Author Topic: Base training  (Read 169422 times)

S2L

Re: Base training
« Reply #1825 on: March 05, 2020, 12:57:08 pm »
OK,

Being skint, so looking at 0% purchase options... I can maybe afford Stages Left only or Garmin Vector, but the latter seems to be crap... would you recommend Stages?

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: Base training
« Reply #1826 on: March 05, 2020, 01:10:23 pm »
Have you looked into a wheel with an inbuilt PM i.e. a powertap hub as an alternative? You might be pleasantly surprised.

Avoid the garmin pedals, my mate had them and she said they were shit.
YACF touring/audax bargain basement:
https://bit.ly/2Xg8pRD



Ban cars.

S2L

Re: Base training
« Reply #1827 on: March 05, 2020, 01:14:29 pm »
Have you looked into a wheel with an inbuilt PM i.e. a powertap hub as an alternative? You might be pleasantly surprised.

Avoid the garmin pedals, my mate had them and she said they were shit.

I used to build wheels with Powertap... as a hub is a Novatec, so not very good in terms of bearing life, freehub alloy and pawls engagement, mine is a Hope RS, a lot better. I kind of like the Stages idea, easy enough to remove in 2 minutes if not needed

Re: Base training
« Reply #1828 on: March 05, 2020, 01:16:34 pm »
It depends what you want it for, how many bikes you want to use it on, what pedals you use, and other factors

Best thing is to read DC Rainmaker's power meter summary and get the strengths and limitations of each. 

For me, Stages is a good option.  I have two of them, which get shared between three bikes.  Ideally I'd buy a third one but it's only five minutes to swap them over.  Garmin pedals wouldn't work as I don't use that pedal / cleat system. 

4iiii is a slightly cheaper alternative to Stages, and there are other cheaper options.  I've also got a Powertap Powercal (heart rate strap that gives power readings) which would be fine for much of my usage which is about pacing the start of longer rides.  I got my first Stages before I got the PowerCal, otherwise I might not have bothered with Stages at all.  But it would be no good for short interval training.   

S2L

Re: Base training
« Reply #1829 on: March 05, 2020, 01:18:04 pm »
But it would be no good for short interval training.

What does it mean?

Re: Base training
« Reply #1830 on: March 05, 2020, 01:48:49 pm »
It gives a good view of average power over a long period but it doesn't respond very quickly to changes in effort 

Re: Base training
« Reply #1831 on: March 05, 2020, 02:00:26 pm »
The Garmin pedals are now on their 3rd version - the first 2 had their issues but the 3rd seem to be a bit more stable.
The pedals that most recommend are the Assioma ones. All the pedal systems use a look cleat (or something pretty close - the Powertap ones I have are slightly different ans therefore proprietory), so you have to be happy with that cleat system.

DCRainmaker is the oracle, and not much has changed recently, so his reviews are good. If you would prefer video reviews, check out the GPLama youtube channel.

S2L

Re: Base training
« Reply #1832 on: March 05, 2020, 02:19:44 pm »
The Garmin pedals are now on their 3rd version - the first 2 had their issues but the 3rd seem to be a bit more stable.
The pedals that most recommend are the Assioma ones. All the pedal systems use a look cleat (or something pretty close - the Powertap ones I have are slightly different ans therefore proprietory), so you have to be happy with that cleat system.

DCRainmaker is the oracle, and not much has changed recently, so his reviews are good. If you would prefer video reviews, check out the GPLama youtube channel.

THing is I use a mix of SPD and SPD SL, adding a new standard would mean new padals or more shoes, either way unnecessary hassle.
I think the crank based system is probably the simplest for me

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #1833 on: March 05, 2020, 02:41:21 pm »
I’m using dual sided stages and am happy with the ability to use SPDs

Re: Base training
« Reply #1834 on: March 05, 2020, 02:54:04 pm »
Talking of data, and those interested in it, https://intervals.icu/ is worth a look (a better/more functional version of Elevate) if you've not yet seen it.

Plus the fella behind it, David Tinker, is very open to user input.  :thumbsup:

Thanks for that.

S2L

Re: Base training
« Reply #1835 on: March 05, 2020, 02:54:47 pm »
Ordered on 0% finance....  ;D ;D

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Base training
« Reply #1836 on: March 05, 2020, 04:36:29 pm »
stages is ok, i've done a few tests against the neo 2t and assioma duo pedals, they all transmit pretty similar readings. big step up from using vam calculations. it took me about a year to get used to it (i.e. to guess my wattage without looking).

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #1837 on: March 05, 2020, 05:01:42 pm »
I should do some training.

Phil W

Re: Base training
« Reply #1838 on: March 05, 2020, 05:01:59 pm »
Yeah, cutting down on hard efforts really seems to set me back.
I stopped intensity in October because of a niggling mystery injury. The injury is still there, and while I can do low intensity stuff higher up hurts, so my FTP will be down massively. I'll be talking to the physio about whether it's worth stopping riding completely for a month or 2 and focusing on gym work to try to fix me - I suspect that will basically wreck any chance of racing the TTT at Silverstone this June. :(

I took a break from the turbo over the summer and a drop in outdoor cycling in autumn due to holiday. First few weeks back hitting the higher intensities was nigh on impossible or at least I wasn’t prepared to do it. More recent workouts I’m sitting 94-98% of my max HR during the intervals. It is why the preparation and base periods are well worth doing if you’ve had a break. They get you ready for the much harder efforts to come.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1839 on: March 05, 2020, 05:10:58 pm »
I didn't do a lot last Autumn - by which I really mean from 1 August last year when I dropped out of the TCR until this Monday, when I finally got into training again - so not much more than commuting for about 7 months (I hadn't realised it was quite so long). 

