DC rainmaker first look at Hammerhead Karoo GPS unit

[Oxford_Guy]

[I posted this elsewhere, within another thread, but thought this deserves it's own thread]

There's an interesting first look at the Hammerhead Karoo on the excellent DCRainmaker site:

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/05/hammerhead-karoo-gps-bike-computer.html

One great thing to note - it's compatible with Garmin mounts

It seems to imply maps are cached, rather than built into the unit - this is a worry, unless you can cache a large area AND specify that area precisely and ask it not to overwrite that cache until you want to

It has 3G connectivity, I hope that doesn't mean you need to have a (separate from your phone paid data plan to use it)

Screen sounds good

Performance (no lag) sounds excellent

I think it's likely to cost *much* more than DC Rainmaker suggests, but I'm still interested.

[Kim]

So they've made a smartphone that's sensible (shape, bracket, ruggedness, battery capacity) to mount on a bike.

Seems like a good idea.  If they allow the installation (even by sideloading) of arbitrary apps I can see it being popular as a platform for delivery riders.

[igauk]

The review says maps can be downloaded via WiFi so no need to rely on phone signal and caching.

[Oxford_Guy]

The review says maps can be downloaded via WiFi so no need to rely on phone signal and caching.

Hopefully will have enough storage (or better, accept microSD cards for storage) to download maps for at least 2 whole large European countries

[Oxford_Guy]

The review says maps can be downloaded via WiFi so no need to rely on phone signal and caching.

Hopefully will have enough storage (or better, accept microSD cards for storage) to download maps for at least 2 whole large European countries

I read the tech specs, it has 16Gb of internal storage (no microSD card slot by the sound of it), but they say that this is enough to store their entire worldwide map, a full suit of apps and lots of ride data, which sounds good: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mprufleychk5rtz/AAA8NK-USrw42wpwc_Ch98KYa/Karoo%20Features%20%26%20Specs?dl=0&preview=HammerheadKaroo_TechnicalSpecification_Spring2017.pdf

[igauk]

I've signed up to their mailing list so we'll see how it pans out. Certainly on paper it ticks the right boxes for me, but proof of the pudding and all that. When they say its been developed and tested by cylists I bet none of it involves four days continuous running, charging from a dynamo and the operator being cold, tired, wet, hungry and the screen covered in dried energy drink and snot...maybe I should volunteer as a beta tester!

[Oxford_Guy]

Interesting, for the next 5 days they're offering special pre-order pricing at $299, which is less than I thought it would be. Normal pre-order pricing will be $399, $499 final retail

I have a link for the special pre-order pricing, PM me if interested.

Am tempted to pre-order one...

[TigaSefi]

Jesus that's a tempting price

[Oxford_Guy]

Jesus that's a tempting price

Isn't it? Though need to factor in a likely +20% for VAT and £8 customs fee. Still pretty good for the spec, though, I think.

[Horizon]

Jesus that's a tempting price

Isn't it? Though need to factor in a likely +20% for VAT and £8 customs fee. Still pretty good for the spec, though, I think.

Plus import duty and then vat on the import duty, I make it about £295 plus the revenue collection fee, which will depend on who delivers it. I've asked them about shipping via Amazon UK but haven't had a reply. The problem with buying direct from the USA is the tedium of having to deal with a return.

[Oxford_Guy]

Jesus that's a tempting price

Isn't it? Though need to factor in a likely +20% for VAT and £8 customs fee. Still pretty good for the spec, though, I think.

Plus import duty and then vat on the import duty, I make it about £295 plus the revenue collection fee, which will depend on who delivers it. I've asked them about shipping via Amazon UK but haven't had a reply. The problem with buying direct from the USA is the tedium of having to deal with a return.

Still cheaper than the Garmin 1000 and looks loads better, though

[dim]

what does the Hammerhead offer that the Garmin Edge 1000 cannot do?

