Author Topic: The Bread Thread  (Read 52180 times)

Tim Hall

  • Victoria is my queen
Re: The Bread Thread
« Reply #550 on: 11 November, 2020, 10:47:18 pm »
I made a loaf this evening.

With dried yeast. Prove for 30 minutes, knock back, shape and prove again for an hour.  Bake for 40 minutes at 220C.

So quick!  I'll see what it tastes like later.

I used Cotswold Crunch "a speciality blend of strong white flour, malted wheat flakes and malt flour for bread and rolls. " which I'd bought in Lockdown 1.0 before I'd scored my 16kg bag of Canadian super duper flour and proved it in an oval banneton. 
There are two ways you can get exercise out of a bicycle: you can
"overhaul" it, or you can ride it.  (Jerome K Jerome)

Re: The Bread Thread
« Reply #551 on: 14 November, 2020, 11:18:00 am »
Finally replaced the cooker- the gas hob was fine but the oven has been kaput for 3 or 4 years. I got fed up with being restricted to a small halogen bench-top oven, took delivery of New Cooker on Monday. Induction hob, decent oven with a steam cycle option. I'm using a pizza stone to cook the bread on.

This week I baked sourdough for the first time. A batch of 100% wholemeal, then a batch of white. Both came out OK although I have yet to master the art of shaping. They taste great though.

More practice required..........

GC

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
The Bread Thread
« Reply #552 on: 14 November, 2020, 11:28:40 am »
I made a loaf this evening.

With dried yeast. Prove for 30 minutes, knock back, shape and prove again for an hour.  Bake for 40 minutes at 220C.

So quick!  I'll see what it tastes like later.

I used Cotswold Crunch "a speciality blend of strong white flour, malted wheat flakes and malt flour for bread and rolls. " which I'd bought in Lockdown 1.0 before I'd scored my 16kg bag of Canadian super duper flour and proved it in an oval banneton.

I’ve done a few non-sourdough loaves lately. Suspect I will need to hand in my hipster card if they find out.

Mainly out of necessity, since I realised I’d run out of bread and needed something for breakfast. My standard recipe is 20% wholemeal with a good glug of olive oil - makes a nice soft sandwich loaf.

Your proving times are ridiculously quick though - I can’t match that, even with the oven’s 40° proving setting. Are you using industrial quantities of yeast or something?
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: The Bread Thread
« Reply #553 on: 14 November, 2020, 11:34:43 am »

Your proving times are ridiculously quick though - I can’t match that, even with the oven’s 40° proving setting. Are you using industrial quantities of yeast or something?

My standard proving is 25 + 25 minutes in the oven "proving" setting, then leave it in as it heats to temp (45 minutes start to de-tin + 5 minutes at the end), normal quantities of yeast (teaspoon per 500g), sub two hours end to end. I bake at least 1.5Kg of flour dough per week, as I am sure I've mentioned, one of the main reasons I don't faff about with sourdough.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: The Bread Thread
« Reply #554 on: 14 November, 2020, 11:45:37 am »
Hmmm. Could be that my yeast is duff, or maybe just a bit old and tired. It’s definitely not as fast acting though.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Tim Hall

  • Victoria is my queen
Re: The Bread Thread
« Reply #555 on: 14 November, 2020, 12:47:12 pm »
I made a loaf this evening.

With dried yeast. Prove for 30 minutes, knock back, shape and prove again for an hour.  Bake for 40 minutes at 220C.

So quick!  I'll see what it tastes like later.

I used Cotswold Crunch "a speciality blend of strong white flour, malted wheat flakes and malt flour for bread and rolls. " which I'd bought in Lockdown 1.0 before I'd scored my 16kg bag of Canadian super duper flour and proved it in an oval banneton.

I’ve done a few non-sourdough loaves lately. Suspect I will need to hand in my hipster card if they find out.

Mainly out of necessity, since I realised I’d run out of bread and needed something for breakfast. My standard recipe is 20% wholemeal with a good glug of olive oil - makes a nice soft sandwich loaf.

Your proving times are ridiculously quick though - I can’t match that, even with the oven’s 40° proving setting. Are you using industrial quantities of yeast or something?

I thought that was quick too. I just followed the recipe on the packet of flour (or until doubled in size). Three teaspoons of dried yeast.  Taste was a bit meh compared to my sour dough though.
There are two ways you can get exercise out of a bicycle: you can
"overhaul" it, or you can ride it.  (Jerome K Jerome)

Mrs Pingu

  • Who ate all the pies? Me
    • Twitter
Re: The Bread Thread
« Reply #556 on: 14 November, 2020, 12:58:18 pm »
Mine defo doesn't take 25mins. A bit quicker if I do it in the Brød & Taylor but it suggests you should only prove at 28°C if you're using commercial yeast so still not 25 plus 25 I don't think.
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Re: The Bread Thread
« Reply #557 on: 14 November, 2020, 02:46:47 pm »
I've only been baking like that for about 20 years, so maybe it isn't reliable ;)  I've been doing it that way from when I first got a Neff oven with a proving setting, as I remember (? dubious value) it didn't take me long to settle into that routine. Not that it makes any difference, but I normally use a large tin that takes 750g of flour. The first raise isn't necessarily doubled in size, but the second is, and the end product is as close to perfect as I need.

