Apostophy?

[starkj73]

Would it be possible to have this money offset against Johns payments?

Johns or John's?

There is no letter missing so I assume Johns.

[mrcharly-YHT]

The payments belong to John.

John's

[Riggers]

+1

[loadsabikes]

+1 John's

[Clare]

The payments belong to John.

John's

Or more than one John:


Johns'

[Nuncio]

And if we're being picky: Apostrophe.

[hatler]

A number of countries have citizens.

"The countrie's citizens" or "The countrys' citizens" or "The countries' citizens" ?

As in, does this follow the format of "The children's money" where children is the plural so the apostrophe comes before the final 's', because 'countries' is a non-standard plural of 'country' ?

[HTFB]

One country's citizens. Several countries' citizens.

It's not whether the plural is regular, it's whether it ends in an S. If it does, the possessive apostrophe follows the S.

[starkj73]

Would it be possible to have this money offset against Johns payments?

Johns or John's?

There is no letter missing so I assume Johns.

A Gerry Rafferty song has come to my aid:

Can I have my money back, money back, money back?
Can I have my money back, please sir?


Thanks all.

[hatler]

One country's citizens. Several countries' citizens.

It's not whether the plural is regular, it's whether it ends in an S. If it does, the possessive apostrophe follows the S.

Thank you !  I don't know why I bother with Google and Wikipedia sometimes, when yacf is ever present.

[clarion]

There are letters missing.  In full, it would have said '...John his money...'.  So an apostrophe is correct.

[Peter]

One country's citizens. Several countries' citizens.

It's not whether the plural is regular, it's whether it ends in an S. If it does, the possessive apostrophe follows the S.

Thank you !  I don't know why I bother with Google and Wikipedia sometimes, when yacf is ever present.

strictly, ever-present!

This has been a good thread!  Nice touch from clarion about "his", which is what I was taught, too.   And that early Gerry Rafferty song is a great one.

Edit:  perhaps we could accept the word "apostrophy" to describe the greengrocer's (or greengrocers'!) art of using unnecessary apostrophes, e.g. banana's?

Do I hear, "Ye's"?

[hatler]

How about 'catapostrophy' ?

[Peter]

 

[citoyen]

Maybe the money is being offset against payments towards some new Johns, in which case the apostrophe would be unnecessary.

Would deliberately leaving out or misusing the apostrophe as an act of grammatical rebellion be a case of apostrophe apostasy?

d.

[Peter]

Maybe the money is being offset against payments towards some new Johns, in which case the apostrophe would be unnecessary.

Would deliberately leaving out or misusing the apostrophe as an act of grammatical rebellion be a case of apostrophe apostasy?

d.

Just realised, after all these posts, that the thread title has no "r"!  This has given me apostrophe apostasy apoplexy.

[Psychler]

One country's citizens. Several countries' citizens.

It's not whether the plural is regular, it's whether it ends in an S. If it does, the possessive apostrophe follows the S.

As in St James's Square.

Just to complicate things.......

[Peter]

This one might run...

I say and write, "St. James's Square," like you.  An increasing number use "St. James' Square", which is wrong.  It's possibly because it is slightly more difficult to say, but this sort of thing is being perpetrated increasingly by the broadcasting media.

[fred the great]

I was always taught that if it is a human "possessive" use the apostrophe always comes after the "s"

[starkj73]

St James' Park is now written as Sports Direct Arena.

Sad but true.

[citoyen]

An increasing number use "St. James' Square", which is wrong.  It's possibly because it is slightly more difficult to say, but this sort of thing is being perpetrated increasingly by the broadcasting media.

St James Park (Exeter)
St James' Park (Newcastle)
St James's Park (London)

All are equally "correct" in the appropriate context. Except the Newcastle one, for the reasons already mentioned.

d.

[frankly frankie]

I say and write, "St. James's Square," like you. 

He didn't.

As in St James's Square.

[Julian]

There are letters missing.  In full, it would have said '...John his money...'.  So an apostrophe is correct.

This has been a good thread!  Nice touch from clarion about "his", which is what I was taught, too.   And that early Gerry Rafferty song is a great one.

That is what I was taught at school too, but it's not in fact correct.  The possessive 's' is the last vestige of English as a highly inflected language.

The Old English 'stone' would look like this:

Nom.  stan (pl. stanas)

Acc. stan (pl. stanas)

Gen. stanes (pl. stana)

Dat. stane (pl. stanum)

We now just use "stone" for everything including the dative - EXCEPT the genitive which still takes an 's' ending.  The varied plural endings have been eroded and we just use the nominative 'stones' for all cases.

If we're talking about a stone containing blood, i.e. the stone's blood, it's got nothing to do with "the stone his blood" as we were all taught at school, it's a leftover ending from Anglo-Saxon.

/public service announcement

[Karla]

How interesting!  Thanks for that. 

Dammit though, you've now given me a noun endings earworm.  puella puellam puellae ...

[henshaw11]

There are letters missing.  In full, it would have said '...John his money...'.  So an apostrophe is correct.

This has been a good thread!  Nice touch from clarion about "his", which is what I was taught, too.   And that early Gerry Rafferty song is a great one.

That is what I was taught at school too, but it's not in fact correct.  The possessive 's' is the last vestige of English as a highly inflected language.

The Old English 'stone' would look like this:

Nom.  stan (pl. stanas)

Acc. stan (pl. stanas)

Gen. stanes (pl. stana)

Dat. stane (pl. stanum)

We now just use "stone" for everything including the dative - EXCEPT the genitive which still takes an 's' ending.  The varied plural endings have been eroded and we just use the nominative 'stones' for all cases.

If we're talking about a stone containing blood, i.e. the stone's blood, it's got nothing to do with "the stone his blood" as we were all taught at school, it's a leftover ending from Anglo-Saxon.

/public service announcement

I'm a bit (ok, very) rusty, but German's similar - it's the 's' of the genetive case too (but without the apostrophe)
http://german.about.com/library/blcase_gen.htm

I've never heard of the 'his' thing, but then again I don't remember being taught any grammar until learning French/German..