Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Rides and Touring => Topic started by: Canardly on 29 June, 2023, 10:24:22 pm
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The YHA is to sell 20 of its remaining 150 hostels. An end of an era perhaps?
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I reckon the era ended a while ago, but it's still sad to see it happen.
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I reckon the era ended a while ago, but it's still sad to see it happen.
I'm not sure when the era was.
When I was regularly hostelling the era apparently ended when they allowed hostelers to arrive by car.
Opening modern, comfortable, city centre hostels also ended the era.
Being unable to randomly cycle / trek between hostels with no more planning than a glance at the handbook was the end of the era too.
The YHA has certainly lost its way, and no longer seems to know what its purpose is. When that identify crisis began is a good question.
This round of proposed sell offs confirms the lack of direction, purpose and identify.
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I suspect the era ended when teens from the UK chose to go on holiday to Europe rather than the UK countryside. At that point the YHA started to pivot to international backpackers who want to be in city centres rather than in the wilds which the YHA was set up for. Add in foot and mouth and some other external impacts along with changing expectations e.g. not dorms and some of the traditional rural sites became less and less viable.
The issue is that once you start to loose some key locations e.g. Copt Oak near Loughborough1 then the connectivity of the network breaks, at which point you loose further guests as tours are no longer practical.
1 It was a 40 mile ride on the day to Copt Oak and then a further 40 miles on the day out, the longest two days on our Ascot - Manchester tour.
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Every YHA I’ve stayed in (which admittedly isn’t many) has had the warmth and charm on the inside of a dentist’s waiting room or a young offender’s institute. Something really unsettling about their interior decor/lighting choices. Food was shit too.
You can’t complain about larger trends when your product offering is so terrible.
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I reckon the era ended a while ago, but it's still sad to see it happen.
I'm not sure when the era was.
When I was regularly hostelling the era apparently ended when they allowed hostelers to arrive by car.
Opening modern, comfortable, city centre hostels also ended the era.
Being unable to randomly cycle / trek between hostels with no more planning than a glance at the handbook was the end of the era too.
The YHA has certainly lost its way, and no longer seems to know what its purpose is. When that identify crisis began is a good question.
This round of proposed sell offs confirms the lack of direction, purpose and identify.
The "Rule 1" debate that raged in the 60s .. . I think my last YHA bednight was in about 1968
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A very good friend of mine was a YHA warden for many years and was also a life-member. She wants nothing more to do with the YHA these days and put her membership card through the shredder some years ago.
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I use them regularly, I'm staying at one next week. The big thing for me is the location, I'm into hiking and can walk from the front door which I like.
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I am still a member. I have used them occasionally when away for work and unable to book a convenient hotel within the expenses budget. Most recent stay was Cheddar. I don’t think I saw or heard another guest for the duration of my stay.
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My late brother would have been saddened.
After gaining his physics (it was probably more defined than that) degree, he took up post in the Fylingdales golf balls on the N Yorks Moors. Never talked about his work, but after after three years, and much dope smoking, declared 'fuck this', and took up the post of warden of Boggle Hole YH.
He became a much happier person.
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I recall doing a school trip to Yorkshire in 1972, staying at Aysgarth falls, York, Grinton Lodge and Saltburn Youths Hostels. I’m guessing none of these even exist today. Sad times.
A
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The YHA has certainly lost its way, and no longer seems to know what its purpose is. When that identify crisis began is a good question.
What is that purpose?
I did a fair bit of hostelling when I started cycle touring, the majority of the clientele were middle aged to older men (And it was mostly men) with anyone under 40 considered a youth. All my favourites are gone, or converted to cater for school parties, when it became impossible to string enough together for a tour I started camping. I miss them, I didn't mind the lack of facilities, the locations were often fantastic and the low cost was a huge benefit. Even so, it'd be hard not to understand the low occupancy rate made that unsustainable, or think catering for the likes of me was ever the intended purpose. The YHA are saying this round of closures is partly due to the lockdown losses, they didn't have much control over that. I also read that the majority of their income (90% I think) came from 60% of their hostels. Faced with that, it's understandable they'd close some to concentrate on others. Although I haven't seen anything that says so, I'd put money on the profitable ones being those that most appeal to school parties, that does seem to be the core business and it's arguable it's closer to the original purpose than the situation when I was hostelling.
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I see the end of chores before your day out started isn’t when the rot set in. ;)
I’ve enjoyed hostels when young (hiking), with the kids and cycling. These days I’m less fussed about carrying ingredients for cooking for myself. And, as others have said, finding a string of hostels with a room available involves bigger distances than it used to. I’m also better off these days and can choose something fancier, or glampier, than a hostel. So I’ll still look at them, but alongside other places.
One popped up when I was looking for a place in York earlier on.
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I recall doing a school trip to Yorkshire in 1972, staying at Aysgarth falls, York, Grinton Lodge and Saltburn Youths Hostels. I’m guessing none of these even exist today. Sad times.
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York and Grinton Lodge are still available as hostels, Aysgarth and Saltburn are sadly no longer with us.
