Author Topic: And the "We don't give a shit" award ...  (Read 784 times)

And the "We don't give a shit" award ...
« on: 24 July, 2024, 06:23:37 pm »
...  for disability discrimination goes to ...

CLC!

You really cannot make this sort of ignorance up.  Imagine being an organiser of this event and not even considering that this woman deserves to be able to collect her apparently prestigious award from the stage just like anybody else?

Talk about own goals.   This is how bigoted and ignorant our society is.  This is what disabled people face every second of every minute of every hour of every day.  Unacceptable.

Kim

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Re: And the "We don't give a shit" award ...
« Reply #1 on: 24 July, 2024, 06:27:06 pm »
You really cannot make this sort of ignorance up.

Of course you could.  It happens with such tedious regularity that discriminating against someone in the process of using them to show how inclusive your organisation is is a classic trope.

Basil

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Re: And the "We don't give a shit" award ...
« Reply #2 on: 24 July, 2024, 06:32:02 pm »
CLC?
Admission.  I'm actually not that fussed about cake.

Tim Hall

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Re: And the "We don't give a shit" award ...
« Reply #3 on: 24 July, 2024, 06:53:09 pm »
CLC?
City of London Corporation. PB's OP has linkified the CLC bit.
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robgul

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Re: And the "We don't give a shit" award ...
« Reply #4 on: 24 July, 2024, 07:19:25 pm »
Didn't the Beeb get caught out when Tanii GreyThompson  got a gong on SPOTY and she couldn't get her wheelchair onto the stage?

barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
Re: And the "We don't give a shit" award ...
« Reply #5 on: 24 July, 2024, 07:41:07 pm »
City of London Corporation (CLC).

Not even slightly surprised... Wheelchair using friends identify this sort of shit as a daily occurrence. Lots of wheelchair using students also don't get to graduate off the stage like everyone else unless they consent to awkward bodges like sitting on the stage the entire time or similar.

The caption on the 2nd image says that a staffmember told Anna (the woman who was denied access to the stage) that they had a ramp but staffmember didn't think Anna would want to use it... I place significant bets that that purported ramp does not exist or is unsafe/unsuitable.

People when faced with THEIR own culpability for discrim will be SO awks about it, they'll just start bullshitting their faces off to 'save face' which often digs their hole deeper.

I know Anna a little from online, she's a VERY well known USA disability activist who lives in the UK now.

This sort of trope is so common the tiny-charity I founded drafted up a discrimination bingo.

And even if you have stage access, often it is unreliable (platform lifts which are notoriously shit) as outlined by my co-founder of Reasonable Access and friend Esther Loukin who did the Quaker Swarthmore lecture and spent the first ten-minutes discussing why she's not on stage due to risk of platform lifts and as a powerchair user she's completely stranded and into fire service rescue levels of risk.

barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
Re: And the "We don't give a shit" award ...
« Reply #6 on: 24 July, 2024, 07:44:30 pm »
Didn't the Beeb get caught out when Tanii GreyThompson  got a gong on SPOTY and she couldn't get her wheelchair onto the stage?

Yep, 24 years ago, the BBC gave Tanni an award which she couldn't get on stage for

If that isn't indication that disability rights law in the UK doesn't work, I don't know what does.

In 2007 a wheelchair user Craig Potter sued his university who refused to provide wheelchair access to the stage for his graduation. I've just started talking to Craig on Twitter as several current graduands are having The Same Disablist No-Access Bullshit around graduations in 2024.

Litigation is slow, difficult and financially risky. Often some kind of media attention like Anna is doing can be more effective if lucky and done well.

Re: And the "We don't give a shit" award ...
« Reply #7 on: 24 July, 2024, 07:54:28 pm »
Many of us have Labour MP's now.  How about a coordinated effort by finding failures locally and then raising the issue with our MP.  The sheer volume of complaints will begin to ripple through the ranks.

I have good access to my MP.  We are on first name terms and I have already secured him to attend an event for our local Friends of the Earth group. 

Jaded

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Re: And the "We don't give a shit" award ...
« Reply #8 on: 24 July, 2024, 08:08:40 pm »
Didn't the Beeb get caught out when Tanii GreyThompson  got a gong on SPOTY and she couldn't get her wheelchair onto the stage?

Yep, 24 years ago, the BBC gave Tanni an award which she couldn't get on stage for


I had thought that was a watershed for disability rights and access.

I was fascinated at the near-missteps at an awards ceremony I was at earlier this year...
It is simpler than it looks.

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hellymedic

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Re: And the "We don't give a shit" award ...
« Reply #10 on: 24 July, 2024, 09:12:33 pm »
I followed Anna’s plight on Twitter/X earlier in the week but don’t seem to be able to access X at all today.

Disability Twitter is FULL of accessfail anecdotes, as teh Kim & barakta will attest.

