gps/ gpx / map questions

[PizzaMan]

Should hopefully be getting a Garmin Edge 800 over the next few days (long story, first one I brought did not turn up  ...) I will be using an external battery pack.

Unfortunately this does not leave me much room for trial and error / testing as doing my first 600Km on Saturday (and hopefully 2nd a week later...). Someone has kindly supplied a gpx for me (thanks Androcles  ).

Few questions:-

What is best way to look over the GPX on my computer?

What is the best map to use, have the Garmin City Navigator Europe NT 2011.40, but allot of people seem to use the free maps, do people have a preference? (May also get topo maps?)

If someone uses different maps to create a GPX, will the route mess up when I transfer to my device?

Believe the 800 can have different maps on the SD card but you can select which one you want to enable?

Any other useful hint for first time user?

[Tewdric]

I use Andy Gate's superb OSM-based Munkymap on my Etrex  Legend HCx - see this thread:

Free maps for Garmin

The Legend HCx is probably still the best GPS unit for audax by the way as it uses AA batteries and you can set it to toggle between the map view and a trip computer that will display your average speed including stops, whch I find very useful.

There is a seperate GPS topic but I'm sure one of the friendly mods will move this thread across soon.  Everything you will want to know has already been asked though so look down through that topic and it will be there.

[Karla]

Should hopefully be getting a Garmin Edge 800 over the next few days (long story, first one I brought did not turn up  ...) I will be using an external battery pack.

Unfortunately this does not leave me much room for trial and error / testing as doing my first 600Km on Saturday (and hopefully 2nd a week later...). Someone has kindly supplied a gpx for me (thanks Androcles  ).

Few questions:-

What is best way to look over the GPX on my computer?

Garmin will supply their own Mapsource software, there are various free alternatives and also mapping sites on the internet (bikely, bikehike, bikeroutetoaster,...)

What is the best map to use, have the Garmin City Navigator Europe NT 2011.40, but allot of people seem to use the free maps, do people have a preference?

I've only used the free OpenStreetMap.  In the UK it's pretty good, though if your GPX is set up as a route to follow roads, you'll need to make sure you get the routable version of OSM.

(May also get topo maps?)

KISS.

If someone uses different maps to create a GPX, will the route mess up when I transfer to my device?

No.  The GPX just describes positions on the earth, which are the same whatever map you use.

Believe the 800 can have different maps on the SD card but you can select which one you want to enable?

Caveat emptor.

Any other useful hint for first time user?

Don't rely solely on a GPS device you don't properly understand on your first 600k ride!  Get a low-tech elastic band, strap the route sheet to your arm and know where you are on there.  

Also, is your GPX a route or a track?  A route marks your turns for you, but you can miss them if you don't have the GPS set up to flash them up for you.  A track is like a breadcrumb trail or a pencil line on themap, you can look at the map on the device and see yourself moving along it.  There's less to go wrong with that setup, so make sure you've got a track to follow.

[Bledlow]

I've used a few different online route planners, e.g. Bikehike, to generate tracks which I've then transferred to my satnav. I've also generated tracks in one route planner, then amended them in another, used the satnav to track routes of led rides, & tweaked them online, given my tracks (however generated) to others, who've used them in different satnavs using different maps. Every combination you can think of.

There's never been a problem. Everything seems to understand GPX tracks (NB - that's all I use  - the line on the map with a dot showing where I am. I dislike the car satnav style "take next left").

To review a track, I load the GPX into an online route planner, such as Bikehike (one of many), which enables me to view it full screen.

Some of the online maps which accept a GPX -
http://maps.the-hug.net/index.php
http://bikeroutetoaster.com/Course.aspx
http://www.bikehike.co.uk/
http://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/maps/ (uses the same software as the first one)
http://www.mapmyride.com/

There are others . . . .

[Bledlow]

The Legend HCx is probably still the best GPS unit for audax by the way as it uses AA batteries and you can set it to toggle between the map view and a trip computer that will display your average speed including stops, whch I find very useful.

It's not the only GPS that both those are true of.

[frankly frankie]

Should hopefully be getting a Garmin Edge 800 over the next few days (long story, first one I brought did not turn up  ...) I will be using an external battery pack.

I don't have direct knowledge, but it seems there can sometimes be issues with external powering.  Basically, not all mini-USB leads are equal.  If you get problems, look on this board under 'splashproof a USB connection'.

What is best way to look over the GPX on my computer?

