Author Topic: New and Deleted AUK Permanent Events  (Read 108104 times)

Re: New and Deleted AUK Permanent Events
« Reply #75 on: 23 February, 2016, 12:32:27 am »
New 200km perm' from Broken Cross. The Hollies

http://www.aukweb.net/perms/detail/JPE06/

View route http://www.gpxeditor.co.uk/routes2/users/jayp/TheHollies210km

You can't mean ...

    You do mean ...

         Oh no.

Stop-off for many a university climbing club trip.
The only place I've ever known to have *two* CCTV cameras pointing at the till drawer - and none elsewhere.
Glory-holes in the bogs, and graffiti warning you to "Beware of the gay limbo dancer" - with an arrow for the hard-of-thinking, pointing to the gap under the cubicle door.
Staff who would roundly abuse some of our more, um, delicate members (FORRINS, y'see, not familiar with the rough etiquette of a BRITISH transport caff) for the crime of asking for a salad.
At least one staff member (I kid you not, I'm sure her name *was* Lil) who would come out from the kitchen, fag in mouth, and as her one concession to food safety, stub it out in the ashtray on the serving counter rather than let the ash fall into the frying trays.
Staff who nearly succumbed to apoplexy if you weren't fast enough in collecting your order ("Beans on two. ... Beans On Two ... I said BEANS on TWO! ... Ooo ordered beans on TWO!?!).

Hmm. I'm tempted to go back. A bit. It was *very* cheap.

JayP

  • You must be joking
Re: New and Deleted AUK Permanent Events
« Reply #76 on: 25 February, 2016, 11:26:03 am »
New 200km perm' from Broken Cross. The Hollies

http://www.aukweb.net/perms/detail/JPE06/

View route http://www.gpxeditor.co.uk/routes2/users/jayp/TheHollies210km

You can't mean ...

    You do mean ...

         Oh no.

Stop-off for many a university climbing club trip.
The only place I've ever known to have *two* CCTV cameras pointing at the till drawer - and none elsewhere.
Glory-holes in the bogs, and graffiti warning you to "Beware of the gay limbo dancer" - with an arrow for the hard-of-thinking, pointing to the gap under the cubicle door.
Staff who would roundly abuse some of our more, um, delicate members (FORRINS, y'see, not familiar with the rough etiquette of a BRITISH transport caff) for the crime of asking for a salad.
At least one staff member (I kid you not, I'm sure her name *was* Lil) who would come out from the kitchen, fag in mouth, and as her one concession to food safety, stub it out in the ashtray on the serving counter rather than let the ash fall into the frying trays.
Staff who nearly succumbed to apoplexy if you weren't fast enough in collecting your order ("Beans on two. ... Beans On Two ... I said BEANS on TWO! ... Ooo ordered beans on TWO!?!).

Hmm. I'm tempted to go back. A bit. It was *very* cheap.


LMAO! Yes that all sounds about right. It was  known locally as ' Greasy Lil's'.

But you won't be the only audaxer to remember it from those days. It was a control on the Cambrian 600 run by Sheila Simpson (and later Mike Wigley). I think it was also on the Cambrian 400? - the one that had the supper stop at a pub on the Long Myndd. Anyway its rough and ready reputation was deserved and jokes were  made - but we loved it because it was open at 2 a.m., they tolerated us, we tolerated them. Don Black's comment was " I have no problem with the place. It's a transport cafe. What do you expect?" Mind you, that said, the toilets (upstairs with the truckers' sleeping accom') were a real challenge. 
I remember hanging on to the rear lights of Tiga'sTaxi's (OTP) peleton as they flew down Watling Street. We filled the cafe and soon were all dozing heads on folded arms. The staff were reverentially quite and turned the radio off.
Amazingly though the Hollies was not the jewel-in-the-crown of squalor on those rides. It was beaten hands down by the public toilet adjacent to Dinky's (al fresco) Dina in the lay-by nr Shrewsbury. The words do not exist!