BBC’s Frank Gardner, Tanni Grey-Thompson and many ALL have horror stories!

barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
Re: And the "We don't give a shit" award ...
« Reply #11 on: 24 July, 2024, 09:15:42 pm »
Many of us have Labour MP's now.  How about a coordinated effort by finding failures locally and then raising the issue with our MP.  The sheer volume of complaints will begin to ripple through the ranks.

I have good access to my MP.  We are on first name terms and I have already secured him to attend an event for our local Friends of the Earth group.

The issue would be 'where do you start'.

It's not just wheelchair access although that would be a start.
It's housing (campaign by Inclusion London for 29th July)
It's accessible transport, ongoing campaigns, even getting ramp to train or bus is unreliable.
It's disability benefits and hideous assessments.
It's constant discrim and barriers in employment.
It's the entire SEND (special educational needs and disability) stuff with children and getting appropriate and funded support in schools.
It's access to healthcare in a timely and suitable manner.
It's wheelchair services which are restrictive and shit.
It's tenants rights.
It's cost of living.
It's access to remote employment without bullshit 'back to office' enforcement badness.

Etc.

A lot of the wider headline stuff is also disability discrim.

What Anna says about an ombudsman to pursue claims is a good idea IF and ONLY if it is funded, resourced and listened to properly and has to take every take in a timely manner and a sensible outcome e.g. logging discrim and repeat instances scale up punishment. We also need centralised monitoring of orgs around general common disability stuff and the so called anticipatory duty to make reasonable adjustments.

I already wrote to my new Labour MP to say I was concerned that Labour rhetoric on disabled people was overly benefits focused and not focused enough on societal and environmental issues like housing, transport, employment, education, services.

barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
Re: And the "We don't give a shit" award ...
« Reply #12 on: 24 July, 2024, 09:18:48 pm »
I don’t have a telly , so haven’t watched this programme.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/article/2024/jul/22/sophie-morgans-fight-to-fly-review-the-degradation-of-disabled-people-is-jaw-dropping

Flights are like boats - almost no regulation at all, as most equalities legislation simply doesn't apply.

Trains and buses can be a pain but less bad (low bar) than planes/boats cos there are at least some other regulations like the Public Service Vehicle Accessibility Regulations (PSVAR)...

But where we HAVE regulation it's poorly enforced cos down to individuals which limits it to a few people like Doug Paulley who is a personal close friend of mine and an absolute fucking legend (while also just being an ordinary guy, who hurts when he's discriminated against and insulted by disablists and has no spoons like the rest of us).


Re: And the "We don't give a shit" award ...
« Reply #13 on: 25 July, 2024, 09:14:50 am »
Didn't the Beeb get caught out when Tanii GreyThompson  got a gong on SPOTY and she couldn't get her wheelchair onto the stage?

Yep, 24 years ago, the BBC gave Tanni an award which she couldn't get on stage for

If that isn't indication that disability rights law in the UK doesn't work, I don't know what does.

In 2007 a wheelchair user Craig Potter sued his university who refused to provide wheelchair access to the stage for his graduation. I've just started talking to Craig on Twitter as several current graduands are having The Same Disablist No-Access Bullshit around graduations in 2024.

Litigation is slow, difficult and financially risky. Often some kind of media attention like Anna is doing can be more effective if lucky and done well.

I've read her book.

British Athletics employed her as disability/para sports coordinator. Put her in an office on the first floor. With no lift.

Every day she had to haul herself up the stairs on her arse, leaving her wheelchair on the ground floor.

Gobsmackingly shite.
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barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
Re: And the "We don't give a shit" award ...
« Reply #14 on: 25 July, 2024, 02:01:47 pm »
Tanni used to be criticised by other disabled people cos she would 'tolerate' that sort of first-floor-no-lift nonsense cos she was physically able to do it back then. In recent years she's clued up that while 20yrs ago she was a super fit paraplegic-type not all wheelchair users have that option and that with her profile she could fight back better.

I think a lot comes down to disabled people being SO used to shit, that a lot of us are scared to complain too much or we might get the nice thing (job, figurehead for disableds, attention, publicity) taken away. Tanni is a lot less star-struck by her fame these days, she is much much more astute that she gets less discrim than average (the average rate is monstrously high, Tanni's is merely medium-high) cos of her fame, but will then use her fame carefully (careful to avoid bullying frontline scapegoated people) to try and effect change. The problem is this is SO wide spread that it's a very difficult thing to change.

Someone in the House of Lords tried to bring in a law specifically saying 1 step of 10 inches or 2 steps of 10 inches each should 100% be ramped or replaced as a low-hanging-fruit to try and fix shop entryways and similar, try to shift the culture. Tories bounced it saying "We have the Equality Act".

For those of you not wheelchair users (or carers thereof) try looking at shops, pubs, things on the highstreet. How many have a single step, or something that for a few tens or hundreds of quid could be temporarily or permanently ramped? Often new tenants taking over a shop will remove level access and ADD a step which is unlawful but very difficult to litigate cos the law is tricksy in those areas.