What is the best map to use, have the Garmin City Navigator Europe NT 2011.40, but allot of people seem to use the free maps, do people have a preference? (May also get topo maps?)

People like free maps because they are free.  City Navigator is better for general road cycling use, which is not to say the free maps aren't good.  Don't waste money on Garmin Topo.

If you got City Nav on DVD, then install the Mapsource software provided and use that to view your GPX files.  If you got it on SD, and there was no software supplied with the GPS (tut! Garmin) then you have a choice of several online mapping utilities which you can upload a GPX file to.  BikeHike seems to be flavour of the month, but it's only one of many.  There are some more listed here (r-h column) but it's not a complete list by any means.

If someone uses different maps to create a GPX, will the route mess up when I transfer to my device?

No - there are a few issues when there's a map mismatch, and they're not serious at all, and in most circumstances won't even be noticeable.
If you're going to use autorouting (which personally I advise against) then the map mismatch issues may become more problematic, though still not impossible.

Believe the 800 can have different maps on the SD card but you can select which one you want to enable?

The GPS map menu will simply list all the maps available, by name, with the option to turn each one on or off.  You may find they're all 'on' by default, and there's a layering system which means the one you want may not be the top (visible) one!  So turn them all off and only turn on the one(s) you want to use.

[Biggsy]

Have the free OSM map installed as well as City Navigator.  I once found a canal and path that wasn't on CN at all, for example.

Have the contour maps as well.

[phil d]

While OSM is a fantastic resource, I find that on the Legend HCx screen (not the 800, so maybe irrelevant) there is simply too much detail, and it is difficult to distinguish between tracks and roads when on the move.  It may well be possible to "filter" the OSM detail (I must dig around this topic) but currently I prefer the (perhaps expensive) Garmin maps on SD card.

I know it's an expensive duplication (like many here, I simply love maps!) but I like Memory Map on the PC for generating / reviewing routes and tracks on the OS 1:50,000 series.

[frankly frankie]

That may be a styling/rendering thing.  If you're using Andy's maps, he is (or was, last I looked) rather fond of darkish coloured backgrounds where paler colours (or none) would work better on the 2x1 GPS screen.  The same mapping downloaded from a different source will be styled differently so may (or may not) look better.

Garmin maps seem expensive if you confine your activities to the UK - but all of Western and most of Central Europe, all at street-level detail, is a bit of a bargain however you price it, assuming you need even bits of it.  Their locking to one device is awful but presumably the policy is dictated in part by their data suppliers.

[sbseven]

While OSM is a fantastic resource, I find that on the Legend HCx screen (not the 800, so maybe irrelevant) there is simply too much detail, and it is difficult to distinguish between tracks and roads when on the move.  It may well be possible to "filter" the OSM detail (I must dig around this topic) but currently I prefer the (perhaps expensive) Garmin maps on SD card.

You could filter the OSM detail by building your own Garmin map from scratch with mkgmap but there is a relatively easy way to change the presentation layer of an existing OSM GMAPSUPP.IMG that avoids having to resort to techie stuff.

You'll need to download a program called GMapTool. This enables you to unpack the GMAPSUPP.IMG and extract the "TYP" file that defines the map's styling. You can then use an online TYP editor to adjust the colour scheme, line width and font style for any element of the map. You can even hide elements if you wish. (You may need to experiment to work out which element is which). Afterwards, use GMapTool to repack the GMAPSUPP.IMG, including the amended TYP file.

Another way to reduce clutter is to change the map detail setting on the GPS unit from the "more detail" end to the "less detail" end. Some OSM Garmin map creations use different "level codes" than Garmin's own offerings. The result can be more (too much) detail appearing on an OSM Garmin map for particular zoom values. 

[Cunobelin]

I own a 705, and am assuming that things are similar.

The map menu allows you to choose both which map and also the level of detail.

You can download the manuals from Garmin and pick up the basics while you are awaiting delivery

[andygates]

For the record, my munkymaps have topo as well as roads, and it was the weakness of the Garmin topo that directly stimulated me to make it.  

Styling, well, some work to do to refine that -- I rode LEJOG with it and some of the niggles became full-fat annoyances.  Once I get my map tools on the new comp, I'll be getting stuck in again for future updates.

