Author Topic: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)  (Read 2186948 times)

hellymedic

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Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #23100 on: 11 June, 2021, 07:15:02 pm »
Partner has sensitive hearing, wakes easily and Must Not Be Disturbed when asleep, eating or in the bathroom.
His habits are more disabling than my MS...

ian

  • not a woman, not an american, not a vampire
Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #23101 on: 11 June, 2021, 07:55:03 pm »
Don't introduce him to my wife (who I suspect he indirectly knows).

I have slept through several seismic events. One of the big coronabonuses is that I never get up before 9 am. Actually, I had a 9 am meeting today which I arrived at 9.20 am (I have to shave, make coffee, provide life coaching for Bad Cat). No sense rushing into matters.
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hellymedic

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Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #23102 on: 11 June, 2021, 08:52:33 pm »
9am is foreign territory to him unless he's Away.

I like 9am! I'd prefer 5-6am but these are Happy Memories of my Audax past...

Mrs Pingu

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Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #23103 on: 18 June, 2021, 07:56:27 pm »
Well Pingu & I should have been drinking champagne tonight, because we were the highest bidder for a property that went to a closing date today.
Instead we are imbibing a bucket of cold worms because the 2nd place bidder 'claimed' they were a cash buyer and the seller decided to take that offer.
Despite the fact that 'cash buyer' means feck all in Scotland cos once you've made an offer and had it accepted it's basically binding and we don't generally get up to all the nonsense that happens in the English process.

Given that the first property we were going to bid on we didn't get to, through a similar sort of 'not playing by the normal rules', I'm feeling like I must have kicked puppies in a previous life.

<goes off to garden with fork.
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

ian

  • not a woman, not an american, not a vampire
Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #23104 on: 18 June, 2021, 08:02:24 pm »
Normal rules when it comes to buying houses, even north of the border, aren't normal and possibly aren't even rules, and involve exposure to toxic quantities of morons.

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ian

  • not a woman, not an american, not a vampire
Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #23105 on: 18 June, 2021, 08:21:51 pm »
In other news: football, please just fuck off.
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Beardy

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Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #23106 on: 18 June, 2021, 11:31:13 pm »
In other news: football, please just fuck off.
I agree with you wholeheartedly sir, and I must say I think your put the case very well.
Sorting my life out, one shed at a time.

robgul

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Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #23107 on: 19 June, 2021, 07:28:25 am »
Well Pingu & I should have been drinking champagne tonight, because we were the highest bidder for a property that went to a closing date today.
Instead we are imbibing a bucket of cold worms because the 2nd place bidder 'claimed' they were a cash buyer and the seller decided to take that offer.
Despite the fact that 'cash buyer' means feck all in Scotland cos once you've made an offer and had it accepted it's basically binding and we don't generally get up to all the nonsense that happens in the English process.

Given that the first property we were going to bid on we didn't get to, through a similar sort of 'not playing by the normal rules', I'm feeling like I must have kicked puppies in a previous life.

<goes off to garden with fork.

You don't appear to be alone - agents locally are reporting that people are attempting to "buy off other people" to stop them offering on a house.   Supply just seems to be in such short supply that prices are going mad, that's outside of the stamp duty holiday thing.

And reading about the property market in the US it's a similar picture - with massive over the asking offers and incentives being paid.

Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #23108 on: 22 June, 2021, 11:31:49 am »
Well Pingu & I should have been drinking champagne tonight, because we were the highest bidder for a property that went to a closing date today.
Instead we are imbibing a bucket of cold worms because the 2nd place bidder 'claimed' they were a cash buyer and the seller decided to take that offer.
Despite the fact that 'cash buyer' means feck all in Scotland cos once you've made an offer and had it accepted it's basically binding and we don't generally get up to all the nonsense that happens in the English process.

Given that the first property we were going to bid on we didn't get to, through a similar sort of 'not playing by the normal rules', I'm feeling like I must have kicked puppies in a previous life.

<goes off to garden with fork.

That is shocking.