[TigaSefi]

A fully functional computer

[dim]

A fully functional computer

speculation at this stage .... not been properly tested and people don't even know what it's going to cost 

and saying that, I'm very pleased with my Edge 1000 .... I'm using version 12.20 software and it's working like a dream with no problems. You need to know how to set the unit up and what to enable/disable. Those who still have problems using v12.20 software have most probably not set it up properly

I have the heartstrap, cadence sensor, speed sensor, Garmin varia radar unit, and the remote control button

battery life seems ok (I have done a few 7hr rides), but if I need to charge the unit on longer rides, I have a powerbank. I doubt that the Hammerhead will offer as many features as the Edge 1000.

[Oxford_Guy]

A fully functional computer

speculation at this stage .... not been properly tested and people don't even know what it's going to cost 

and saying that, I'm very pleased with my Edge 1000 .... I'm using version 12.20 software and it's working like a dream with no problems. You need to know how to set the unit up and what to enable/disable. Those who still have problems using v12.20 software have most probably not set it up properly

I have the heartstrap, cadence sensor, speed sensor, Garmin varia radar unit, and the remote control button

battery life seems ok (I have done a few 7hr rides), but if I need to charge the unit on longer rides, I have a powerbank. I doubt that the Hammerhead will offer as many features as the Edge 1000.

They've stated the cost:

$299 for early adopters, $499 on full release

[dim]

A fully functional computer

speculation at this stage .... not been properly tested and people don't even know what it's going to cost 

and saying that, I'm very pleased with my Edge 1000 .... I'm using version 12.20 software and it's working like a dream with no problems. You need to know how to set the unit up and what to enable/disable. Those who still have problems using v12.20 software have most probably not set it up properly

I have the heartstrap, cadence sensor, speed sensor, Garmin varia radar unit, and the remote control button

battery life seems ok (I have done a few 7hr rides), but if I need to charge the unit on longer rides, I have a powerbank. I doubt that the Hammerhead will offer as many features as the Edge 1000.

They've stated the cost:

$299 for early adopters, $499 on full release

£250-£275 gets you a used Garmin Edge 1000 off ebay in good condition (if you are patient).... I bought my Garmin Edge 1000 with all accesories (excluding the radar unit and the remote control) for £275 off a member from this site

well worth the money.... a few bugs on the earlier versions of software but those have been sorted out now .... still a slight glitch (sometimes), and that is when you get to some intersections/turns, it still assumes that you are a few meters away, so you are not sure which way to turn. That is because I normally have Glosnass switched off, and the unit works on other satelites .... (I think it's the same ones that mobile phones use)

set it up properly (use this link http://www.forgot.co.uk/garmin-edge-navigation/garmin-edge-1000/

but also read all the comments,

and also check the garmin forum: https://forums.garmin.com/forumdisplay.php?464-Edge-1000

get the remote control, and you have no problems at all in the rain when it comes to switching screens (press a button, and it's instant)

Glossnass updates the unit every few seconds, but uses more battery power (that's what I read and assume is correct, so I have switched mine off)

on todays ride of 140km, I had a few instances where this occured, so I switched Glossnass back on, and problem solved


in a nutshell, if I lost my edge 1000, or if it had to break, I would buy another one without hesitation, even if I had to pay full price ....

linked to the radar unit, it makes cycling an absolute pleasure 

[JulesP]

I just got a pre-sale invitation through for a Karoo – $299 (will be $499). I'm sorely tempted after the usual Garmin troubles, but the 'guarantee' has put me off:

   "365 +1 day money back guarantee applies to units returned unopened and undamaged in their original packaging"

Never mind the length – look at the "unopened"... 

Is anyone else risking it?

[igauk]

Is anyone else risking it?

I was tempted at $299 (realistically £300 once VAT, duties etc. added in) but couldn't afford to take the risk on a largely untried (with real world users) device. It wouldn't arrived in time for LEL either so sticking with my basic bike computer and phone for following a track (still haven't decided between RWGPS and OSMand). This time next year I might take the plunge.