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We just had a very enjoyable 3 night stay at the YHA Berwick upon Tweed. We chose the hostel rather than trying to find a hotel or B&B as the building is fantastic, in a nice location and (having been before) we knew it had a decent bike shed. Although we booked a 2 bed room, we were allocated a 6 bed - so plenty of space to spread out (it is amazing how much floor area you can cover with the contents of four panniers!). Yes the room is a bit basic with bunk beds, but we had a functional shower room and also of course access to the hostel kitchen (very well equipped, plenty of room for lots of people) and dining area in the old attic. The ground floor bar/reception area is definitely more interesting than many hotels so we chilled out there quite a lot in the evenings.
Our fellow guests were a varied lot, mostly older. but it was midweek.
So for us a good option, and we would stay again if in the area. I suspect though this one is a bit of a "jewel in the YHA crown" as the building is very special.
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We try to use them but often with the two of us and a toddler and AirBNB is often cheaper.
You'd think we'd be a good market for them, travelling on foot / by train, youngish family but when a premier inn or whole flat is less money I know which one i'd pick.
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Mrs TB and I have had 2 YHA-based hols this year and will be off again soon to Blaxhall in Suffolk. We like the YHA very much
Cons:
- too many seem to be unbookable, given over almost entirely to groups, it seems
Pros:
- remarkably inexpensive - can often book out a private room for about £70 / night.
- generous cancellation policy
- mattresses of the same firmness and quality everywhere. They always work for Mrs TB who has back probs and arthritic limbs
- self-catering facilities mean further cash savings and much greater feeling of freedom. We dislike being tied to pub meals and the like
- communal areas, gardens etc give a greater feeling of space
- staff almost universally friendly, helpful and co-operative
- unusual locations, often highly scenic
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Pros:
- remarkably inexpensive - can often book out a private room for about £70 / night.
Our Berwick room was £60 a night midweek - that was the 2 bed room rate but as already said we actually got a 6. Looking at the floor plans they only have three 2 bed rooms I think (plus two accessible rooms)
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I suspect the era ended when teens from the UK chose to go on holiday to Europe rather than the UK countryside. At that point the YHA started to pivot to international backpackers who want to be in city centres rather than in the wilds which the YHA was set up for. Add in foot and mouth and some other external impacts along with changing expectations e.g. not dorms and some of the traditional rural sites became less and less viable.
The issue is that once you start to loose some key locations e.g. Copt Oak near Loughborough1 then the connectivity of the network breaks, at which point you loose further guests as tours are no longer practical.
1 It was a 40 mile ride on the day to Copt Oak and then a further 40 miles on the day out, the longest two days on our Ascot - Manchester tour.
Copt Oak's 'Motorway' rubber stamp struck me as WEIRD.
'Your Motorway Youth Hostel' in the strapline made me baulk as a cyclist. It was a fairly recently opened YH IIRC...
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I think some of the Child Protection guidelines have created problems.
I don't think you can mix school parties with casual travellers any longer. This HUGELY restricts availability to the casual traveller. I did a mostly solo LEJOG, staying in Youth Hostels as much as possible, in 1986.
It wasn't easy, even then...
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Years ago, Jan and I went to a YH in Norfolk - Sheringham IIRC. I had checked the website and it said it was open and had spare places. When we got there, there was indeed a school party but they let us stay.
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Copt Oak's 'Motorway' rubber stamp struck me as WEIRD.
'Your Motorway Youth Hostel' in the strapline made me baulk as a cyclist. It was a fairly recently opened YH IIRC...
It seems to have opened in 1959 according to https://www.geograph.org.uk/article/Former-youth-hostels-of-Great-Britain/3
It would have been fairly local to me - and is there as a private house.
Another site gives it as having 18 beds ( https://youthhostelsguide.com/hostels/view/48) although I question that site's reliability as it shows it as still open!
The route of the M1 through Leicestershire was fiercely debated and it may be the result of this battle that led to some local pride in having the route close by and hence the strap line (seems weird now, but in 1965 carmaggedon was on the ascendency)
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I reckon the era ended a while ago, but it's still sad to see it happen.
I'm not sure when the era was.
My late great Aunt was a walker and YHA user in the 1930s. From her diaries seems like it filled a need then
There are still some YHA in amazing places, like Kings near Dolgellau
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It's a shame but I think they've been out evolved by the Premier Inn and AirB&B markets.
If I'm travelling en famille, I don't want to stay in a hotel. Often we need 2 rooms (expensive), or we are all shoved in one tiny room with no option of going to bed at different times. I also don't want to be tied to expensive hotel or restaurant food, and would rather not have to subsist on sandwiches or meal deals eaten perched on the edge of the bed.
A hostel with a well equipped kitchen is ideal but for not much more you can have, as PPs have said, an entire AirBnB. Hostel availability is also challenging, and I'm not sure how I would feel with my kids sharing dorms with randoms, even if I am with them. I wonder if increasing regulation of AirBnBs will change things?
