Author Topic: Items here now won't be there then  (Read 10833 times)

JennyB

  • Old enough to know better
Re: Items here now won't be there then
« Reply #175 on: 24 August, 2021, 09:41:43 am »

Advances in batteries will make person-portable railguns practical.
There will be about a decade of whinging about how guns aren't the same without the big bang and a 'a real man smells of gunpowder'.


There will still be gun hunters just as there are still bow hunters, At least for the ones who don't rely on it for a living. Sport, eh?
Jennifer - Walker of hills

Cudzoziemiec

  • Моя планета голубая, я люблю тебя и обнимаю
Re: Items here now won't be there then
« Reply #176 on: 06 September, 2021, 05:52:04 pm »
The Graun has caught on to the death of the wallet, including the demise of the bank card, and its replacement by the phone. More accurately, they read it in the Wall St Journal. This surely means phones are now old hat.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2021/sep/06/the-end-of-the-wallet-how-phones-replaced-cash-credit-cards-and-receipts
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

Re: Items here now won't be there then
« Reply #177 on: 06 September, 2021, 09:58:53 pm »
and when the tech fails?

Mrs Nutty had a red face moment in the shop when her Garmin watch on which she replies so much suffered a flat battery at the checkout.  She had to come home to get her purse and go back.(she was reliant on the watch).

I was in a shop the other day and the POS terminal was down when I offered up my bank card, but didn't bother me as I carry emergency cash in my wallet.  I am also in the minority who sees no point in carrying a smartphone and don't own one.

ian

  • not a woman, not an american, not a vampire
Re: Items here now won't be there then
« Reply #178 on: 06 September, 2021, 10:04:52 pm »
What happens when you forget your wallet?
Authoritarian Thought Leader, the Pol Pot of Powerpoint, the Stalin of Spreadsheets

Re: Items here now won't be there then
« Reply #179 on: 06 September, 2021, 10:45:06 pm »
I have the pocket slap down to a fine art whenever I leave the house.   "Keys, wallet, facemask", and that is repeated frequently whenever I am out so that should an item go missing I can retrace my steps to retrieve it.   On longer walks or rides the constant checks also include water-bottle, binoculars, whatever item has been brought.

After becoming a parent these checks also include whether the children are still in sight and have they lost the toys they brought out with them.

None of that relies on a smart device.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Items here now won't be there then
« Reply #180 on: 07 September, 2021, 12:18:34 am »
This is like the paper map vs GPS argument.  Which isn't really an argument, as they both do different - if overlapping - things, and have different failure modes that make them useful companions to each other.

Smart things, bank cards and cash can all be used to pay for things, unless you've left them at home, or the shop isn't able to deal with the one you want to use.  None are intrinsically better in that respect.  Phones can be located when you lose them, or bricked remotely when stolen, and do a zillion unrelated things.  Credit cards can open doors and make fraud Somebody Else's Problem.  Cash can provide anonymity, hide things from the taxman, work without electricity or boot a tyre.  All these things are useful.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Items here now won't be there then
« Reply #181 on: 07 September, 2021, 08:00:42 am »
I agree with Kim's statement about paper map vs GPS.

It won't be long before payment is taken by biometric scan, rather than relying on a device.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Tim Hall

  • Victoria is my queen
Re: Items here now won't be there then
« Reply #182 on: 07 September, 2021, 08:43:27 am »
"Could you lend me a (biometric) fiver?"
I think Shakespeare has explored that theory already.

Merchant of Venice, Act 4, Scene 1.
There are two ways you can get exercise out of a bicycle: you can
"overhaul" it, or you can ride it.  (Jerome K Jerome)

Cudzoziemiec

  • Моя планета голубая, я люблю тебя и обнимаю
Re: Items here now won't be there then
« Reply #183 on: 07 September, 2021, 09:18:50 am »
The Shakespearean mind is not constrained by the technology of the day!
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

ian

  • not a woman, not an american, not a vampire
Re: Items here now won't be there then
« Reply #184 on: 07 September, 2021, 09:25:57 am »
I agree with Kim's statement about paper map vs GPS.