For those of you interested in a read (same woman as the Swarthmore video above) my friend Esther "sued a whole street" in Cambridge. In practice it took years, one business owner physically assaulting her, the local trade association briefing the council and local media against her, local media publishing where she lived, police not understanding Equality Act correspondence and trying to do her for blackmail, abusive behaviour from respondents and their lawyer (we think the lawyer approached the shops thinking he'd have an easy win for clients, then discovered the shop owners were horrible clients and unreliable witnesses who wouldn't do paperwork or be honest). The lawyer claimed that Esther could jump 10cm in her powerchair and that one of his clients had seen this which took a whole hour or more in court of Esther explaining that's physically impossible and the step they claimed was 10cm was actually 10inches in their OWN photo. At that point the patient judge lost his shit at the other side but still had to go through the tedious abusive process.

The law isn't enough, we need culture change. Kind of like how indoor public smoking and drink driving became largely unacceptable we need to make this kind of access failing unacceptable.


Cudzoziemiec

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Re: And the "We don't give a shit" award ...
« Reply #15 on: 25 July, 2024, 02:26:48 pm »
A lot of the wider headline stuff is also disability discrim.
I'm looking at your list and thinking a lot of it, probably most of it, applies to almost everyone to some extent.

Quote
I already wrote to my new Labour MP to say I was concerned that Labour rhetoric on disabled people was overly benefits focused and not focused enough on societal and environmental issues like housing, transport, employment, education, services.
Again, like so many other minority groups of people (immigrants and asylum seekers eg), presented only in terms of cost and potential problems and seen as special demands. Or even some not so minority groups; a lot of what is presented as problems of sexism would really make life better for everyone if cleared up. Etc, and so on. But we'd rather have a "hostile environment" and can't see it's we're also victims of our own hostility.
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barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
Re: And the "We don't give a shit" award ...
« Reply #16 on: 25 July, 2024, 02:49:54 pm »
100% presented only as costs. The Nazis framed disabled people as "useless eaters".  Culture warriors do the same. Whenever a disabled person flags up discrim like Anna did, there will be trolls replying in force to say "stop complaining" "you should be grateful" "why should we spend extra for your special needs" "why can't you lot just shut up and stop being expensive". One troll said to Anna that she was bringing nasty American litigiousness to the UK cos she was considering litigation (and she's American). I may have replied to that troll to say we could learn a lot from American disability litigation kthxfuck off etc.

It also perpetuates the idea of certain types of economic activity as the only value. Everyone is economically active, we all buy stuff, or have stuff like food etc bought for us... Carers may not earn money but they save the state billions a year while being treated like shite.

We also are bad at recognising most of us will become disabled at some point, especially in older age and that a more accessible society to disabled people will be more accessible to older people whether that's poorer vision or better infrastructure so people using mobility aids can still get out and about as much on their own as possible.

People don't want to think they could become disabled at any moment or age into disability, we're too busy perpetuating fear rather than inclusion.

Also disabled employees are likely to stay longer, have less sick leave and be more loyal cos we know we can't easily get another job elsewhere. We're also very good problemsolvers in many cases.

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: And the "We don't give a shit" award ...
« Reply #17 on: 25 July, 2024, 03:51:02 pm »
Also disabled employees are likely to stay longer, have less sick leave and be more loyal cos we know we can't easily get another job elsewhere. We're also very good problemsolvers in many cases.
I feel you're falling into economic justification here!
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: And the "We don't give a shit" award ...
« Reply #18 on: 25 July, 2024, 08:43:56 pm »
And even if you have stage access, often it is unreliable (platform lifts which are notoriously shit) as outlined by my co-founder of Reasonable Access and friend Esther Loukin who did the Quaker Swarthmore lecture and spent the first ten-minutes discussing why she's not on stage due to risk of platform lifts and as a powerchair user she's completely stranded and into fire service rescue levels of risk.
I've never watched one of those before. It turned out to be more interesting than I had begun to think it would be! Thanks for the link.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

barakta

  • Bastard lovechild of Yomiko Readman and Johnny 5
Re: And the "We don't give a shit" award ...
« Reply #19 on: 25 July, 2024, 09:53:58 pm »
Also disabled employees are likely to stay longer, have less sick leave and be more loyal cos we know we can't easily get another job elsewhere. We're also very good problemsolvers in many cases.
I feel you're falling into economic justification here!

Sadly you have to, to make businesses listen. I'm not always as clever at wording it as I ought to be.

Re: And the "We don't give a shit" award ...
« Reply #20 on: Yesterday at 07:39:41 pm »
I love the idea that a wheelchair can jump. 
Counterpoint: physics.

We love reading about how much disabled kids cost to school; why have a school for my daughter's needs when it costs 10bloominK???
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