[psyclist]

I just got a pre-sale invitation through for a Karoo – $299 (will be $499). I'm sorely tempted after the usual Garmin troubles, but the 'guarantee' has put me off:

   "365 +1 day money back guarantee applies to units returned unopened and undamaged in their original packaging"

Never mind the length – look at the "unopened"... 

Is anyone else risking it?

The guarantee has changed, and is now as follows: "Hammerhead offers a 45-day satisfaction guarantee. You may return your Hammerhead product within 45 days of delivery if you are, for any reason, not satisfied with your purchase." You would be liable for postage costs to return the device.

There are some more product videos at https://hammerhead.us7.list-manage.com/track/click?u=4f879dd730bedad08494dc4c2&id=12ce0be2d5&e=e3efea49df. Hopefully routes can be transferred to the device using a cable and not just via the airways, as that looked painfully slow in the video.

The first units will be received by customers this month, given that shipping started in November. I'm interested in hearing how the Karoo behaves in the real world, and if the mapping tools are as cycling specific and user friendly as attempted to be portrayed in the videos.

[StuAff]

First units have arrived in owners' hands. https://www.johnsedlak.com/2017/12/preview-hammerhead-karoo/ and others seem very happy so far, reviews won't be too far away. I have a riding bud who was in the queue early enough to (hopefully) get his Karoo this year. I reckon Feb/March for mine, I ordered late September. I've been very impressed with the honesty and detail regarding design and production the Hammerhead team have shown so far. They lost a few pre-order customers who got fed up with the delays & went back to Garmin, but I wasn't put off, I saw that in more positive terms. If they chose to make improvements and fixes in preproduction that caused delays, better that than just doing it for v2 if at all. Given the problems many Garmin owners have with brand-new devices, let alone ones like my Edge 705 that should have had software issues fixed and didn't, this is rather refreshing.

[TigaSefi]

https://blog.hammerhead.io/truth-in-2017-e9be6a8ea977

Wow that is some lying!

[psyclist]

Rather amateurish. Quite why they chose not to be truthful from the start defeats me. I can't see how trying to get those initial 100 customers to be untruthful was ever going to work in their favour.

So they've been found out and now make a public statement. They have certainly gone down in my eyes.

When their product is properly out and available, this may all wash over.

[jiberjaber]

I'm treating it as a 'Kick starter without kick starter'  The s/w is bound to be limited and potentially buggy when it eventually arrives - but to be fair, I've paid a lot in the past for similar Garmin experience (which they then fix and then break again on a regular schedule!)

I think Wahoo was similar launch wrt functionality and bugs which they then ironed out over a period of time with user feedback.

I haven't seen the DCR video yet but did read the Hammerhead release this morning.  Seems like they took a very ill advised approach - at best they should have got some sort of NDA in place if they were going to expect to be able to manage the story for the first 100 users / guinea pigs /previewers .

I'm sure it will arrive when it arrives 
 

[Horizon]

It's an astonishing level of deceit. I've been following this since they were 'launched' and held back on buying one until I was sure they were shipping. Once they claimed they were, at the end of last month, I placed an order. However, it quickly became obvious that something wasn't right - no reviews, nothing on youtube, and then very muted comments from a couple of 'owners' - almost as though everyone had had to sign an NDA (which effectively the 100 beta testers, not buyers, had). Three weeks and still nothing and it was pretty obvious they were lying and I asked for a refund, which to be fair I got in three days. A couple of days later, they were called out by DCRainmaker as liars, to which they've had to own up to. Nothing has shipped to the open market, and the product itself is obviously well off being ready. If and when it ever ships, it can be the best thing ever, but I won't be buying one.

[psyclist]

I'm in no rush, and I'm not in the first wave of customers. My strategy was always to wait until reviews start coming out, and then cancel if any issues appear to be unresolvable in the medium term, or are caused by the hardware.

They are obviously feeling a lot of pressure, and have made a huge mistake. What disappoints me is that they only lay everything in the open once they have been caught out. Otherwise there would have been no public apology and their misdemeanours would have been kept secret. So it just becomes a PR exercise to try to keep folk on board.

For me, their saving grace is the fact that this market is so poorly served currently.