I thought it was actually banned in Scotland.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

ian

  • not a woman, not an american, not a vampire
Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #23109 on: 22 June, 2021, 11:38:07 am »
No, the seller can effectively accept any of the offers, or none of them. The difference is that once it's accepted, it's accepted, unlike the English system, where anyone at any point before the eventual exchange of contracts, can turn up with a better offer or the buyers can simply change their minds.
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Mrs Pingu

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Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #23110 on: 22 June, 2021, 10:34:24 pm »
Yes, that. Although in theory you have until 'conclusion of the missives'.

At this point I'm so scunnered with what little is on offer (on the market) that is suitable that I'm almost seriously considering asking if the missives aren't concluded on our place can we just call the whole thing off.
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #23111 on: 22 June, 2021, 10:45:02 pm »
A colleague of mine has been gazumped 4 times recently.   


I'm also seeing houses near my parents, in what has always been "owner occupier" suburban territory turning up on the rental market.  The landlords are spreading their tentacles.   



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cygnet

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Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #23112 on: 22 June, 2021, 11:25:42 pm »
No, the seller can effectively accept any of the offers, or none of them. The difference is that once it's accepted, it's accepted, unlike the English system, where anyone at any point before the eventual exchange of contracts, can turn up with a better offer or the buyers can simply change their minds.

Is there an added complication, that in England, once contracts are exchanged the buyer become liable for the deposit (10%) if they pull out. But the seller loses nothing by accepting a higher different offer?
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robgul

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Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #23113 on: 23 June, 2021, 07:26:14 am »
No, the seller can effectively accept any of the offers, or none of them. The difference is that once it's accepted, it's accepted, unlike the English system, where anyone at any point before the eventual exchange of contracts, can turn up with a better offer or the buyers can simply change their minds.

Is there an added complication, that in England, once contracts are exchanged the buyer become liable for the deposit (10%) if they pull out. But the seller loses nothing by accepting a higher different offer?

No - if the buyer pulled out they would lose the deposit paid on exchange (if they paid one, more and more transactions are exchange/complete simultaneously, or the seller accepts a no deposit exchange) - but if the seller backs out then they would be in breach of contract and thus liable to be sued by the buyer.


PaulF

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Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #23114 on: 23 June, 2021, 07:45:05 am »
Would they also be liable for other losses in the chain? For example if A is selling their house to B who is selling their's to C etc. If A pulls out then B will have to pull out, through no fault of their own, which means that C could sue them?

Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #23115 on: 23 June, 2021, 08:05:46 am »
Given the rather long backlog in the courts it would be all but futile to sue in such circumstances.  Very few people do sue. 

Gazumping itself should be discouraged by statute and there should be a penalty against the seller of 20% of accepted offer price plus all costs.  That would effectively dissuade sellers unless the offer was far more than 20% higher of course.

PaulF

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Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #23116 on: 23 June, 2021, 08:25:51 am »
And presumably a similar penalty for buyers who pull out? But how about losses up and down the chain? Who should be liable for those? The party breaking the chain or the party forced to break the contract.

Out of interest how did you arrive at the 20%? Jus a suitably punitive amount or something more complex?

Beardy

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Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #23117 on: 23 June, 2021, 09:34:13 am »
I read over the weekend that the housing market is going bonkers in rural areas with demand far outstripping supply, but I’ve yet to see any activity from estate agents ‘leafleting’ saying that ‘buyers are looking for properties like yours’ as I’ve seen in the past.
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robgul

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Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #23118 on: 23 June, 2021, 09:41:25 am »
Speaking to my brother, a retired solicitor specialising in property, it seems that a seller backing out after exchange of contracts is a rarity, as is a buyer* doing so.

The real issue is the Gazumping problem - if there's no contract either way (other than a moral one, which isn't worth a light) then it's open season for both seller and buyer.  Unless the Scottish system is implemented in England I don't see that changing.   I can see Polar Bear's idea but the % amount is probably too high . . .  I could see, and would probably be willing to risk a "fee commitment" of some sort offset against purchase - even if as nominal as £1,500 - £2,000.