My fitness has drifted a bit, but not a massive amount, but I really couldn't hang in very long at the sharp end of a ramp test.  Therefore it has given me some low FTP readings and I have had to up the workouts by 10% to get something reasonably worthwhile. 

Really I should try doing a different test, but don't fancy 20 minutes on turbo somehow.  I might be up for 8 minutes in Richmond Park. 

Zed43

  • prefers UK hills over Dutch mountains
Re: Base training
« Reply #1840 on: March 05, 2020, 06:09:05 pm »
The Garmin pedals are now on their 3rd version - the first 2 had their issues but the 3rd seem to be a bit more stable.
As the owner of a pair of Garmin Vector3 pedals I highly recommend you stay the fuck away from them. I have the improved battery doors and they are still unreliable as heck.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #1841 on: March 05, 2020, 08:39:20 pm »
I did train. 6x6m.

Been a bad start to the year. Two colds in January left me with a lingering cough which is still with me and it’s been irritating me on the turbo. I’ve been prescribed a steroid nasal spray which seems to be slowly helping. Or I’m just improving. Anyway tonight was better than last time I trained. FTP manually set to 215W for now.

rob

Re: Base training
« Reply #1842 on: March 05, 2020, 08:47:22 pm »
I’ve managed to clock 2000 miles by the end of Feb, just counting road rides.  It’s been roughly 3 turbos a week totalling 4hrs.  Weekend rides are much hillier than the past as I’m changing direction from TTs.  I have managed to be quite consistent and reasonably happy but my motivation has come and gone.  Road distances increase during March and April.  I think real life might get in the way a bit in the next few months but we’ll see.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1843 on: March 05, 2020, 08:55:39 pm »
The Garmin pedals are now on their 3rd version - the first 2 had their issues but the 3rd seem to be a bit more stable.
The pedals that most recommend are the Assioma ones. All the pedal systems use a look cleat (or something pretty close - the Powertap ones I have are slightly different ans therefore proprietory), so you have to be happy with that cleat system.

DCRainmaker is the oracle, and not much has changed recently, so his reviews are good. If you would prefer video reviews, check out the GPLama youtube channel.

THing is I use a mix of SPD and SPD SL, adding a new standard would mean new padals or more shoes, either way unnecessary hassle.
I think the crank based system is probably the simplest for me
If you want to use SPD or SPD SL then the pedal based ones aren't for you. Crank based (left only) are the cheapest and are good. 4iiii tend to be a little cheaper than Stages. There used to be problems with the battery doors on Stages, but I think they are better now - worth checking that out if you go for them.
The Spider based ones measure total power better than dual-sided cranks, but given budget was a key consideration, a left only crank seems the best answer.

In terms of training, I have been doing around 1 hour of relatively low intensity on the turbo and a couple of gym sessions per week. My hip is still problematic, so I have an appointment at the sports injuries clinic in a couple of weeks (NHS wait was many months :( ).  Right now I feel like I'll be lucky if I can race CX this autumn (or even commute reliably).  :'(

S2L

Re: Base training
« Reply #1844 on: March 06, 2020, 03:05:26 pm »
Stages delivered in record time by Sigma... and fitted... installed on the Edge and went round the corner to see if it works.. all seems fine.
In terms of numbers of the display, which is the one you guys find most useful, I was thinking 10s average, as opposed to 3s average, which might move a bit too much

Re: Base training
« Reply #1845 on: March 06, 2020, 03:30:33 pm »
I use 3s average which is essentially realtime but irons out spikes.  I think 10s is too lon if you are "training"

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Base training
« Reply #1846 on: March 06, 2020, 03:47:22 pm »
I should do some training.
i had a month's break from training and tried to restart with over-unders today. after tasting blood during the warmup i still perservered out of curiosity. managed 3min of the first interval (which felt like vo2max) and threw the towel in. will retest my ftp (my guestimate 240-250w) and start again from humble beginnings.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1847 on: March 06, 2020, 03:48:40 pm »
It depends what you are doing.  If you are doing 5 sec sprint intervals, you need real time.  If you just want average power over a ride, or are only doing intervals which are a few minutes in duration, anything is fine. 

Re: Base training
« Reply #1848 on: March 06, 2020, 03:51:46 pm »
I should do some training.
i had a month's break from training and tried to restart with over-unders today. after tasting blood during the warmup i still perservered out of curiosity. managed 3min of the first interval (which felt like vo2max) and threw the towel in. will retest my ftp (my guestimate 240-250w) and start again from humble beginnings.

Nasty!  Did you just set FTP too high, or is there something horrible in your lungs?

I've just been to Richmond Park to do 5x10.  Took me 45 minutes longer than doing it on the turbo would have done but much more pleasant on a sunny day.  Lots of people riding in shorts, with air temperature of 8-9 degrees!  A few even in short sleeves. 

S2L

Re: Base training
« Reply #1849 on: March 06, 2020, 03:57:52 pm »
It depends what you are doing.  If you are doing 5 sec sprint intervals, you need real time.  If you just want average power over a ride, or are only doing intervals which are a few minutes in duration, anything is fine.

If I do intervals, they will be on hills, so 1-5 minutes, rather than 5-10 seconds... I'll try the 10s setting and see how I get on