These days it's a different story. New management and smart  re-fit. Includes a bar area. Very Clean but still Cheap and Tasty. Excellent. I was there on Monday this week checking out the new perm' which teams up the Hollies with the Raven. How good can it get?
 :thumbsup:

Re: New and Deleted AUK Permanent Events
« Reply #77 on: 11 July, 2016, 08:51:02 pm »
These days it's a different story. New management and smart  re-fit. Includes a bar area. Very Clean but still Cheap and Tasty. Excellent.

Open 24 hours except from Saturday 8pm until Sunday 6am I understand.  Plush but not quite so convenient for the weekend long distance Audaxer, and one of the reasons for the demise of the Cambrian 600.  Progress I suppose.

Re: New and Deleted AUK Permanent Events
« Reply #78 on: 11 July, 2016, 11:26:53 pm »
It's even got a website. Blimey. Progress indeed.

JayP

  • You must be joking
Re: New and Deleted AUK Permanent Events
« Reply #79 on: 21 October, 2016, 11:49:41 am »
The December 200km  St Lucy's Brevet is now also available as a perm.
 
www.aukweb.net/perms/detail/JPE07/







iddu

  • Are we there yet?
Re: New and Deleted AUK Permanent Events
« Reply #80 on: 05 March, 2017, 10:39:07 pm »
New perm, if you have nothing on your dance card.

Les Loins (sic) et EWE

A pleasant little trundle, with some ups, downs, flat, maybe lions, if you don't pay attention, darkness and grumps.

I'd offer you some moral support - but I have questionable morals.

Re: New and Deleted AUK Permanent Events
« Reply #81 on: 26 May, 2017, 09:54:51 am »
Starting from New Alresford in Hampshire, visit all EIGHT of the visible White Horses in Wiltshire. plus the Bronze Age original at Uffington which is (just) in Oxfordshire, and a gentle run back along the Avon & Itchen valleys

300 km Perm: Le Tour des Neufs Chevaux Blancs

A slightly contrived route with rather too many controls if you are doing it with paper Proof-of-Passage but GPS validation is available


whosatthewheel

Re: New and Deleted AUK Permanent Events
« Reply #82 on: 20 July, 2017, 09:26:33 am »
Starting from New Alresford in Hampshire, visit all EIGHT of the visible White Horses in Wiltshire. plus the Bronze Age original at Uffington which is (just) in Oxfordshire, and a gentle run back along the Avon & Itchen valleys

300 km Perm: Le Tour des Neufs Chevaux Blancs

A slightly contrived route with rather too many controls if you are doing it with paper Proof-of-Passage but GPS validation is available



Not possible to start from the northern point of the route? For those living north of Swindon saves petrol miles and a loop is a loop

Re: New and Deleted AUK Permanent Events
« Reply #83 on: 20 July, 2017, 09:33:36 am »
Fairly sure Peter is happy for you to start at any control (or possibly anywhere on the route) but no doubt he'll be along in a bit to confirm or deny.

Re: New and Deleted AUK Permanent Events
« Reply #84 on: 20 July, 2017, 11:29:36 am »
Not possible to start from the northern point of the route? For those living north of Swindon saves petrol miles and a loop is a loop

No problem to choose your start/finish point.   It can be one of the existing controls, or specify your own if you want.
If you choose your own you'll need to:
* start and finish at the same point
* still visit all the other controls in the same order.
Thus if you start north of Swindon your first 'control' will be Royal Wootton Bassett, and the last will be Uffington, before returning to your start point.

The justification is a little more subtle than 'a loop is a loop'
Visiting the controls in order is part of it and putting in a start/finish that's not on the provided route is equivalent to 'advisory routing' between (in this case) Uffington and RWB

BTW This is one route that doesn't really 'work' in the reverse direction because you'll almost certainly miss seeing several of the white horses.

whosatthewheel

Re: New and Deleted AUK Permanent Events
« Reply #85 on: 20 July, 2017, 11:36:20 am »
Thanks

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: New and Deleted AUK Permanent Events
« Reply #86 on: 21 July, 2017, 07:39:55 pm »
Wot no climbing figure?? [see concurrent thread :) ]

And

why 15kph, not 14.3?
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: New and Deleted AUK Permanent Events
« Reply #87 on: 21 July, 2017, 10:26:30 pm »
Because 14.3 vs 15kph is at the organiser's discretion for a BR, and 'organiser's discretion' in this instance means 'Peter's whim'?

