PBP 2023 - Rulz

[Wycombewheeler]

Have they published Brest cut off times yet? Or anyone care to share what they were last time around.
Specifically interested in the 84H rider's 600km allowance but having them all here in one place would be ace

last time it was 42 hours for the 90hour group as I recall, so if you assume something around 39 hours for the 84 hour starts, you won't be far wrong.

[Wycombewheeler]

Riding in a country where it feels like half the cyclists think lights are something they don't need, I have become a big fan of reflectors for avoiding crashing into them.

J

I think this is exactly the point, the requirement for reflectors is to deal with those that do not fit lights, or from a time when lights were less reliable. No self respecting randonneur is heading out without working lights, and the mandatory hi vis gilet will be enforced at the controls.

If shoes (or leg warmers/tights) have reflective elements, does it really add anything to have additional on the pedals? So that just leaves side reflectors on the wheels. I might see about digging some out, I think Canyon provided me with a set when I bought one of their bikes years ago. I never fitted them because they are just so pointless. So the chances of my fitting reflectors, spokey-dokes or dorc discs to my wheels is pretty low. I'd be more like to look for some schwalbe tyres with a refletive line running round the side wall.
Amazingly drivers can see cars from the side despite the lights only pointing front and back and no side reflectors. So why seeing bikes from this angle is difficult is a mystery. Perhaps it also stems from a time when bike lights gave off about as much light as half a candle.

Reflectors are a legal requirement in the UK too, but I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted for lack of reflectors IF they have a working set of lights. I think the only reflectors on any of my bikes are on the mudguards. (rear and side)

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Have they published Brest cut off times yet? Or anyone care to share what they were last time around.
Specifically interested in the 84H rider's 600km allowance but having them all here in one place would be ace

I can't remember what the control closing times were for PBP19 but https://rusa.org/pbp95checkpoints.html#84HR were the control closing times from last century, with about the same overall distance as PBP23. Brest closed 38-ish hours after starting from St Quentin en Yvelines back then. I rode the 84hr starts at PBP07 and PBP11 and sub-40 hours sounds about right from vague memory but watch the closing time at Carhaix outbound too. That seemed particularly tight. HK and I seemed to bounce along too close for my comfort to the 84hr closing times until Mortagne au Perche on the return but we made time hand over fist after that.

That is good enough for planning purposes at this stage.

[frillipippi]

In addition to all mandatory (although not enforced) items and Schwalbe tyres, I've just had my bike painted in silver reflective paint because I'm convinced that the more visible you and your bike are, the better.

I'll claim more: being conspicuous is the new fashion, day and night.

So, if you're leaving Rambouillet in the first group, be sure to have your sunglasses with you, or ride in front of me!

[thing1]

I can't remember what the control closing times were for PBP19 but https://rusa.org/pbp95checkpoints.html#84HR were the control closing times from last century, with about the same overall distance as PBP23. Brest closed 38-ish hours after starting from St Quentin en Yvelines back then. I rode the 84hr starts at PBP07 and PBP11 and sub-40 hours sounds about right from vague memory but watch the closing time at Carhaix outbound too. That seemed particularly tight. HK and I seemed to bounce along too close for my comfort to the 84hr closing times until Mortagne au Perche on the return but we made time hand over fist after that.

That is good enough for planning purposes at this stage.

Good good, thank you. as you say that's plenty for planning purposes at this point. 👍

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

In addition to all mandatory (although not enforced) items and Schwalbe tyres, I've just had my bike painted in silver reflective paint because I'm convinced that the more visible you and your bike are, the better.

I'll claim more: being conspicuous is the new fashion, day and night.

So, if you're leaving Rambouillet in the first group, be sure to have your sunglasses with you, or ride in front of me!