[itinerant]

Pizzaman, if you want a great guide to using a Garmin 800 (or 705 etc) then go to Frank Kinlan's blog.  It saved me going mad when I first got a 705. (Which was actually a week after bumping into you at Thurso at the end of LEJOG in 2008, actually!)
http://frank.kinlan.co.uk/garmin-edge-800/dummies-guide-to-the-garmin-edge-800/

Lots of people go for OSM on this forum, which is their choice, but one which I can't understand as OSM is only as good as the info that has been put in there by individuals. I looked at an area near me and streets were missing, which is not brill.  Would you trust everything in Wikipedia?  OSM is the same thing as I understand, but I'm probably wrong. Each to their own!

[Biggsy]

Lots of people go for OSM on this forum, which is their choice, but one which I can't understand as OSM is only as good as the info that has been put in there by individuals. I looked at an area near me and streets were missing, which is not brill.  Would you trust everything in Wikipedia?  OSM is the same thing as I understand, but I'm probably wrong. Each to their own!

Things are missing from the Garmin maps too, so it's a good idea to have BOTH.

[Tewdric]

I looked at an area near me and streets were missing, which is not brill.

So put them in then!  Ride them a few times with your GPS unit, upload the tracks then put the roads on.  It's simple and addictive.  My valley is now very well mapped!

[Manotea]

Any other useful hint for first time user?

Don't rely solely on a GPS device you don't properly understand on your first 600k ride!  Get a low-tech elastic band, strap the route sheet to your arm and know where you are on there.  

First 600? First GPS? Edge800? This ^. "With knobs on". 

Take the GPS by all means but as an auxilliary nav aide to the routesheet. Now is exactly not the time to be experimenting.

[PizzaMan]

For me every ride is an experiment, my first Audax was only 25 days ago....

Also doing it on new wheels (which I have not even got yet), what could possibly go wrong (rhetorical question....)

Will defiantly not be relying solely on it, will also be using route sheets and hopefully tagging along with more experienced riders for sections. I would not like to rely solely on any one these (especially my reading of route sheets).....

I always knew I was going to need to add SD card and maps, but cannot believe Garmin sell a £350 sat nav that is so useless out of the box (surprised by how bad the basemap is...).

Little time to experiment before ride. I have put both OSM and CItyNavigator NT on my device, do people leave them both turned on at the same time?

[Manotea]

Personally I'd leave the OSM mapping disabled (actually, I'd remove it) and stick with the garmin maps until you are familiar with the system. The OSM maps are a fine freebie offereing but the garmin mapping will have fewer idiosyncracies and functions such as follow road routing will 'just work'.

[frankly frankie]

+1

I always knew I was going to need to add SD card and maps, but cannot believe Garmin sell a £350 sat nav that is so useless out of the box (surprised by how bad the basemap is...).

I suppose the alternative would be for them to sell a dozen different model variants, each with a different mapset on, and then people would be wailing about how they had bought the wrong one and nobody told them ...

The problem is that mapping is now sold in huge chunks which seem expensive - there's not really a modern equivalent to buying the 2 or 3 OS sheets useful to your area*, and then building up your map library piecemeal, and then, after 5 years or so, buying replacement sheets for the ones that are worn ragged or are out of date (is that really a better way of doing it?).

* and finding that your home is on the corner of four sheets, as mine is

[drossall]

The Legend HCx is probably still the best GPS unit for audax by the way as it uses AA batteries and you can set it to toggle between the map view and a trip computer that will display your average speed including stops, whch I find very useful.

How do you do that? I've got a Vista HCx. By toggle do you mean I need to press something, or it cycles automatically (pun intended)?

[Wowbagger]

From the main menu, <Setup> <Page Seq> and then decide which pages you want to display.

[PizzaMan]

Starting to get my head round my new unit. Do people find it best to use gpx or tcx??

[Wowbagger]

Starting to get my head round my new unit. Do people find it best to use gpx or tcx??

I invariably use .gpx. I've never even tried .tcx.

[Greenbank]

For my Edge 705 (so I assume the same for an 800) I use a GPXX format from routes created on bikehike.co.uk, you download them as .gpx files but they're quite different from normal gpx files as used by eTrexes or older GPSes.

I also download it as a track (as a .gpx file) to display on the map.

GPXX route for routing purposes, GPX track as a backup. Turn off (route) Recalulation.

I've never used .tcx files.

[Bledlow]

Starting to get my head round my new unit. Do people find it best to use gpx or tcx??

I invariably use .gpx. I've never even tried .tcx.

+1. But I don't have a Garmin, which may make a difference.