It won't be long before payment is taken by biometric scan, rather than relying on a device.

Indeed, in many ways the smart device is on its own way to being redundant.

I'm stocked up with emergency cash at home, admittedly much of it might be in Ghanaian cedi. I have stopped carrying a wallet, I'm not a pockets kind of person, any unsightly bulge in my trousers is unlikely to be a wallet.

Many years ago, the local gas station wouldn't sell me a quart of milk for actual cash during a power outage, since they couldn't process the transaction through the till and seemingly didn't have the authority to process the transaction any other way.
Authoritarian Thought Leader, the Pol Pot of Powerpoint, the Stalin of Spreadsheets

Cudzoziemiec

  • Моя планета голубая, я люблю тебя и обнимаю
Re: Items here now won't be there then
« Reply #185 on: 07 September, 2021, 09:28:10 am »
I'm stocking up on glass beads just in case.
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

Re: Items here now won't be there then
« Reply #186 on: 07 September, 2021, 09:33:37 am »
and when the tech fails?

Mrs Nutty had a red face moment in the shop when her Garmin watch on which she replies so much suffered a flat battery at the checkout.  She had to come home to get her purse and go back.(she was reliant on the watch).

I'm surprised that there is not a kind of "safe mode" or "recovery mode" for when the battery is dead.

I'm not a specialist of these things, but I have a "keyless" car, which means you can get in the car and start the engine while the"key" remains in your pocket. When the battery in the"key" is dead, you can still run the car using a slightly more complex but workable procedure. I was assuming it was similar for smart watches

ian

  • not a woman, not an american, not a vampire
Re: Items here now won't be there then
« Reply #187 on: 07 September, 2021, 09:49:28 am »
There's a low power thing on an Apple Watch that shuts down everything but vital functions. No idea if it can do Apple Pay in this state, even though the watch is about three years old, it's yet to run out of battery in daily use.
Authoritarian Thought Leader, the Pol Pot of Powerpoint, the Stalin of Spreadsheets

Re: Items here now won't be there then
« Reply #188 on: 07 September, 2021, 11:21:33 am »
iPhones can do transit (i.e Oyster) swipes in and out with a dead battery but I don’t think they can authorise other payments.

I keep an emergency picture of the queen in the back of my phone case for this purpose.

ETA: It’s main use is for retailers with funny cash only / card minimums rather than dead batteries, since not letting your phone battery die is a basic personal skill in the modern world.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Моя планета голубая, я люблю тебя и обнимаю
Re: Items here now won't be there then
« Reply #189 on: 07 September, 2021, 11:23:25 am »
Making all your payments, mapping, unlocking your front door and starting your car, and other stuff by phone means only one thing to forget.
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

ian

  • not a woman, not an american, not a vampire
Re: Items here now won't be there then
« Reply #190 on: 07 September, 2021, 12:25:05 pm »
Once it is biometric, you'll have trouble leaving the house without your face.

Of course, we've all seen Face/Off.
Authoritarian Thought Leader, the Pol Pot of Powerpoint, the Stalin of Spreadsheets

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Items here now won't be there then
« Reply #191 on: 07 September, 2021, 12:29:49 pm »
It’s main use is for retailers with funny cash only / card minimums rather than dead batteries, since not letting your phone battery die is a basic personal skill in the modern world.

I'd agree with this, too.  But I suspect there are personality types involved, with some people rarely allowing their battery to drop below about 70%, and others perpetually on the brink of power saving mode.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Items here now won't be there then
« Reply #192 on: 07 September, 2021, 12:30:27 pm »
Of course, we've all seen Face/Off.