Likewise, I gave my new Rapha pink socks a trial run today.  They can be seen from 150m day or night

[Wycombewheeler]

Sorry if this has been covered before, but do any of the anciens know whether it's possible to pick up your start documents etc later on the Sunday than the midday or so cutoff shown on the website? I've got an early Monday start and had hoped to ride down from Dieppe on the Sunday (ferry arrives 0400)  - with the best will and most favourable wind, I'm not going to get to rambouillet before about 3 or 4pm. Alternatively, is it possible to ask another Monday morning starter to pick the bits up on my behalf? I realise I should probably address this to the horse's mouth, but thought I'd ask here first before embarrassing myself with my GCSE French.

where did you find this?

From the diary page of the presentation  https://www.paris-brest-paris.org/en/download/PBP-BROCHURE-PRESENTATION-EN.pdf I get

FRIDAY, AUGUST 18 /
SATURDAY, AUGUST 19 /
SUNDAY, AUGUST 20, 2023
Withdrawal of your documents
Friday from 2 pm to 7 pm or
Saturday from 8 am to 7 pm (if and only if you start on Sunday),
Sunday from 8 pm to 1 am (if and only if you start on Monday)

now 8pm to 1am seemed a bit unlikely to me, so i checked the French version

[VENDREDI 18 / SAMEDI 19 /
DIMANCHE 20 AOÛT 2023
retrait de votre dossier
le vendredi de 14h00 à 19h00
ou le samedi de 8h00 à 19h00 uniquement pour les partants du dimanche,
le dimanche de 8h00 à 13h00 uniquement pour les partants du lundi.

24 hour clock is less ambiguous, so you have until 13:00, that's 9 hours from your 4m arrival time to cover 180km. pretty tough if riding all loaded up for the event. I would be surprised if they allowed anyone to collect outside this window, or they will just end up with everyone turning up later. More chance of getting someone to collect for you

for those riding on Sunday, and cycling to Rambouillet, do you anticipate cycling on the Saturday? or having a rest day in Rambouillet after arrival?

[Lightning Phil]

I’m riding down to Rambouillet over 2 days from Dieppe. I’ll be riding 70km on the Saturday.  Start 1715 on Sunday.

[Tom]

Sorry if this has been covered before, but do any of the anciens know whether it's possible to pick up your start documents etc later on the Sunday than the midday or so cutoff shown on the website? I've got an early Monday start and had hoped to ride down from Dieppe on the Sunday (ferry arrives 0400)  - with the best will and most favourable wind, I'm not going to get to rambouillet before about 3 or 4pm. Alternatively, is it possible to ask another Monday morning starter to pick the bits up on my behalf? I realise I should probably address this to the horse's mouth, but thought I'd ask here first before embarrassing myself with my GCSE French.

where did you find this?

From the diary page of the presentation  https://www.paris-brest-paris.org/en/download/PBP-BROCHURE-PRESENTATION-EN.pdf I get

FRIDAY, AUGUST 18 /
SATURDAY, AUGUST 19 /
SUNDAY, AUGUST 20, 2023
Withdrawal of your documents
Friday from 2 pm to 7 pm or
Saturday from 8 am to 7 pm (if and only if you start on Sunday),
Sunday from 8 pm to 1 am (if and only if you start on Monday)

now 8pm to 1am seemed a bit unlikely to me, so i checked the French version

[VENDREDI 18 / SAMEDI 19 /
DIMANCHE 20 AOÛT 2023
retrait de votre dossier
le vendredi de 14h00 à 19h00
ou le samedi de 8h00 à 19h00 uniquement pour les partants du dimanche,
le dimanche de 8h00 à 13h00 uniquement pour les partants du lundi.

24 hour clock is less ambiguous, so you have until 13:00, that's 9 hours from your 4m arrival time to cover 180km. pretty tough if riding all loaded up for the event. I would be surprised if they allowed anyone to collect outside this window, or they will just end up with everyone turning up later. More chance of getting someone to collect for you.

That is pretty much exactly the gist of my question. I asked Thierry of ACP and he confirmed that I can ask a kind Monday starter who'll be there a bit earlier than me to pick up my bits and pieces on my behalf.