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The two I've stayed at in the past few years (Loch Ossian and Glen Affric) are both the only accommodation in the area (it is a 3-4 walk to get there by the shortest route).
Two others that I have stayed at have both closed since I stayed there.
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I've only stayed in 2 YHs in the last 10 years; both in the Peaks. They are now remarkably similar to the NL versions (Stayokay) which have also evolved over the last 25 years to become more mainstream (and they are always full!)
IIRC the one in Edale had a youth bookings only bit which the general public were barred from.
I've booked a proper HI hostel (dorm bunk) in France for next month it was £25 not sure how that compares with YHA
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I'd say £25 for a dorm is high compared to YHA but where is the hostel. In town or rural?
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I'd say £25 for a dorm is high compared to YHA but where is the hostel. In town or rural?
centre of Millau the next cheapest room is £50
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Just had a quick look. "Bed in a shared room" in Bristol is £20, in Bath is £28, and in Canterbury is £40.
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Copt Oak's 'Motorway' rubber stamp struck me as WEIRD.
'Your Motorway Youth Hostel' in the strapline made me baulk as a cyclist. It was a fairly recently opened YH IIRC...
It seems to have opened in 1959 according to https://www.geograph.org.uk/article/Former-youth-hostels-of-Great-Britain/3
It would have been fairly local to me - and is there as a private house.
Another site gives it as having 18 beds ( https://youthhostelsguide.com/hostels/view/48) although I question that site's reliability as it shows it as still open!
The route of the M1 through Leicestershire was fiercely debated and it may be the result of this battle that led to some local pride in having the route close by and hence the strap line (seems weird now, but in 1965 carmaggedon was on the ascendency)
The M1 did seem to be a Wonderful Thing in the early 60s.
Dad commuted from our home in Leicester, to work at AEI in Rugby every day and it got the family bak to London to visit his widowed mother very efficiently. Carmageddon wasn't really A Thing...
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My first YHA experience was in a school party of 10yr olds (led by a scoutmaster, it was a prep school with its own scout troop) going round the IoWight. Lots of chores making the sandwiches. It didn't really switch me on to hostelling, I preferred camping (only to be expected when you're only 10, camping seemed so much more fun).
In the early 70's I joined the junior section of the local YHA group in Cheltenham and that was what got me into cycle-touring (and also club cycling and, much too briefly, TTing).
In 2009 I brought a small group over to N Wales from my french club, intending to use hostels to keep the price reasonable. It was at that stage that I learnt how much the hostelling scene had changed. Our mix ended up with three hostels (Liverpool, Llanberis and Chester), one pub b and b (Prestatyn) and one independant hostel (Bala). The closest we got to the hostel atmosphere that I remembered from my youth was at Bala!
I have never stayed in a youth hostel in France or even researched the idea. I did a FFCT training course at one in Brive but it didn't seem to have much in common with the YHA. I think the FAJ hostels are probably a bit far apart and probably car-orientated as well. Camping is so much more accessible and more fun as well.
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Apparently the changes in youth hostels are not down to them either being taken over by school parties or becoming boutique hotels – it's the fault of the hippies in "the long sixties" wanting to hang out, fall off, tune over and smoke dope.
During what British cultural historian Arthur Marwick has called the “long sixties”, the profound shifts that reshaped western European and north American societal attitudes led to an explosion of youth travel across the world. YHA hostels, though, could not keep up.
With hostel stays largely structured around booze bans, curfews and chores, the YHA appeared old-fashioned and out of date. By contrast, a new, more commercially focused breed of hostels was emerging that understood young travellers’ changing needs.
Independent guesthouses and hostels emerged on the hippie trail, including the Pudding Shop in Istanbul and Mumbai’s New Vasantashram. They offered visitors greater freedom and more privacy, with longer opening hours and more flexible sleeping arrangements. On site, travellers could buy cheap food, bus tickets, packaged trips and tours, alcohol and even hashish.
https://theconversation.com/youth-hostels-face-tough-times-but-they-are-perfect-for-authentic-spontaneous-experiences-213121
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I'd say £25 for a dorm is high compared to YHA but where is the hostel. In town or rural?
Average cost of a dorm bed in a local council albergue on the Portuguese Camino was €15. Private albergues would be around €20 - €25.
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I was 25 a night at Wooler the wothrr week.
I expect syha to be between 18 and 30 for a bunk in shared room depending on where it is.
Theyre mostly munro Bagger central
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Travel lodge £25-28 for a double at moment depending on location. YHA used be price and location. Now it’s more about location.
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Travel lodge £25-28 for a double at moment depending on location.
YHA shared dorm is still good value for a solo traveller.
And the YHA still maintain single sex dorms, which some independent hostels do not.
But the main reason I use YHA and other hostels is for the self-catering kitchens - I do like to prepare my own food.
And the usually secure bike sheds.
Best value this year was SYHA. £13 a night in a shared 6 bed dorm in Oban, with fabulous views over the Sound of Kerrera.
Over the late Spring Bank Holiday.