Only the first half.  It was boring and I fell asleep.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Items here now won't be there then
« Reply #193 on: 07 September, 2021, 01:13:39 pm »
We have literally just purchased a paper map in the last hour.   It seems to be working very well without a battery and bright light is not affecting our ability to see the detail.  And the screen is massive ...   

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: Items here now won't be there then
« Reply #194 on: 07 September, 2021, 01:18:00 pm »


I think the big payment providers (Visa, Mastercard, Amex) also have numbered days.

At this stage it seems unlikely, between the first 2 they hold the patents and other gubbings for the EMV* system,its even got their names in it (Eurocard, Mastercard, visa)


* aka chip and pin, but has included contactless from the early days.



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FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: Items here now won't be there then
« Reply #195 on: 07 September, 2021, 01:21:08 pm »
A contactless card is in effect a card shaped dongle when it comes to payment.
Though don't phones etc bypass the card limit and the algorithm that forces you to enter your pin ever n transactions?
They create a virtual card, if you look at the receipt after paying by bonk you'll see a final set of digits that differ from your card, there's a whole whack of stuff involved that makes them considered more secure than bonking by card, but ive not worked on it since the early days of sticking an rfid chip in a Nokia changeable cover and rfid in phones was only just appearing on the horizon.

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ian

  • not a woman, not an american, not a vampire
Re: Items here now won't be there then
« Reply #196 on: 07 September, 2021, 02:49:43 pm »
I think the big payment providers (Visa, Mastercard, Amex) also have numbered days.

At this stage it seems unlikely, between the first 2 they hold the patents and other gubbings for the EMV* system,its even got their names in it (Eurocard, Mastercard, visa)

* aka chip and pin, but has included contactless from the early days.


As I understand it, both Apple and Google circumvent EMV and in effect make it obsolete. The US never really adopted chip and pin anyway. Apple and Google effectively do away with the cards, creating one-time secure tokens for each transaction (which is very secure, there's no card to clone), there's no real need for the card or processors, since they can mediate directly with clearing to settle the transaction.

Increasingly, online retailers are offering Apple or Android Pay options, plus Amazon are muscling in with their own payment solution.
Authoritarian Thought Leader, the Pol Pot of Powerpoint, the Stalin of Spreadsheets

Re: Items here now won't be there then
« Reply #197 on: 07 September, 2021, 02:51:46 pm »
I think the big payment providers (Visa, Mastercard, Amex) also have numbered days.

At this stage it seems unlikely, between the first 2 they hold the patents and other gubbings for the EMV* system,its even got their names in it (Eurocard, Mastercard, visa)

* aka chip and pin, but has included contactless from the early days.


As I understand it, both Apple and Google circumvent EMV and in effect make it obsolete. The US never really adopted chip and pin anyway. Apple and Google effectively do away with the cards, creating one-time secure tokens for each transaction (which is very secure, there's no card to clone), there's no real need for the card or processors, since they can mediate directly with clearing to settle the transaction.

Increasingly, online retailers are offering Apple or Android Pay options, plus Amazon are muscling in with their own payment solution.
Who runs the clearing?
<i>Marmite slave</i>

ian

  • not a woman, not an american, not a vampire
Re: Items here now won't be there then
« Reply #198 on: 07 September, 2021, 04:48:49 pm »
At present the processor, but there's no reason it can't pass through an automated clearinghouse (as many electronic transactions already do), cutting the card processor out of the loop is desirable as they levy transaction and interchange fees for their networks and services. It won't happen overnight, we all have wallets full of Mastercards and Visa, plus those social deviants with Amex and Diners etc. but you have to figure the end game for Google, Apple and co is to own the payment space and both facilitate purchases and claim those interchange fees for themselves.
Authoritarian Thought Leader, the Pol Pot of Powerpoint, the Stalin of Spreadsheets

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: Items here now won't be there then
« Reply #199 on: 07 September, 2021, 05:24:00 pm »
That would need the banks to play ball, both mastercard and visa used to be owned by the banks but looks like that's no longer the case.

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