[αdαmsκι]

Have they published Brest cut off times yet? Or anyone care to share what they were last time around.
Specifically interested in the 84H rider's 600km allowance but having them all here in one place would be ace

2015 brevet card from 84 hr start

[Ajax Bay]

Have they published Brest cut off times yet? Or anyone care to share what they were last time around.
Specifically interested in the 84H rider's 600km allowance but having them all here in one place would be ace

I can't remember what the control closing times were for PBP19 . . . .

Here's what LWaB said 4 years ago:

If you are a slow starter, the 84hr intermediate time limits are remarkably tight until just a few controls from the finish, at which point bags of time are gained each stage. The 'race out, tour back' advice kicks in much harder on the 84hr start than the 90hr IMHO.

EDIT: The minimum average speed required for the first 600km of a 84hr PBP is 16km/h (or thereabouts) and 12.7km/h for 600-1000km then 13.3km/h till the end, as per https://rusa.org/octime_rm.html
The minimum average for the 90hr starters is 15km/h for 600km, 11.5km/h-ish for 600-1000km, then 13.3km/h.
Remember that many slower folk want to sleep once in the first 600km of PBP but twice in the next 400km.

For me
1999, 2003 - 90hr solo, great fun, no time pressures at all, sub-70 and low-80 hour finishes.
2007, 2011 - 84hr solo, tighter on time than I'd hoped till well past Brest, sub-80 hour finishes.
2015 - 90hr tandem, great fun, no time pressures at all. Blast through the first night on adrenalin (and lots of sleep beforehand) and plenty of sleep every night after that, sub-90 hour finish.
2019 - same as 2015.

[Wycombewheeler]

I think at every time limit you get more time than you can possibly need to get from Mortagne au Perche to Rambouillet UNLESS you have a sleep at Dreux. I'm amazed anyone can finish at 89 hours+ without being out of time at earlier controls or deliberately stalling in the last couple of sections to join the Adrian Hands society. Meanwhile, it becomes very difficult to stay inside time first thing in the morning. I finished in 79 hours 20, but if I had been on the 80 hours schedule I would have been late at the first two controls on Tuesday and Wednesday morning.

I can't find the document we got in 2019 with all the time limits, was it emailed, or did we have to download something from the net? But this was my recollection.? Does no one have that still?

[Ivo]

I think at every time limit you get more time than you can possibly need to get from Mortagne au Perche to Rambouillet UNLESS you have a sleep at Dreux. I'm amazed anyone can finish at 89 hours+ without being out of time at earlier controls or deliberately stalling in the last couple of sections to join the Adrian Hands society.

Well, I did get close to this in 2015. The secret is a steady ride with little sleep (for me mostly 3-4 hours in total during PBP), and when I sleep, it's outside of the controls. A 90 hour rider starting relatively early will BTW be best suited sleeping between Mortagne and Dreux, especially for late sleepers.

[thing1]

I think at every time limit you get more time than you can possibly need to get from Mortagne au Perche to Rambouillet UNLESS you have a sleep at Dreux. I'm amazed anyone can finish at 89 hours+ without being out of time at earlier controls or deliberately stalling in the last couple of sections to join the Adrian Hands society. Meanwhile, it becomes very difficult to stay inside time first thing in the morning. I finished in 79 hours 20, but if I had been on the 80 hours schedule I would have been late at the first two controls on Tuesday and Wednesday morning.

I can't find the document we got in 2019 with all the time limits, was it emailed, or did we have to download something from the net? But this was my recollection.? Does no one have that still?

Helpfully linked by LWaB here https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=112382.0
Unhelpfully the link is now dead
Helpfully wayback machine has that page here https://web.archive.org/web/20210225101110/http://www.paris-brest-paris.org/index2.php?lang=en&cat=inscription&page=dossier_participant
Unhelpfully they didn't index the zipped pdf file.

I think a friend still has a copy of it somewhere, will check.

