Post by: dme on 19 October, 2016, 11:17:56 am
The Pompino arrived with 48/16 which I've changed to 48/17 and I have a 19 tooth cog in a drawer (planning to replace the back wheel with a fixed/fixed hub) . 48/17 is okay for most of the uphills I encounter and I'm fine with walking if necessary.
My concern is mostly around descending. 45km/h is something like 120rpm and, at that rate, my bum starts to bounce on the seat with the effort of moving my legs around fast enough. I see people talking about doing LEL on 44/18 and I can't imagine the required cadence to go quickly downhill. Is improved cadence something that comes with time and training, or should I get used to dragging the brake to allow my legs to keep up?
If it's relevant I'm pretty big (6'4" and 90kg).
Post by: Chris N on 19 October, 2016, 11:23:56 am
Post by: benborp on 19 October, 2016, 11:42:03 am
It will get easier as your legs become accustomed to riding fixed but there are things that you can do to feel more comfortable with fast leg speeds. I find that rather than concentrating on pedalling faster it helps me to think of being more relaxed, keeping my feet just ahead of the pedals rather than thinking that I'm pushing the pedals forward, although that is what I am in effect doing.
Setting a fixed wheel bike up on a turbo with a very low resistance and doing some extreme spinning can allow you to experiment with what helps you maintain greater leg speed and you'll be more sensitive to any bouncing. Don't let being on a turbo allow you to forget you are riding fixed, although low resistance will give greater leeway to experiment with technique you still don't want to stop pedalling!
Post by: Oaky on 19 October, 2016, 11:45:44 am
cover the brakes and put pressure on the pedals while descending rather than just letting your legs get dragged round.
For me, this ^^^ is key.
Post by: Pingu on 19 October, 2016, 12:27:25 pm
Post by: Hot Flatus on 19 October, 2016, 12:32:06 pm
Post by: Ian H on 19 October, 2016, 12:38:29 pm
20 years ago I could get over 200rpm; nowadays my max is nearer 160.
Post by: simonp on 19 October, 2016, 12:40:37 pm
Many people seem to think that you should be riding bigger and bigger gears as you get stronger. An alternative view is that you start off bigger and as you learn to spin better, move to lower gearing.
Post by: zigzag on 19 October, 2016, 02:51:25 pm
*i ride three ss bikes now with 72", 79" and 86" gearing
Post by: drossall on 19 October, 2016, 07:25:06 pm
I'm not even sure I want to, which may be a major factor ;D
Post by: Hot Flatus on 19 October, 2016, 07:42:54 pm
Post by: dme on 19 October, 2016, 09:14:11 pm
I have immense hip flexibility, which I suggest might help. I was born with it.
A future on Strictly, perhaps?
Post by: Hot Flatus on 19 October, 2016, 09:44:22 pm
Post by: Greenbank on 19 October, 2016, 09:53:33 pm
I can't 'just let my legs go'.
I read somewhere: "To go faster, try to pedal in smaller circles. To go slower, try to pedal in larger circles." and that made sense for me when I tried it.
I've often questioned my sanity whilst not being able to admire the views across to Dinorwig.
Post by: woollypigs on 20 October, 2016, 12:07:43 am
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gebgoidxHjA
Post by: Hot Flatus on 20 October, 2016, 06:45:26 am
Post by: Chris S on 20 October, 2016, 07:18:55 am
Unclipping is a really bad idea.
I agree.
I've never been great at spinning for the same reason I find riding at a high cadence in general rather inefficient - I have big heavy legs. The guys and girls who spin best don't have elephant legs.
Post by: Jurek on 20 October, 2016, 07:24:23 am
Unclipping is a really bad idea.I see flesh flayed from calves - if not worse.
Post by: Hot Flatus on 20 October, 2016, 07:30:50 am
Advising to unclip is just a really silly thing to do, sorry.
Post by: drossall on 20 October, 2016, 07:57:25 am
Post by: Greenbank on 20 October, 2016, 09:39:16 am
You can put off learning to spin by putting on a bigger gear and making climbing harder, or you can put on a smaller gear and force yourself to spin more.
