Author Topic: TCR no8.  (Read 60681 times)

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #675 on: 05 August, 2022, 03:18:32 pm »

400 and up to 500 km a day for the racers that have finished. Unthinkable over that hilly terrain. Phenomenal.

The proliferation of these events has created a new beast, the ultra racer... realistically, it is now a "race" for 5% of the field... for the others it's about getting to the finish within the time limits... so a very long audax.

I remember reading about Mike's idea of unsupported racing and how this goes back to the pure spirit of it... reality is as far as I can tell, bicycle races were always supported, maybe not to the degree they are now, but there was never a time where races looked like TCR and the tales of men forging their forks at the bottom of the Tourmalet were not the norm.

Oh no its very competitive right through the field. The time cut off is admittedly the goal for most agreed, but don't underestimate how much the races check the dots around them and try to get ahead of them.
often lost.

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #676 on: 05 August, 2022, 03:44:28 pm »

Fiona rode the final leg after the gravel parcours (that she rode at over 11 kph so patently rideable for the most part)
a 640 km effort at 25 kph with 4,650 m of climb in 29 hours. Stop time was a mere 3.5 hours including the weight for and ferry crossing.
..........Stuck in her 50/15 chainring!  Other worldly.

If she hadn't had her money pinched way back in Czech and lost at least half a day I think she would have been up there fighting it out with the front 6.


 
often lost.

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #677 on: 05 August, 2022, 04:12:17 pm »

400 and up to 500 km a day for the racers that have finished. Unthinkable over that hilly terrain. Phenomenal.

The proliferation of these events has created a new beast, the ultra racer... realistically, it is now a "race" for 5% of the field... for the others it's about getting to the finish within the time limits... so a very long audax.

I remember reading about Mike's idea of unsupported racing and how this goes back to the pure spirit of it... reality is as far as I can tell, bicycle races were always supported, maybe not to the degree they are now, but there was never a time where races looked like TCR and the tales of men forging their forks at the bottom of the Tourmalet were not the norm.
It is very pure racing - "who can get from A to B as fast as possible"! I do think the self-supported bit might be slightly overblown when it comes to riders giving each other a pump or some money, as we all know that if you're by the side of the road passing riders often offer assistance. But the rules do avoid things like domestiques, and certainly support cars.

That is fair enough, but I don't think it is any more "pure racing" than a bunch of blokes battling it out on a Sunday morning doing laps of a 6 miles course. In fact, the shortest the event, the more pure the racing is, in my opinion. Crit racing, a well as track disciplines like the Madison or Keirin are in my humble opinion the purest form of racing. Ultra racing throws in far too many variables to be a credible race. It's a very long reliability ride with a competitive element thrown in. It's a bit of fun and certainly a massive physicial and logistical challenge... as for "pure racing"... meh  :(

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #678 on: 05 August, 2022, 05:08:31 pm »
... I see a lot of similarities with the Paris-Dakar, as a motor sport equivalent... a race with a huge entry barrier, where it's not necessarily the most talented driver who wins. The purest motor sport is go-kart, that's where you go and look for the next Ayrton Senna.... that's proper racing!
The demographic of TCR is by necessity closer to 50 than it is to 20... you need a lot of time and a lot of money to be in it... in some respect, you buy your way into it, by being fortunate enough to live a comfortable life... of course there will be exceptions: deranged bike couriers, who eat of out of tins for 350 days, so that they can do TCR, but it's not an example for anyone, I think.
School age riders are pretty much excluded from the event, although they represent the talent to nurture, not some 40 something it manager with an appetite for adventure. A club race is 5 quid, a BC cat 2/3/4 race is 10-20 quid and they are local... that's where you spot racing talent, not in some kind of exotic adventure cycling across a continent.

For all these reasons, I don't believe it is "pure racing"...

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #679 on: 05 August, 2022, 07:14:49 pm »
 Im not really sure where you are going with all those statements TBH, its all bit scatter effect.
I'll try to answer though.

Perhaps sign up and do the event and then come back and tell us it's not a race?
There is a cost involved but at the bare bones end, in a Western sense, its not cost prohibitive and there is always the chance to apply for the bursary positions.
What may be a barrier for many is the time it takes.

It's been raced on Supermarket bikes with home made bike packing gear. Racers have ridden to the start. taken a ferry etc.many bevy out and eat out of gas stations.
Lots of racers are in their 20's (time perhaps, less likely to have family responsibilities, students etc)

Paris Dakar costs tens of thousands, that's not an appropriate analogy.

I don't get the pure racing concept either.
A marathon is a race, a 100m dash is a race. A criterium is a race, an ultra is a race.

I will concur that TCR is not purely a race; its a much deeper concept than that.
often lost.

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #680 on: 05 August, 2022, 07:24:52 pm »
I will concur that TCR is not purely a race; its a much deeper concept than that.

My grudge is against this widely diffuse and wildly misplaced notion that professional cycling has somewhat lost its soul, because there are support vehicles, radios and domestiques and that somehow is supposed to diminish the value of the race, whereas unsupported racing has some kind of halo of purity, the true spirit of a bicycle competition... well, it's all bollox... bicycle races were always supported, there was never a time when one had to carry a map and a bivvy bag... it's fantasy, it's a romantic idea of a racing that never existed. Bicycle races have always been about who is the fastest across the finish line. There is no extra value if you can win by a quantity that you can be measured with a calendar, rather than by seconds or milliseconds. In my opinion, the best racing is the shortest, not the longest. The longer the race, the more factors, other than speed and talent become prevalent, hence the less of a race it becomes.

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #681 on: 05 August, 2022, 07:32:46 pm »
Look up the ‘Touriste Routier’ category from editions of the Tour in the 30s.

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #682 on: 05 August, 2022, 07:50:54 pm »
I will concur that TCR is not purely a race; its a much deeper concept than that.

My grudge is against this widely diffuse and wildly misplaced notion that professional cycling has somewhat lost its soul, because there are support vehicles, radios and domestiques and that somehow is supposed to diminish the value of the race, whereas unsupported racing has some kind of halo of purity, the true spirit of a bicycle competition... well, it's all bollox... bicycle races were always supported, there was never a time when one had to carry a map and a bivvy bag... it's fantasy, it's a romantic idea of a racing that never existed. Bicycle races have always been about who is the fastest across the finish line. There is no extra value if you can win by a quantity that you can be measured with a calendar, rather than by seconds or milliseconds. In my opinion, the best racing is the shortest, not the longest. The longer the race, the more factors, other than speed and talent become prevalent, hence the less of a race it becomes.

I enjoy it all, and don't particularly judge.
Ultra racing and the texture of the discipline holds a special place though.
Happy riding/viewing.
often lost.

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #683 on: 05 August, 2022, 07:54:54 pm »
Look up the ‘Touriste Routier’ category from editions of the Tour in the 30s.

Exactly, basically they were not in the race... allowed to take part, but ultimately excluded from the action.
Personally, I think that Henry Desgrange was more of a butcher than a race organiser... he had a sadistic view of bicycle racing, which wasn't really that helpful... thankfully things moved on swiftly

Zed43

  • prefers UK hills over Dutch mountains
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #684 on: 05 August, 2022, 08:14:08 pm »
Count the number of spectators of the TdF. Count the number of TCR dot watchers.

I would say that this notion about professional road racing that you talk about is not shared by many.

There have always been and always will be people who don't care (anymore) for things in the mainstream. And thus we have audax, bmx, mtb, battle mountain,TCR, etc etc. Cool ain't it?

As for the TCR, in the "Kristof era" I was often glued to the screen but nowadays I only take a passing interest. Feeling it has become too racy, too serious, too extreme, too risky. Changes in my mental makeup have probably more to do with this assessment than changes in the event itself (though not entirely?)

Still, Fiona playing the piano in one of the later controls has become my benchmark of awesomeness in endurance cycling.

(sorry for rambling, being bored in a hotel room )

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #685 on: 06 August, 2022, 12:48:46 pm »
Frank is half way across the parcour still holding 200 miles a day. Well done Frank!
often lost.

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #686 on: 06 August, 2022, 02:06:14 pm »


There have always been and always will be people who don't care (anymore) for things in the mainstream. And thus we have audax, bmx, mtb, battle mountain,TCR, etc etc. Cool ain't it?



They do become mainstream very quickly though... MTBikes have been the best selling bikes for quite some time and with the current hangover of "adventure bike" offerings, it won't be long before road cycling becomes the niche discipline.

The funny thing is that all these trends start with the same basic idea of going back to a simpler way of having fun on the bike... it was the same with MTBikes... simple bangers to get out of the traffic and tarmac... now you look at the current Specialized range and wonder what is so simple about them.

Tim Hall

  • Victoria is my queen
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #687 on: 07 August, 2022, 06:30:12 pm »
Frank tweeted yesterday

Quote
My shoes have disintegrated on cp4 parcours. I can't now unclip, so can't ride safely. No chance of getting other pedals / shoes up here so can't make it to Burgas, at least not for another few days.
20 km to walk down to end of track. No water. I've had better days.

https://twitter.com/frank9755/status/1555904530008735745?cxt=HHwWgoC8-aW715crAAAA

However he then said, 40 minutes later
Quote
Riding again. Had a couple of ideas. Might be ok, might not...
https://twitter.com/frank9755/status/1555914098482847744?cxt=HHwWgIC90aDo25crAAAA

Tracking now shows him just over the Danube. Hurrah. Come on my son.
There are two ways you can get exercise out of a bicycle: you can
"overhaul" it, or you can ride it.  (Jerome K Jerome)

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #688 on: 07 August, 2022, 08:13:26 pm »
Yikes he's been through the wringer.
Well done Frank.
Join the flat pedal society mate!
often lost.

Tim Hall

  • Victoria is my queen
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #689 on: 07 August, 2022, 09:14:12 pm »
Yikes he's been through the wringer.
Well done Frank.
Join the flat pedal society mate!
Ironically (or annoyingly) he did loads of long distance rides on flat pedals in the past. I'm not sure why he changed this time round.
There are two ways you can get exercise out of a bicycle: you can
"overhaul" it, or you can ride it.  (Jerome K Jerome)

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #690 on: 07 August, 2022, 09:56:44 pm »
Ironically (or annoyingly) he did loads of long distance rides on flat pedals in the past. I'm not sure why he changed this time round.

That would all be Hippy's fault.

https://twitter.com/frank9755/status/1556264697183232005

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Cudzoziemiec

  • Моя планета голубая, я люблю тебя и обнимаю
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #691 on: 08 August, 2022, 08:47:53 am »
"Never trust a hippy"!
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #692 on: 08 August, 2022, 09:32:25 am »
The purest motor sport is go-kart, that's where you go and look for the next Ayrton Senna.... that's proper racing!

PMSL

Seriously, you can spend a couple of grand on a kart and still be at the back of the field because some fat lump with no skill has spent twenty.
We got to the point where we were pushing fuel to the limit, and my mate was eating and drinking nothing at lunchtime to make up for the fact we had a heavier kart and weaker engine.
And then there were the various incidents I've mentioned before.

The closest to a concept of purity in a form of racing you're going to get is bare foot running starkers in the desert where all you're allowed to eat for the week before and during the race is raisins.

Tim Hall

  • Victoria is my queen
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #693 on: 08 August, 2022, 11:59:13 am »
Frank is now in 71st position according to the tracker website. He's about 2km behind Oscar Shortt. Very different moving/stopped profiles. Frank is 73% 27% while Oscar is 60% 40%.
There are two ways you can get exercise out of a bicycle: you can
"overhaul" it, or you can ride it.  (Jerome K Jerome)

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #694 on: 08 August, 2022, 12:36:15 pm »
Frank is now in 71st position according to the tracker website. He's about 2km behind Oscar Shortt. Very different moving/stopped profiles. Frank is 73% 27% while Oscar is 60% 40%.


He's pretty much on the home straight and will make the party. Top Effort.
Im looking forward to hearing his debrief and how this compared to previous ultras, in particular earlier editions of TCR.
From the reports filtering through, the dog chases seem to have been a little more prevalent this year, and the CP4 parcour with mixed weather for different riders, was a real challenge.
 


often lost.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #695 on: 08 August, 2022, 12:39:37 pm »
He's pretty much on the home straight and will make the party. Top Effort.
Im looking forward to hearing his debrief and how this compared to previous ultras, in particular earlier editions of TCR.
From the reports filtering through, the dog chases seem to have been a little more prevalent this year, and the CP4 parcour with mixed weather for different riders, was a real challenge.

I've seen two riders have actually been bitten this year. Dog chases have been reported every year, but this is the first time I've seen reports of people being bitten on the TCR.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #696 on: 08 August, 2022, 02:36:52 pm »
He's pretty much on the home straight and will make the party. Top Effort.
Im looking forward to hearing his debrief and how this compared to previous ultras, in particular earlier editions of TCR.
From the reports filtering through, the dog chases seem to have been a little more prevalent this year, and the CP4 parcour with mixed weather for different riders, was a real challenge.

I've seen two riders have actually been bitten this year. Dog chases have been reported every year, but this is the first time I've seen reports of people being bitten on the TCR.

J

All in the spirit of this kind of "racing", I suppose

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #697 on: 08 August, 2022, 03:38:06 pm »
He's pretty much on the home straight and will make the party. Top Effort.
Im looking forward to hearing his debrief and how this compared to previous ultras, in particular earlier editions of TCR.
From the reports filtering through, the dog chases seem to have been a little more prevalent this year, and the CP4 parcour with mixed weather for different riders, was a real challenge.

I've seen two riders have actually been bitten this year. Dog chases have been reported every year, but this is the first time I've seen reports of people being bitten on the TCR.

J


Yes I don't recall anyone having teef marks before. Its certainly happened on TABR in Kentucky a few times.
I have a mess of dogs here at home and am used to dogs in general, but it didn't stop me shyteing myself a few times in Bosnia/Albania.
One close one just over the Albanian border in the pitch black where 4 red eyes appeared out of nowhere had my heart rate at zone 9.  The only situation where I was truly probably in a dodgy situation though was the day lost on the plateau below Blejnica. I got between a huge sarplaninac and his heard of cows. Hairy.   
I always remind myself that loads of cyclist tour the back country around there, some even with their own pet, and manage to deal with it.
Still get the shiver down the neck though!
often lost.

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #698 on: 08 August, 2022, 03:40:20 pm »
He's pretty much on the home straight and will make the party. Top Effort.
Im looking forward to hearing his debrief and how this compared to previous ultras, in particular earlier editions of TCR.
From the reports filtering through, the dog chases seem to have been a little more prevalent this year, and the CP4 parcour with mixed weather for different riders, was a real challenge.

I've seen two riders have actually been bitten this year. Dog chases have been reported every year, but this is the first time I've seen reports of people being bitten on the TCR.

J

All in the spirit of this kind of "racing", I suppose

In this type of racing yeah. Comes with the territory. You supposed correctly.
often lost.

Tim Hall

  • Victoria is my queen
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #699 on: 08 August, 2022, 04:13:22 pm »
Frank is now in 71st position according to the tracker website. He's about 2km behind Oscar Shortt. Very different moving/stopped profiles. Frank is 73% 27% while Oscar is 60% 40%.


He's pretty much on the home straight and will make the party. Top Effort.
Im looking forward to hearing his debrief and how this compared to previous ultras, in particular earlier editions of TCR.
From the reports filtering through, the dog chases seem to have been a little more prevalent this year, and the CP4 parcour with mixed weather for different riders, was a real challenge.

He's pulled quite a way ahead of Oscar now. About an hour ago the tracker was suggesting that Oscar may have taken a wrong turn. But then it also showed his speed at 80kmh-1, so I suspect it Might Not Be Trustworthy. Oscar is shown as stationary at the moment.

There are two ways you can get exercise out of a bicycle: you can
"overhaul" it, or you can ride it.  (Jerome K Jerome)