[TOBY]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1o26tewmqw4wvaC6jZfwhjaMGGn_tqwrE/view?usp=drivesdk

Page 20 onwards for 2019 control times

I think at every time limit you get more time than you can possibly need to get from Mortagne au Perche to Rambouillet UNLESS you have a sleep at Dreux. I'm amazed anyone can finish at 89 hours+ without being out of time at earlier controls or deliberately stalling in the last couple of sections to join the Adrian Hands society. Meanwhile, it becomes very difficult to stay inside time first thing in the morning. I finished in 79 hours 20, but if I had been on the 80 hours schedule I would have been late at the first two controls on Tuesday and Wednesday morning.

I can't find the document we got in 2019 with all the time limits, was it emailed, or did we have to download something from the net? But this was my recollection.? Does no one have that still?

Helpfully linked by LWaB here https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=112382.0
Unhelpfully the link is now dead
Helpfully wayback machine has that page here https://web.archive.org/web/20210225101110/http://www.paris-brest-paris.org/index2.php?lang=en&cat=inscription&page=dossier_participant
Unhelpfully they didn't index the zipped pdf file.

I think a friend still has a copy of it somewhere, will check.

[Wycombewheeler]

I think at every time limit you get more time than you can possibly need to get from Mortagne au Perche to Rambouillet UNLESS you have a sleep at Dreux. I'm amazed anyone can finish at 89 hours+ without being out of time at earlier controls or deliberately stalling in the last couple of sections to join the Adrian Hands society.

Well, I did get close to this in 2015. The secret is a steady ride with little sleep (for me mostly 3-4 hours in total during PBP), and when I sleep, it's outside of the controls. A 90 hour rider starting relatively early will BTW be best suited sleeping between Mortagne and Dreux, especially for late sleepers.

yes I guess if you have time for 10 hours sleep on the ride and you split it into 5 equally spaced rests of 2 hours it works, but that seems like a really uncomfortable way to ride to me.

[Ivo]

I think at every time limit you get more time than you can possibly need to get from Mortagne au Perche to Rambouillet UNLESS you have a sleep at Dreux. I'm amazed anyone can finish at 89 hours+ without being out of time at earlier controls or deliberately stalling in the last couple of sections to join the Adrian Hands society.

Well, I did get close to this in 2015. The secret is a steady ride with little sleep (for me mostly 3-4 hours in total during PBP), and when I sleep, it's outside of the controls. A 90 hour rider starting relatively early will BTW be best suited sleeping between Mortagne and Dreux, especially for late sleepers.

yes I guess if you have time for 10 hours sleep on the ride and you split it into 5 equally spaced rests of 2 hours it works, but that seems like a really uncomfortable way to ride to me.

No, I didn't have time for 3-4 hours per night, I had time for about 1-1 1/2 hours per night, totalling at about 3-4 hours for the entire ride. For each his own, I'm not a rider with bursts of speed, but more a steady speed. And not only on my bike (I once did a 1500m PB in speed skating with the 3 full laps each within 0.5 seconds of each other).

Edit, got the data out of my best 3 1500m races (full lap times only)
35.6 36.5 37.0
36.0 36.3 36.8
35.7 35.5 36.1
(conventional wisdom is that anything with less then 2 seconds 'loss' per lap is good on a 1500)
So a lot has to do with how your body is functioning.

[Wycombewheeler]

Honestly I don't think I could function on so little sleep, so I would be looking very hard at reducing every other stop to the bare minimum, to try to get more sleep. (you may already be efficient)

On a recent hilly 600, I only had time for one hours sleep and it was getting hard to stay awake at times. to do that for a second night, would leave me falling off the bike I think.

On LEL I had 2 hours at Hessle, 4 hours at Brampton, 5 hours at Dunfermline, 4 hours at Barnard Castle, only 2.5 hours at Boston due to the heat forecast and I was forced to nap twice between Boston and the finish

[Ivo]

Honestly I don't think I could function on so little sleep, so I would be looking very hard at reducing every other stop to the bare minimum, to try to get more sleep. (you may already be efficient)

On a recent hilly 600, I only had time for one hours sleep and it was getting hard to stay awake at times. to do that for a second night, would leave me falling off the bike I think.