Post by: hubner on 20 October, 2016, 11:17:19 am
Post by: drossall on 20 October, 2016, 06:41:13 pm
Or use your brakes.+1
Post by: vorsprung on 20 October, 2016, 07:53:50 pm
Here's my blog from when I went fixed https://audaxing.wordpress.com/2014/06/13/no-known-fix/
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 20 October, 2016, 09:00:38 pm
Two options spin like a loon or unclip. As shown in the below link, me riding with 94" gear clocking 48mph and then Crumbling Nick unclipped.Love that video! But I note that both you pedaling like a loon and Nick unclipped are passed by at least two freewheelers. That's not particularly important of course (unless you're racing down a hill!) but it does remind me of the time I freewheeled past RegT as he span his legs off (probably the only time I have ever overtaken him) – and that was on the flat! (There was a monster tailwind.)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gebgoidxHjA
Post by: Nelson Longflap on 21 October, 2016, 12:25:32 pm
Anything over around 175 rpm gives me serious concerns about my mortality; it isn't fun (for me, although if you get a kick out of danger, or can't resist a challenge, you may feel differently). Substitute your own limit if 175 isn't fast enough. I like lowish gears so high cadences are familiar, and OK up to a point ( in my case things start getting uncomfortable at around 150 rpm).
To enjoy super-fast downhill spinning you need to switch off your imagination and don't worry about a chain unshipping, a pedal grounding, or just getting the line through a corner slightly wrong.
I'm inclined to agree with zigzag that ss is safer, and certainly faster downhill ... but, but, but when the gear is just right, riding mile after mile on fixed at a rock steady cadence feels more efficient than any freewheel (single or otherwise). I think that's part of the "zen" that fixie fans seek.
I'll continue my schizophrenic way running fixed:free in the ratio 60:40. Both feel right depending on (1) the terrain (ss feels best on hilly rides), and perhaps more importantly (2) how I'm feeling ( fixed feels more of a challenge, largely because of fast downhills, but it's great when I'm up for it).
Post by: benborp on 21 October, 2016, 01:03:21 pm
To enjoy super-fast downhill spinning you need to switch off your imagination and don't worry about a chain unshipping, a pedal grounding, or just getting the line through a corner slightly wrong.
I'll admit to enjoying things that most would consider foolish but it is usually on the proviso that I have more control over circumstances than might appear. I'm 'moderately' circumspect about descending on fixed and save the enjoyment for roads whose dangers I know well. Imagine my surprise at encountering an unmarked, temporarily filled trench cut across the entire road less than a minute from home - it hadn't been there when I left in the morning. The surprise that I felt at discovering the wheel/fork/head tube/teeth wrecking hole was soon overwhelmed by the surprise gained from an extemporary bunny hop, on fixed, comfortably north of 50kph. Oh, the height. The sheer height. And then the forward rotation...
Post by: dave r on 21 October, 2016, 04:41:00 pm
Post by: Ian H on 21 October, 2016, 11:23:16 pm
Post by: rogerzilla on 22 October, 2016, 09:20:54 pm
I'm not a spinner on the level of some here but I can manage about 35mph downhill on 48 x 18. Use your ankles as well as your knees. 48 x 17 is also a sensible gear - always gear for the downhills and let the climbs look after themselves - but 44 x 18 means you have to be really, really good at spinning. I used to TT on 48 x 14 and that is easier for the ups and downs than you might think, with the drawback that acceleration is woeful.
Post by: drossall on 22 October, 2016, 09:33:55 pm
Post by: dme on 25 October, 2016, 04:16:43 pm
Post by: simonp on 25 October, 2016, 11:49:35 pm
Post by: Hot Flatus on 25 October, 2016, 11:58:17 pm
Post by: clarion on 28 October, 2016, 10:35:29 am
Post by: dme on 28 October, 2016, 04:26:25 pm
S3X
Wow, I had not realised that such a thing existed. (Side note, searching for "S3X" in Google is, err, "interesting".)
I will considering converting an old mountain bike to this.
Post by: simonp on 28 October, 2016, 04:47:17 pm
Must have been quite a sight
Indeed, it was a 4x4.
Post by: citoyen on 28 October, 2016, 04:48:39 pm
Does anybody actually enjoy descending at speed on fixed?
Up to a point. When I was using my fixed regularly for commuting, there was a short, steep descent where it was easy to get up to 180rpm or higher, which is fun for short bursts. I would be more circumspect on descents lasting more than a handful of seconds.