Some historic pics I've posted





That white looks like it might have a 50% uplift in yeast but will be the same time rising, the wholemeal is standard.


citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: The Bread Thread
« Reply #558 on: 14 November, 2020, 04:34:46 pm »
Three teaspoons of dried yeast.  Taste was a bit meh compared to my sour dough though.

That does sound like quite a lot of yeast to me. But it depends on the size of the loaf... Ham’s 1tsp per 500g is about the same as what I use.

Poor flavour *may* be a sign of too much yeast (but could also be other reasons).
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: The Bread Thread
« Reply #559 on: 14 November, 2020, 07:34:11 pm »
a large tin

"a stylish matt-black colourway that is sure to make it stand out in any kitchen"

The people who write these things... what are they thinking? It's a loaf tin, ffs! ;D

Does look like a good bit of kit though. As it should at that price!

And yes, going by the pictorial evidence, I don't think anyone can question your technique.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: The Bread Thread
« Reply #560 on: 14 November, 2020, 08:54:01 pm »
Hmmm. Could be that my yeast is duff, or maybe just a bit old and tired. It’s definitely not as fast acting though.

Now I'm convinced it's the yeast. I made another loaf this evening, using different yeast.

Stuck it in the oven on the proving setting then got distracted and did other stuff... Came back 45 minutes later to find it had almost tripled in volume. Oops!
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: The Bread Thread
« Reply #561 on: 14 November, 2020, 09:38:16 pm »
I iz an exoglass fanboi, I've been using the solid spatula and the flat one now named "peleton" forever. When I saw the loaf tins, I knew I couldn't justify on an economic basis but I still couldn't resist. Loaves simply slide out like excrement off a heated digging implement (although I am too scared to go cold turkey and use the very lightest smear of oil)

Re: The Bread Thread
« Reply #562 on: 22 November, 2020, 06:50:19 pm »
More sourdough today. Using the "YQ" flour from Hodomedods: https://hodmedods.co.uk/collections/flours/products/yq-wheat-flour

Thankfully they have a specific recipe for using 100% YQ flour in sourdough:  https://hodmedods.co.uk/blogs/recipes/wholegrain-sourdough-using-yq-wakelyns-population-wheat

I can confirm the recipe works a treat, even though it is a little different from conventional sourdough recipes. Which makes sense as the flour is more akin to spelt than to a hard wheat. (I used the mixer rather than hand-mix as that meant I could do the kneading whilst cooking my Sunday bacon & eggs, all worked out fine).

The result is a nicely risen loaf, and the taste is really good. Tangy (note I stir the hooch into my starter to maintain acidity), nutty, flavoursome.

I also made some Staffordshire oatcakes from the starter leavings (from refreshment) yesterday, basically add some oat milk and fine oatmeal to the waste starter to make a batter, leave for 10 min then cook in a hot griddle (frying pan) like pancakes. Top-notch flavour and texture and I suspect more authentic than using bakers yeast to leaven (staffs oatcakes being peasant food originally and bakers yeast wasn't really cheap until post-WWII).   

(Have taken delivery of a 16kg bag of YQ flour so I'm glad it works for bread as well as pastries etc!)

GC

Wowbagger

  • Sylph
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: The Bread Thread
« Reply #563 on: 25 December, 2020, 12:42:46 am »
Has anyone used a breadmaker  to make rye bread?

I've got the Panasonic 2500 and that doesn't have a rye programme - apparently the 2501 does.

I've just followed this recipe:

https://www.theideaskitchen.com.au/dark-rye-bread/

adjusted to 100g strong white to 400g rye,

but I'm going to bake it on programme 4, which is the wholemeal programme on my machine.

I have invested in a rye paddle and I've set the loaf to be ready for 1pm tomorrow. That means that I will be in the kitchen to keep an eye on the breadmaker when it's kneading it. I don't want it leaping off the surface and smashing to bits, which happened to its predecessor.

If it turns out to be a disaster, a 1pm finish gives me time to make a wholemeal loaf to be ready before tea time, which I anticipate will be pretty late tomorrow because of all the food we have planned for lunch time.
Bach without a doubt.

Wowbagger

  • Sylph
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: The Bread Thread
« Reply #564 on: 25 December, 2020, 02:51:46 pm »
It worked really well! I'm eating some now with a chunk of strong cheddar. Dense and puddingy, but that's what you want with a rye bread.
Bach without a doubt.