On LEL I had 2 hours at Hessle, 4 hours at Brampton, 5 hours at Dunfermline, 4 hours at Barnard Castle, only 2.5 hours at Boston due to the heat forecast and I was forced to nap twice between Boston and the finish

the amount of sleep needed is very different from person to person.
For me, at a 600, all depends on the start time. If I've worked/travelled the day before, I need 1-2 hours when the start is before 6am, a little nap when the start is at 7am, and no sleep when the start is at 8 or 9am. Hence, I prefer a relatively late start.
When I have thursday/friday off, the amount of sleep needed decreases. But still I need some sleep when the start is at 6am or earlier.

[Flâneur]

Helmet now compulsory? Email just dropped:

"Due to decisons of the french administration, we need to modify the PBP2023 regulations. Wearing a helmet becomes compulsory.

Article 9 of the regulations will be modified from  "It is highly recommended to wear an approved helmet throughout the event." to "It is requested by the french administration to wear an approved helmet throughout the event." The wearing of the helmet will be checked as well as the presence of the reflective vest and the conformity of your vehicle before entering the starting area. We remind you that it is not necessary to come with your bike to collect the documents."

The French version is "Le port du casque à coque rigide est rendu obligatoire tout au long du brevet par décision préfectorale.", which is clearly rather more than a request.

[iscunonove]

Begs the question: is there a penalty for failing to comply? If so, what?

[Ivo]

The English translation is sloppy, it's not the French Administration (Republican Level) but a few préfectures (local level) who apparantly required this. I haven't received the mail yet, but did see some screenshots.
From the point of view of adminsitrative law (speaking as a political scientist), it's very odd that a local official can deviate from national law. Usualy such decisions are revoked by a judge, but that takes time and effort.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

I hope somebody French makes a decent attempt to reverse this rule.

[αdαmsκι]

Feels a bit bloody late in the day to make this change. And I say this as someone who was going to wear a helmet regardless.

This is what the email says

(click to show/hide)

Bonjour, Hello

Suite aux retours de plusieurs préfectures, nous devons modifier le règlement du PBP2023. Le port du casque devient obligatoire.

L'article 9 du règlement sera modifié de  "Le port du casque à coque rigide est fortement recommandé tout au long du brevet." à "Le port du casque à coque rigide est rendu obligatoire tout au long du brevet par décision préfectorale." Le port du casque sera contrôlé comme la présence du gilet réféchissant et la conformité de votre véhicule avant d'accèder au sas de départ. Nous vous rappelons qu'il n'est pas nécessaire de venir avec son vélo pour retirer les documents.

De plus, nous vous rappelons que tous les documents relatifs au PBP2023 peuvent être retrouvés en cliquant sur "Documents" sur votre compte participant https://myaccount.audax-club-parisien.com/

 

Due to decisons of the french administration, we need to modify the PBP2023 regulations. Wearing a helmet becomes compulsory.

Article 9 of the regulations will be modified from  "It is highly recommended to wear an approved helmet throughout the event." to "It is requested by the french administration to wear an approved helmet throughout the event." The wearing of the helmet will be checked as well as the presence of the reflective vest and the conformity of your vehicle before entering the starting area. We remind you that it is not necessary to come with your bike to collect the documents.

Furthermore, we remind you that all documents related to PBP2023 can be found under "Documents" at your rider account https://myaccount.audax-club-parisien.com/

 

Cordialement, Best regards,

L'équipe d'organisation

[Von Broad]

Feels a bit bloody late in the day to make this change.

...especially when you haven't even got one!!!...
oh well....looks like I'm going to be out of time now regardless, with all the penalties coming my way
A Royal PITA.....rebel!!!! It's what the French normally do, isn't it?