Re: New and Deleted AUK Permanent Events
« Reply #88 on: 22 July, 2017, 07:04:09 am »
Not having a pop at the Org as he's acting entirely within the Rules, but this is another example of AUK operating in a manner that actively puts off and confuses newer and potential members. Every time a new or potential new member looks at one of our rides we should want their reaction to be "wow, I'd really like to try that"; instead, we confuse and bewilder by having rules that are inconsistent and explanations, guidance and FAQs that are opaque.
Eddington Number = 132

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: New and Deleted AUK Permanent Events
« Reply #89 on: 22 July, 2017, 02:40:04 pm »
Because 14.3 vs 15kph is at the organiser's discretion for a BR, and 'organiser's discretion' in this instance means 'Peter's whim'?
So do you know the reason for Peter's whim?

(I've always found him to be a reasonable man in practical matters - and whimsical when appropriate :) )


[You may be surprised to learn that as a Perm organiser myself, I am aware of the regs on this matter.]
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: New and Deleted AUK Permanent Events
« Reply #90 on: 22 July, 2017, 06:45:40 pm »
Because 14.3 vs 15kph is at the organiser's discretion for a BR, and 'organiser's discretion' in this instance means 'Peter's whim'?
So do you know the reason for Peter's whim?

(I've always found him to be a reasonable man in practical matters - and whimsical when appropriate :) )


Absolutely no idea at all!

Quote
[You may be surprised to learn that as a Perm organiser myself, I am aware of the regs on this matter.]

[You are unlikely to be surprised to learn that I was being a smart-arse.]

Re: New and Deleted AUK Permanent Events
« Reply #91 on: 22 July, 2017, 07:30:01 pm »
Not having a pop at the Org as he's acting entirely within the Rules, but this is another example of AUK operating in a manner that actively puts off and confuses newer and potential members.

O RLY?

I strongly suspect that the set of 'newer and potential members' who are i) interested in perms, ii) notice that there may be different minimum speeds and therefore time limits, iii) regard an explanation of 'it's at the organiser's discretion' as opaque, and iv) find this actively off-putting is, er, nil.

I am quite prepared to be convinced otherwise, but would rather that was through the medium of evidence rather than sniping.

IOW, citation needed.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: New and Deleted AUK Permanent Events
« Reply #92 on: 22 July, 2017, 07:34:27 pm »

[You are unlikely to be surprised to learn that I was being a smart-arse.]
Fair enough  :thumbsup:
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: New and Deleted AUK Permanent Events
« Reply #93 on: 22 July, 2017, 08:42:24 pm »
Not having a pop at the Org as he's acting entirely within the Rules, but this is another example of AUK operating in a manner that actively puts off and confuses newer and potential members.

O RLY?

I strongly suspect that the set of 'newer and potential members' who are i) interested in perms, ii) notice that there may be different minimum speeds and therefore time limits, iii) regard an explanation of 'it's at the organiser's discretion' as opaque, and iv) find this actively off-putting is, er, nil.

I am quite prepared to be convinced otherwise, but would rather that was through the medium of evidence rather than sniping.

IOW, citation needed.

I was interested in Perms & DIYs from my first day as a newbie because I work 2 to 3 weekends a month so frequently go v. long spells between Calendar events in the right geographical area on my non-working weekends. It took me well over a year to work out the rules for DIYs, then only got there in the end because an old-hand was kind enough to spend an hour talking me through it in baby steps.

Even after several years I recently had to post a question on here re. whether a time limit for a mandatory route DIY that came in at 520km would be calculated based on 500/14.3 or 520/14.3 because I found both the rules and the FAQs opaque on this (thx LWaB for answering that one for me).

And much though I'd like to make use of mandatory route ECEs, after several attempts to work them out I've given up trying - neither rules nor FAQs make sense.

Write me off as dim (or a "sniper") if you like, but I suspect I'm not alone.