Of course, all this would go away if houses were sold through "dealers" (think secondhand cars) - where an organisation bought the house and kept it "in stock" for sale.   Over the past 40 years or so there have been a couple of initiatives that tried to set this us up but failed - obviously the funding requirements are massive and legal/title stuff has an effect.

They say that house moving and divorce are the most stressful things in life - I must be very stressed have had 11 of one and 1 of the other  (no, not just 1 house move  ;D )

* back in about 1982 I had an interesting situation which was created to satisfy both our buyer and our seller . . .   we negotiated an exchange of contracts both ways simultaneously but with a six-month completion period for our buyer and a four-month completion for our purchase (i.e. we would need "closed bridging" for 2 months - pre-arranged with the bank). 
All fine and dandy until about 3 months had passed and the couple buying from us separated!   We were, of course, insulated by the contract and all ended well with our first buyer re-selling with completion a day or two before the end of his six-month completion period.

Mr Larrington

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Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #23119 on: 23 June, 2021, 09:42:52 am »
“A verbal contract isn’t worth the paper it’s written on!” ~ Samuel Goldwyn
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robgul

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Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #23120 on: 23 June, 2021, 09:43:44 am »
I read over the weekend that the housing market is going bonkers in rural areas with demand far outstripping supply, but I’ve yet to see any activity from estate agents ‘leafleting’ saying that ‘buyers are looking for properties like yours’ as I’ve seen in the past.

We've been getting a couple of such leaflets or letters per week for about 18 months

robgul

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Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #23121 on: 23 June, 2021, 09:44:18 am »
“A verbal contract isn’t worth the paper it’s written on!” ~ Samuel Goldwyn

I was counting the seconds until someone quoted that  ;D

ian

  • not a woman, not an american, not a vampire
Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #23122 on: 23 June, 2021, 09:47:31 am »
Would they also be liable for other losses in the chain? For example if A is selling their house to B who is selling their's to C etc. If A pulls out then B will have to pull out, through no fault of their own, which means that C could sue them?

Not really, you generally can't sue someone for incidental losses. Otherwise if a driver somewhere caused a road accident that delayed your bus to an important meeting, which resulted in a substantial financial loss, you'd be able to sue that driver, and so on.

But as said it's a bit moot, individuals generally don't sue one another, there's little court time and it's ruinously expensive. When the lovely people we bought how first off decided to trash it before leaving, we assumed we could sue them, both sets of solicitors laughed sadly well you could... (in the end their solicitors gave us the money, I assume they wrote it off, or chased it up themselves, though I suspect they also wanted to cut their losses with those two).

These are systems that were built for transactions that could be completed quickly and had a total value of <£10k, now extrapolated to long drawn-out processes for transactions for hundreds of thousands – if not millions – of pounds.

We're vaguely looking, and indeed, in the more rural realms hereabouts there's not much about, a lot of people are decamping from London for homes out in the country. I can't complain that's what we'd be doing. We did wander by a lovely oast the other weekend. Let's buy that, we asserted. Then we looked at the price, which had sallied far north of one million British pounds.
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PaulF

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Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #23123 on: 23 June, 2021, 10:01:39 am »
Would they also be liable for other losses in the chain? For example if A is selling their house to B who is selling their's to C etc. If A pulls out then B will have to pull out, through no fault of their own, which means that C could sue them?

Not really, you generally can't sue someone for incidental losses. Otherwise if a driver somewhere caused a road accident that delayed your bus to an important meeting, which resulted in a substantial financial loss, you'd be able to sue that driver, and so on.


In which case it's probably fortunate that so few chains collapse post-exchange

Mr Larrington

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Re: The RANT thread (often contains fruity language)
« Reply #23124 on: 23 June, 2021, 10:55:08 am »
“A verbal contract isn’t worth the paper it’s written on!” ~ Samuel Goldwyn

I was counting the seconds until someone quoted that  ;D

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