Re: The Bread Thread
« Reply #565 on: 30 December, 2020, 06:33:26 pm »
We make a lot of 50% rye. Its program 7 on a 2502 and only takes 3.5 hours.
Always turns out really well with either light or dark rye flour.

Made some this afternoon to go with a sausage casserole.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Re: The Bread Thread
« Reply #566 on: 30 December, 2020, 08:55:44 pm »
For Christmas I got a pizza stone and a broken door seal on the main oven. Loaves have been coming out a bit lighter, but still tasty.

Re: The Bread Thread
« Reply #567 on: 01 January, 2021, 08:03:11 pm »
Advice sort please. I use a basic 1kg strong flour, 600ml water, two sachets quick yeast, salt and dash of whatever cooking oil is to hand. Works really well when I knead by hand and tbf I normally do as enjoy it.

However sometimes when I'm in a rush or don't want to get whinged at for getting flour everywhere I use the kenwood with bread hook and it just seems to go on the hook and get whacked around. It tastes alright but find it doesn't hold its shape as I don't use tins. Hand made I can shape put on tray for mini second prove while oven heats up and get a decent shaped loaf. With the mixer it just spreads. Any suggestions. I way just not be giving it long enough but worried if over kneading
Oh and don't like tins and find they stick. I may just have crap tins

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
The Bread Thread
« Reply #568 on: 01 January, 2021, 08:23:14 pm »
However sometimes when I'm in a rush or don't want to get whinged at for getting flour everywhere I use the kenwood with bread hook and it just seems to go on the hook and get whacked around.

I have a KitchenAid rather than a Kenwood, so it may not behave exactly the same, but...

Keep it on a low speed (2/10 is recommended for the KitchenAid), and don’t knead for too long - if it starts climbing up the hook, that’s a sign it’s done. According to things I’ve read online, some people get better results when adding the liquid gradually rather than all at once.

Check the dough quantity is appropriate for the bowl capacity too.


Quote
Oh and don't like tins and find they stick. I may just have crap tins

Grease and flour. I use rye flour.

My new baking book recommends breadcrumbs instead of flour but I’ve not tried that yet.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: The Bread Thread
« Reply #569 on: 01 January, 2021, 09:35:53 pm »
For tins, you can't do better than the Matfer Exoglass. They are pricey, but with the lightest smear of oil they just turn the bread out, like magic, however wet the dough. (You can use without any oil, but then they are less magical). The eye watering cost is offset by the use they get, I bake 750g flour dough in each of the large tins - or should I say, moulds - at least weekly.

Mrs Pingu

  • Who ate all the pies? Me
    • Twitter
Re: The Bread Thread
« Reply #570 on: 01 January, 2021, 10:21:44 pm »
I have used a Kenwood Chef in the past, though not doing so at the mo because I'm only making 500g at a time and I find it's too small for the Chef. I'm only using about 250ml water but that's very flour dependant.
I find the same with the Chef hook. Have you tried mixing it til it's come together and then leaving it for 10-15mins before giving it a quick mix again?
I use silicone loaf moulds BTW.
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Re: The Bread Thread
« Reply #571 on: 02 January, 2021, 10:31:25 am »
Saw a Japanese TV programme about Panasonic's development of their bread maker.

They found that stretching the dough during kneading was the key to a good loaf. That's why their breadmakers have two vertical ridges on the sides.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: The Bread Thread
« Reply #572 on: 02 January, 2021, 05:28:25 pm »
Saw a Japanese TV programme about Panasonic's development of their bread maker.

They found that stretching the dough during kneading was the key to a good loaf. That's why their breadmakers have two vertical ridges on the sides.

It's probably no coincidence that this is the bit where there's inevitably stuff that needs a bit of teflon-friendly Persuasion to clean off.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Wowbagger

  • Sylph
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: The Bread Thread
« Reply #573 on: 02 January, 2021, 10:20:26 pm »
I discovered an annoying design change in the Panasonic bread makers today.

I decided tot make a mostly-rye loaf today, and mixed all the ingredients, including water, in the bucket, only to realise that I hand't changed over from the wheat paddle to the rye paddle. Mildly irritating, thought I, but i have an older bucket from a previous, defunct, breadmaker so I thought I'd put the rye paddle in that and then tip all the ingredients into the old bucket, which looksidentical in shape to teh new bucket.

Except it isn't. Both are held into the breadmaker by bayonet fixings. The old bucket has four "hooks", the new bucket only two...
Bach without a doubt.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: The Bread Thread
« Reply #574 on: 10 January, 2021, 04:31:16 pm »
I fear my sourdough starter has died. Damn.

Not entirely sure how or why. I keep it in the fridge between uses. Took it out yesterday morning to feed prior to baking this weekend but it hasn’t shown any sign of activity.

I shall nail it to the perch for the time being, in case it is just resting. Not hopeful though.

Oh well, I can always make a new one, but it’s disappointing all the same.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."