Speaking personally, as the national body for long distance cycling, I think AUK should be trying harder to be clear, to be welcoming and to be inclusive.
Eddington Number = 132

Re: New and Deleted AUK Permanent Events
« Reply #94 on: 23 July, 2017, 10:08:07 am »
Thanks for that cogent reply.

On the general point about inconsistencies and lack of clarity, yes, there are many areas where the drafting could be better. That's a product of the way rules and regulations have developed incrementally, and is something that the board is more than aware of.

We are looking at them in an attempt to restructure and revise for clarity (yay! Another subcommittee!), but that's starting with the articles (to get the underpinnings right), and isn't going particularly quickly (because we're all volunteers) - I imagine that there will be revisions in time for the AGM.

As for the specifics you mention, I'm a bit surprised you've found ECE issues confusing. It's a little while since I've ridden one, but I found it fairly straightforward - and Martin responsive to queries. (The only real difficulty I had was trying to break the system by linking two calendar events, which understandably isn't covered ...)

What was the problem you found with a mandatory route ECE?

Re: New and Deleted AUK Permanent Events
« Reply #95 on: 23 July, 2017, 03:16:55 pm »
If another cook wouldn't spoil the broth I'd be happy to volunteer to help with drafting / redrafting - I have no particular / professional expertise to offer, but a general willingness to help.

Re. ECEs, I have no doubt that once you've figured it out it's straightforward - the problem is figuring it out from scratch based only on the text available. What I hoped (still hope) to do is to ride both before and after a Calendar ride, mandatory routes, perhaps of different lengths so I could stack the "before" (I like early starts). Figuring out what the rules are re. cutoffs completely defeated me, despite posting on here for help (as a full value rider cutoffs really matter, especially as slack needs to be allowed between the "before" leg and the start of the Cal).
Eddington Number = 132

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: New and Deleted AUK Permanent Events
« Reply #96 on: 23 July, 2017, 04:21:05 pm »
The range of events that AUK cover is enormous. So inevitably the "rulebook" is pretty big! But I have seen sports with far less variety, and just as many rules, worse written than ours.

I love ECEs and have ridden quite a few. I think you've just been unlucky in that you've picked a pretty obscure corner of our Broad Church, where rules of above-average complexity are required to allow riders to create rides of almost infinite variety! It doesnt matter how easy we make ECEs to understand/enter - they will always be a minority interest compared to calendar 100/200s etc etc.

[Have you tried the rules for Easter Arrows yet?? :P ]

p.s. if Pete is still reading this thread:
<snip>

why 15kph, not 14.3?
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: New and Deleted AUK Permanent Events
« Reply #97 on: 23 July, 2017, 04:25:02 pm »
Some folk see 14.3 as less 'appropriate' for Audax rides than 15 kph. No idea if that is the case here.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: New and Deleted AUK Permanent Events
« Reply #98 on: 23 July, 2017, 07:27:35 pm »
What I hoped (still hope) to do is to ride both before and after a Calendar ride, mandatory routes, perhaps of different lengths so I could stack the "before" (I like early starts). Figuring out what the rules are re. cutoffs completely defeated me,

All easy enough - and the fact that it's mandatory route shouldn't make much difference, though the mandatory route statement in the FAQ is a bit woolly.

Plan your route - front loaded, back heavy, it doesn't matter, and send Martin a link to it - RWGPS, GPXEditor, whatever your preferred site is, along with your ECE entry. Ride. Send him your GPX and, if necessary, proof of completing the calendar event.

That should be it.

As for time limits, you get the actual length of your ECE, plus the nominal length of the calendar event, all at 14.3kph (or less if you're going over 699km).

Say you're in need of a 400, booked to ride a somewhat overlength 200 of 222km, and wanted to both front load it and get in some extra bonus miles, so were going to ride 135km before, and 90km home. You'd get (135+200+90km)/14.3kph, which I make 29 hrs 43 mins.

Conveniently, despite being well overlength at 447km, that's almost exactly 15kph overall. Start time may be left as an exercise for the reader ...

Re: New and Deleted AUK Permanent Events
« Reply #99 on: 24 July, 2017, 06:40:51 am »
:thumbsup:
Eddington Number = 132