Post by: benborp on 29 October, 2016, 12:55:15 pm
Up to a point. When I was using my fixed regularly for commuting, there was a short, steep descent where it was easy to get up to 180rpm or higher, which is fun for short bursts. I would be more circumspect on descents lasting more than a handful of seconds.
I think a large part of my enjoyment of riding fixed was my south London commute. It would often get extended.There were several rollercoaster options from Camberwell out to Bromley. Actually, the experience really was very much like a rollercoaster, trading energy and speed.
Post by: citoyen on 29 October, 2016, 04:07:25 pm
There were several rollercoaster options from Camberwell out to Bromley. Actually, the experience really was very much like a rollercoaster, trading energy and speed.
What's your route? I used to go from Bromley via Beckenham and Penge, up Crystal Palace Park Rd and down Fountain Drive, then Denmark Hill and through Camberwell to E&C. It's a really good ride on fixed - good mix of gradients but nothing too steep. For the return leg in the evening I would sometimes go via Sydenham Hill, but wouldn't go that way in the morning because it's too steep to be enjoyable to descend on fixed.
Post by: benborp on 29 October, 2016, 05:03:06 pm
Moving to Brixton was a disappointment but where I'm living now there isn't a decent hill for miles.
Post by: jamesld8 on 01 November, 2016, 08:50:33 pm
i haven't mastered relaxed descending in few months of riding fixed, so decided that fixed bikes belong to velodromes and never looked back*. dragging brakes on the descents seems counter productive.
*i ride three ss bikes now with 72", 79" and 86" gearing
An interesting thread --- the downhills being my concern too
rather with you ZZ on this, but packed fixed after two gos; riding around Welsh borders / commute downhills of 2-3 km @ 5% and 50-60 kph don`t in my view align with riding fixed. I can well see the zen of realtively flat areas and fixed but with hilly terrain it does seem a big loss to be braking when going downhill so SS (44 x 19 for those 10% climbs ) is at moment and area here my choice, even though it might be `worst of both worlds , fixed and SS`
Post by: Ian H on 01 November, 2016, 09:02:16 pm
Post by: Hot Flatus on 01 November, 2016, 09:20:47 pm
Post by: dme on 01 November, 2016, 09:23:26 pm
It was enjoyable and there were not many downhills where I had to spend a lot of time braking (though I was resisting the pedals). A couple of uphills were hard, but nothing dreadful. Moving time was 12 minutes slower than last year (geared), but overall time a bit quicker.
A lower gear would definitely be necessary for anything with more hills. I'll stick with it for a bit
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: Chris S on 01 November, 2016, 09:28:33 pm
A lower gear would definitely be necessary for anything with more hills. I'll stick with it for a bit
This may or may not be true. I remember the great Malvolio (no longer of this parish), but fixer of Legend, lamenting being on a lower gear on the Dorset Coast 200. It's better to walk a few, and roll better for the majority on a bigger gear.
Post by: Ian H on 01 November, 2016, 09:53:58 pm
And how does it feel after 70?
Eff off, Flat-arse. ;)
Post by: rogerzilla on 12 November, 2016, 10:42:12 pm
I - ahem - have an 3-speed ASC that I rebuilt (it needed re-shelling and I replaced all the lockwashers and bearings) and don't really intend to use. Did about 100 dry miles on it to test it. It's a much nicer hub than the S3X, with no noise and much less lash. Built into a 36h Rigida 700c rim which doesn't look out of place on a vintage bike. Shifters for the ASC, which have a unique cable pull, are just about impossible to find but a SA 4-speed trigger and a few minutes with an angle grinder will give you one; one of the detents on the ratchet needs filing down to give the correct cable pull, and one position of the shifter is (obviously) unused. I did it with a particularly scabby trigger but you could get a nicer one; they were made in their thousands for Moultons and other FW-equipped bikes so they're not hard to find.S3X
Wow, I had not realised that such a thing existed. (Side note, searching for "S3X" in Google is, err, "interesting".)
I will considering converting an old mountain bike to this.
Post by: simonp on 22 November, 2016, 10:30:26 pm
Post by: Nelson Longflap on 23 November, 2016, 09:35:25 pm
Does anybody actually enjoy descending at speed on fixed?
Well me - my 42/17 fixed ride today was a blast, including some short, steep and fast descents, and a 1 km 7% descent which was very spinny :) The Hampshire climbs were great fun too. Fixed wheel was a real plus today :thumbsup: