Author Topic: ACP Randonneur 10k - Change to requirements  (Read 1825 times)

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
ACP Randonneur 10k - Change to requirements
« on: 03 May, 2022, 09:02:27 pm »
Spotted this
https://www.audax-club-parisien.com/en/our-organizations/randonneur-10000-en/

So no more need for an SR600
Instead need a 600 BRM with 8000m of climbing

Can only see 3 on this years calendar
Devilishly Elegant
Pewits and Curlews
and the Brian Chapman

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: ACP Randonneur 10k - Change to requirements
« Reply #1 on: 03 May, 2022, 09:14:25 pm »
HK chatted with the LRM Prez about the change when she was in Oz recently. I suspect the number of SR600s ridden each year will drop somewhat.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: ACP Randonneur 10k - Change to requirements
« Reply #2 on: 03 May, 2022, 11:25:16 pm »
well that's pants

I did my super randonee 600 in 2019, my 1300km+ which was all I needed was delayed due to covid, and now they add in this other requirement

*edit*

actually this isn't a problem for me as I have completed the Bryan Chapman twice anyway. (I'm sure many others have completed over the last 5 years as well, so while the revised requirement is potentially harder than the previous, I suspect a greater number of AUKs will be qualified for this.)

Eddington  109miles

Re: ACP Randonneur 10k - Change to requirements
« Reply #3 on: 03 May, 2022, 11:33:38 pm »
Spotted this
https://www.audax-club-parisien.com/en/our-organizations/randonneur-10000-en/

So no more need for an SR600
Instead need a 600 BRM with 8000m of climbing

Can only see 3 on this years calendar
Devilishly Elegant
Pewits and Curlews
and the Brian Chapman

aside from the devilishly elegant having 10,000m of climbing, and so being a super randonee, but with now only 40 hours to complete instead of 60. It isn't actually a BRM (chosen as a BR to allow very necessary extra time I believe)

Eddington  109miles

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: ACP Randonneur 10k - Change to requirements
« Reply #4 on: 04 May, 2022, 01:01:14 am »
well that's pants

I did my super randonee 600 in 2019, my 1300km+ which was all I needed was delayed due to covid, and now they add in this other requirement

*edit*

actually this isn't a problem for me as I have completed the Bryan Chapman twice anyway. (I'm sure many others have completed over the last 5 years as well, so while the revised requirement is potentially harder than the previous, I suspect a greater number of AUKs will be qualified for this.)

From my reading if you did a SR600 before 1st november 2022 it's fine. but maybe not.
EDIT: No claim before the end of October, so you need to get your LRM 1200 in this summer.

Re: ACP Randonneur 10k - Change to requirements
« Reply #5 on: 04 May, 2022, 09:34:30 am »
Spotted this
https://www.audax-club-parisien.com/en/our-organizations/randonneur-10000-en/

So no more need for an SR600
Instead need a 600 BRM with 8000m of climbing

Can only see 3 on this years calendar
Devilishly Elegant
Pewits and Curlews
and the Brian Chapman

aside from the devilishly elegant having 10,000m of climbing, and so being a super randonee, but with now only 40 hours to complete instead of 60. It isn't actually a BRM (chosen as a BR to allow very necessary extra time I believe)

You are correct in a way.

The calendar version of the Devilishly Elegant has 10,250m of AUK climb, which having test ridden back in 2018 with the intention of a BRM I decided wasn't suitable mainly as it was PBP qualifying year.

The SR600 (60hrs) has 12,500m of AUK climb = just under 11,000m in OpenRunner which was the planner that needed to be used for this.

I have several variations of the Devilishly Elegant so will look at some of the easier options for the future. It's a bit of a kick in the teeth for us SR600 organisers as I'm sure, like me, a lot of time and effort was put into their creation in what we knew the only reward would be the occasional finishers' tales.

Zed43

  • prefers UK hills over Dutch mountains
Re: ACP Randonneur 10k - Change to requirements
« Reply #6 on: 04 May, 2022, 01:29:26 pm »
The reasoning behind this decision made me  ??? ??? ??? Super Randonnées are still a thing, but administration is now done by a club instead of a single person. Therefore we change the requirement for the ACP10k? Doesn't compute.

BRM600 events with 8000m elevation will be hard to find (I clocked 6,333m on the 2018 BCM), will be logistically much more difficult to enter and 8000m in 40 hours is a heck of a lot more difficult than 10000 in 60 hours IMO.

I earned my 1st ACP10k last year (still to be awarded), I won't be pursuing further ones.

And I can well understand the frustration this may be for the folks who spent much effort in designing a SR, esp. when only recently doing so (ARA München just released their 2nd just months ago for example). Super Randonnées are already a niche within the niche of audaxing and I'm sure now even fewer people will ride these routes.

Did ACP decide this all by themselves or did the national bodies (AUK, Randonneurs NL etc) have a say in this as well?

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: ACP Randonneur 10k - Change to requirements
« Reply #7 on: 04 May, 2022, 02:08:16 pm »
ACP has perhaps 100 club members, most of whom live in Paris. I expect about six ACPers made this decision and it doesn't really have anything to do with any national organisation. That aspect is nothing new.

Sophie Matter has been the main driver behind the SR600 and she has been easing out of ACP in the past few years. I expect the transfer of SR600 to Provence Randonneurs is part of that.

Maintaining the consistency of measuring altitude gain for different countries might be an issue. Different mapping or GPS devices/ settings will give noticeably different altitude gain data. HK and I regularly have 10% differences in altitude gain when riding together, due to using different GPS types.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: ACP Randonneur 10k - Change to requirements
« Reply #8 on: 04 May, 2022, 02:42:35 pm »
It's aw here, from her point of view anyway
https://www.superrandonnees.org/history-of-sr

Re: ACP Randonneur 10k - Change to requirements
« Reply #9 on: 04 May, 2022, 02:59:22 pm »
I'm still keen to do an SR600 before the end of the season for qualifying for the ACP R10k award.

 I'd planned to do Deano's one, but with me now moving to Viet Nam next week I'll be looking to travel to Japan or Taiwan most likely for one in September.



I was wondering if the elevation numbers on AUK BRM events ever gets passed to ACP for altitude records. I'd assume not. As mentioned the quoted elevation numbers on historic rides can often far exceed the actual elevation on the road.

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: ACP Randonneur 10k - Change to requirements
« Reply #10 on: 04 May, 2022, 03:02:23 pm »
Ssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh dinnae tell em

Re: ACP Randonneur 10k - Change to requirements
« Reply #11 on: 04 May, 2022, 04:56:03 pm »
It's aw here, from her point of view anyway
https://www.superrandonnees.org/history-of-sr

"Behind the good health of the Super Randonnées, however, lies a growing malaise affecting their organizer. Sophie has lost confidence in the ACP steering committee, whose methods and decisions she does not understand. She no longer feels recognized for her work (in addition to the SRs, she also manages, since 2017, the Flèches and the Traces Nationales). On November 1, 2021, she announced her resignation to the President of the ACP, Luc Coppin, in a letter in which she requested the transfer of the Super Randonnées to the association she chairs, Provence Randonneurs. In the same letter, Sophie affirms her desire to continue to work for the good development of Super Randonnées, in France and abroad.

"On December 18, 2021, on the proposal of its steering committee, the ACP General Assembly votes simultaneously to transfer the Super Randonnées to Provence Randonneurs, and to remove the Super Randonnées from the list of the events required for obtaining the Randonneur 10000 award."

Sophie believes in the possibility of a collaboration with the ACP (in which she stays as sympathising member), which would prevent the SRs from being withdrawn from the Randonneur 10000 award; and she tries to negotiate in this sense; but the management of the ACP refuses, on the grounds that the Randonneur 10000 award was created to promote organizations belonging to the ACP, and cannot include an organization belonging to another club. After this refusal, Sophie renounces her status as sympathising member and leaves the ACP, in March 2022."

Sounds like a bit of tit for tat...

Zed43

  • prefers UK hills over Dutch mountains
Re: ACP Randonneur 10k - Change to requirements
« Reply #12 on: 04 May, 2022, 05:55:09 pm »
That was my interpretation as well, egos and politics  :sick:

I wonder what will happen to the requirement of riding (at least) one flèche for the ACP10k as apparently those too were managed by Sophie.

Re: ACP Randonneur 10k - Change to requirements
« Reply #13 on: 04 May, 2022, 06:15:20 pm »
Swings and roundabouts here, I suppose, I doubt many will now ride my SR600 (no one has yet), but might get a few more entries for Peewhits and Curlews.

Could be tricky in other years as I'm not planning that 600 as a PBP qualifier! Maybe Andy C will resurrect the Pendle 600.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: ACP Randonneur 10k - Change to requirements
« Reply #14 on: 04 May, 2022, 08:32:49 pm »
Somebody else in the ACP will look after the Fleche.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: ACP Randonneur 10k - Change to requirements
« Reply #15 on: 05 May, 2022, 08:47:37 am »
Swings and roundabouts here, I suppose, I doubt many will now ride my SR600 (no one has yet), but might get a few more entries for Peewhits and Curlews.

Could be tricky in other years as I'm not planning that 600 as a PBP qualifier! Maybe Andy C will resurrect the Pendle 600.

I was thinking of including my SR600 in my own AAA SR award. Do the BR(M) Devilishly Elegant or the SR600 Devilishly Elegant with +20hrs for 2,500m more climb.

Re: ACP Randonneur 10k - Change to requirements
« Reply #16 on: 06 May, 2022, 10:18:34 am »

The SR600 (60hrs) has 12,500m of AUK climb = just under 11,000m in OpenRunner which was the planner that needed to be used for this.


In general, I've found OpenRunner to deliver the closest climbing figures to the AUK tool so thinking of adopting this for all non-GB AAA rides next season, but if anyone can find something that matches better I'd be glad to hear about it. RideWithGPS as used now is coming out a bit too high on average and my attempts to develop something more accurate have faltered.
“That slope may look insignificant, but it's going to be my destiny" - Fitzcarraldo

Re: ACP Randonneur 10k - Change to requirements
« Reply #17 on: 06 May, 2022, 09:48:21 pm »
In general, I've found OpenRunner to deliver the closest climbing figures to the AUK tool so thinking of adopting this for all non-GB AAA rides next season, but if anyone can find something that matches better I'd be glad to hear about it. RideWithGPS as used now is coming out a bit too high on average and my attempts to develop something more accurate have faltered.

Any AUK's working for Airbus?
https://www.intelligence-airbusds.com/imagery/reference-layers/worlddem/

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: ACP Randonneur 10k - Change to requirements
« Reply #18 on: 06 May, 2022, 10:13:40 pm »
Thing is collecting elevation data is one of the strava service is actually useful for, rwgps did say they'd improved their elevation data but presumably not through mass collection of barometric data

Sent from my IV2201 using Tapatalk


CrazyEnglishTriathlete

  • Miles eaten don't satisfy hunger
  • Chartered accountant in 5 different decades
    • CET Ride Reports and Blogs
Re: ACP Randonneur 10k - Change to requirements
« Reply #19 on: 09 May, 2022, 10:13:24 pm »
I organised the Cambrian 6C as an SR because it actually makes sense as a ride over 60 hours, requiring huge reserves of audacity and determination, but being achievable to mere mortals, whereas trying to ride it in under 40 hours would be a misery for all but the fittest riders.  The accounts of those who have ridden it are amazing, and I'm continuing to offer it despite the change of organiser.   Yes, it won't be a qualifier for some award that (in my case, if I ever went for it, would be another badge sitting in a drawer), but it will still be something that will be etched into the ledger of experience as an utterly memorable ride for those that take it on, as I am sure the other UK SRs will be. 
Eddington Numbers 128 (imperial), 178 (metric) 542 (furlongs)  113 (nautical miles)

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: ACP Randonneur 10k - Change to requirements
« Reply #20 on: 10 May, 2022, 06:00:48 pm »


So now we have 33% less time, but 80% of the same amount of climbing... That doesn't make sense. Makes it a lot harder to achieve.

Such a shame.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: ACP Randonneur 10k - Change to requirements
« Reply #21 on: 27 June, 2022, 12:57:15 pm »
Slightly off to a tangent, but I can't find a more suitable thread. I've completed the required rides (including the SR600) and need to submit my request form this year. Does anybody know how I can find my certificate number for PBP 2019? For LEL in 2017, a LRM sticker was added to the brevet card with a homologation number. None of the PBP documents I received back after PBP seem to have an equivalent.

For BRM rides it is the ACP reference that is used as the certificate number.

Eddington: 131 miles    Max square: 43x43

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: ACP Randonneur 10k - Change to requirements
« Reply #22 on: 27 June, 2022, 12:59:50 pm »
When claiming my R5000 it was just my start number and letter that  the AUK chair told me to submit, ACP sorted the rest out as far as I'm aware including my unnown 2019 Easter Arrow info

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: ACP Randonneur 10k - Change to requirements
« Reply #23 on: 27 June, 2022, 01:03:30 pm »
Yes, your rider number is the identifier for a homologated PBP.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: ACP Randonneur 10k - Change to requirements
« Reply #24 on: 27 June, 2022, 01:07:28 pm »
Brilliant. Thanks both.

Eddington: 131 miles    Max square: 43x43