and turned up in south America and was then found to have massive debts or something. Could be like that but on a mass scale.

Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #13 on: 10 March, 2014, 10:23:48 pm »
The dodgy passports thing doesn't exactly say much about how effective pre-boarding controls are in that part of the world - two Asian guys rock up to passport control and present documents with very European names, you'd think someone would go "hang on a second, what's wrong with this picture?"

According to Interpol, it appears that they weren't the only ones on that flight:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/09/uk-malaysia-crash-interpol-idUKBREA280LE20140309

And it seems to be a pretty routine activity:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/10/uk-malaysiaairlines-flight-idUKBREA2701C20140310

Quote
A European diplomat in Kuala Lumpur cautioned that the Malaysian capital was an Asian hub for illegal migrants, many of whom used false documents and complex routes including via Beijing or West Africa to reach a final destination in Europe.

"You shouldn't automatically think that the fact there were two people on the plane with false passports had anything to do with the disappearance of the plane," the diplomat said.

"The more you know about the role of Kuala Lumpur in this chain, the more doubtful you are of the chances of a linkage."

A Thai travel agent who arranged the tickets for the two passengers using the stolen passports said she had booked them on the flight via Beijing because they were the cheapest tickets, the Financial Times reported.

The travel agent in the resort of Pattaya said an Iranian business contact she knew only as "Mr Ali" had asked her to book tickets for the two men on March 1.

She had initially booked them on other airlines but those reservations expired and on March 6, Mr Ali had asked her to book them again. She told the newspaper she did not think Mr Ali, who paid her in cash and booked tickets with her regularly, was linked to terrorism.
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #14 on: 10 March, 2014, 10:38:40 pm »
Pretty far fetched I know but one other possibility is it could be a death-faking exercise. Parachutes might have been involved and they're letting the world think it's crashed.
There was that bloke that got "lost" in a canoe and turned up in south America and was then found to have massive debts or something. Could be like that but on a mass scale.

Yeah, very far fetched. When people do a Reggie Perrin, they tend not to drag an entire planeload of other people into it. And I don't believe you can open the doors if the cabin air pressure is greater than outside.

You might just as well have invoked the History Channel guy with the weird hair...
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

Eccentrica Gallumbits

  • Rock 'n' roll and brew, rock 'n' roll and brew...
Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #15 on: 10 March, 2014, 10:41:36 pm »
Pretty far fetched I know but one other possibility is it could be a death-faking exercise. Parachutes might have been involved and they're letting the world think it's crashed.
There was that bloke that got "lost" in a canoe and turned up in south America and was then found to have massive debts or something. Could be like that but on a mass scale.
That's even more far-fetched than the current favourite theory we came up with at work in the two hours our computers were down today.
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My feminist marxist dialectic brings all the boys to the yard.


Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #16 on: 10 March, 2014, 10:47:09 pm »
Pretty far fetched I know but one other possibility is it could be a death-faking exercise. Parachutes might have been involved and they're letting the world think it's crashed.
There was that bloke that got "lost" in a canoe and turned up in south America and was then found to have massive debts or something. Could be like that but on a mass scale.
That's even more far-fetched than the current favourite theory we came up with at work in the two hours our computers were down today.
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #17 on: 10 March, 2014, 10:49:08 pm »
How long before we get the "abducted by aliens" theory?  :)

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #18 on: 10 March, 2014, 10:56:25 pm »
Who knows.

Meanwhile, in other news, there are 239 people missing, hundreds of families and friends left in limbo.
It is simpler than it looks.

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #19 on: 10 March, 2014, 11:11:53 pm »
How long before we get the "abducted by aliens" theory?  :)

Already done - try http://www.naturalnews.com/044244_Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_370_vanished.html#ixzz2vZVXpJzn for your daily dose of aluminium poisoning.
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

tiermat

  • According to Jane, I'm a Unisex SpaceAdmin
Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #20 on: 11 March, 2014, 09:34:02 am »
Pretty far fetched I know but one other possibility is it could be a death-faking exercise. Parachutes might have been involved and they're letting the world think it's crashed.
There was that bloke that got "lost" in a canoe and turned up in south America and was then found to have massive debts or something. Could be like that but on a mass scale.
That's even more far-fetched than the current favourite theory we came up with at work in the two hours our computers were down today.
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

My thoughts exactly! The only one that could reach up that far!

As far as the parachutes theory goes, it's a non-starter, for a start there are non available on commercial flights.

Secondly, you open the door/blow a hole in the side of the plane you are going out of that hole so fast you'll probably be knocked unconscious so pulling the cord wouldn't be anywhere in your (very short) future.

I agree with others, there is too many unknowns with this, but that does not, necessarily, mean that something nasty is afoot, it might just be general incompetence!
I feel like Captain Kirk, on a brand new planet every day, a little like King Kong on top of the Empire State

Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #21 on: 11 March, 2014, 10:07:50 am »
Massive, system electrical failure.

No power --> no signals

No power --> no control

Plane glides down to the sea, cause the pilots are doing their best with what control they have. Doesn't hit very hard, so not a major breakup, no oil slick to speak of, comparatively little debris. However I'd expect some sort of EPRIB system to be activated - seems odd that nothing has been detected.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

ian

Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #22 on: 11 March, 2014, 10:12:52 am »
To be honest, having flown probably a gazillion times over the years (I've never counted, but I've done more air miles than most aubergines), I'm surprised by the lack of problems. It's not like you can get out and give the plane a kick if there's a problem. Given the unreliability of the average home computer, or even bicycle, that says something about the reliability of airplanes and the processes that keep them in the air. It something mechanically or electronically calamitously fails at 10,000 metres there's not a lot of places to go other than down. Gravity is non-negotiable. I'm pretty sure no one wants to be left standing on the runway wondering where the spare bolt they have in hand was supposed to go.

But accidents do happen. Nothing is 100%.

I too am a bit shocked and surprised that in this era of connectivity, when Airbuses probably have their own Facebook pages and the NSA knows better than I do where I left my iPhone, that a plane could be so easily misplaced.

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #23 on: 11 March, 2014, 10:17:57 am »
Tim, I thought that the black boxes have transponders. Given the sensitivity of modern comms equipment why no signal?

They have to be in reasonable condition, and you have to be looking in the right place. Neither is a given.

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #24 on: 11 March, 2014, 10:20:43 am »
Disagree. If you aren't intending to get out of a plane, it matters not where it goes.
It does seem significant to me that the two chaps with stolen passports seemed to be in this together.
Pilots don't work alone and planes don't just drop 6 miles so I don't buy the pilot suicide line.
But this is all speculation.

It has happened before - Egyptair. The captain (I think) waited till the First Officer was out of the flight deck, then locked him out, then stuck the aeroplane on its nose and hit the ground going very fast indeed. Somewhat unconventional, but effective - if very selfish.