Author Topic: Furrybootoon?  (Read 1371 times)

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Furrybootoon?
« Reply #25 on: 22 February, 2024, 01:27:43 pm »
Yeah, to be clear, I meant 'Furrybootoon' not 'far aboot' which is defo a Doric phrase.
So if Doric is Northeast Scots, and Aberdeen is definitely NE Scotland, does that mean Aberdonian is a dialect within a dialect?

The origin of the term Doric given in Wikipedia is interesting:
Quote
The term "Doric" was formerly used to refer to all dialects of Lowland Scots, but during the twentieth century it became increasingly associated with Mid Northern Scots.[4]

The name possibly originated as a jocular reference to the Doric dialect of the Ancient Greek language. Greek Dorians lived in Laconia, including Sparta, and other more rural areas, and were alleged by the ancient Greeks to have spoken laconically and in a language thought harsher in tone and more phonetically conservative than the Attic spoken in Athens. Doric Greek was used for some of the verses spoken by the chorus in Greek tragedy.

According to The Oxford Companion to English Literature:

"Since the Dorians were regarded as uncivilised by the Athenians, 'Doric' came to mean 'rustic' in English, and was applied particularly to the language of Northumbria and the Lowlands of Scotland and also to the simplest of the three orders in architecture."[5]
18th-century Scots writers such as Allan Ramsay justified their use of Scots (instead of English) by comparing it to the use of Ancient Greek Doric by Theocritus.[6] English became associated with Attic.[7]

'Scots' isn't a dialect, it is a language.
At least since 1999 (cf Weinreich) !

I understood that Wikipedia page to say that Doric is a dialect of Scots, and Pingu earlier pointed out Aberdeen as having its own dialect within Doric.

Wrong way round.

Scots is a dialect of Doric.
Interesting. What are the other dialects?
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Furrybootoon?
« Reply #26 on: 22 February, 2024, 01:29:37 pm »
The in laws are from farming just outside Aiberdeen. I got smacked for suggesting that the rural Aberdeen accent sounds like a turkey being sick. I have since held my piece.

Having said that, they were occasionally happy to recite the phrase, used when you don't know which shoe should be worn on which foot, "fit fit fits fit fit?"

Unfortuantely that only works in text due to Scots orthography dying out in favour of "ach alddie jsut write whit ye think it soonds like in english"

"Quhat fit fits quhat fit?"

It covers the fact that in Scots there is a transition of pronunciation from Wit to Fit via Whit as you head north
Something similar happens in Maori. Not much else similar between the two though!
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Furrybootoon?
« Reply #27 on: 22 February, 2024, 03:19:01 pm »
Yeah, to be clear, I meant 'Furrybootoon' not 'far aboot' which is defo a Doric phrase.
So if Doric is Northeast Scots, and Aberdeen is definitely NE Scotland, does that mean Aberdonian is a dialect within a dialect?

The origin of the term Doric given in Wikipedia is interesting:
Quote
The term "Doric" was formerly used to refer to all dialects of Lowland Scots, but during the twentieth century it became increasingly associated with Mid Northern Scots.[4]

The name possibly originated as a jocular reference to the Doric dialect of the Ancient Greek language. Greek Dorians lived in Laconia, including Sparta, and other more rural areas, and were alleged by the ancient Greeks to have spoken laconically and in a language thought harsher in tone and more phonetically conservative than the Attic spoken in Athens. Doric Greek was used for some of the verses spoken by the chorus in Greek tragedy.

According to The Oxford Companion to English Literature:

"Since the Dorians were regarded as uncivilised by the Athenians, 'Doric' came to mean 'rustic' in English, and was applied particularly to the language of Northumbria and the Lowlands of Scotland and also to the simplest of the three orders in architecture."[5]
18th-century Scots writers such as Allan Ramsay justified their use of Scots (instead of English) by comparing it to the use of Ancient Greek Doric by Theocritus.[6] English became associated with Attic.[7]

'Scots' isn't a dialect, it is a language.
At least since 1999 (cf Weinreich) !

I understood that Wikipedia page to say that Doric is a dialect of Scots, and Pingu earlier pointed out Aberdeen as having its own dialect within Doric.

Wrong way round.

Scots is a dialect of Doric.
Interesting. What are the other dialects?
Opps, it is me that is upsy downsy

I thought Doric was a classification of european languages.

Nope, that is Scots (which extends from northern ireland to all parts of scotland).
<i>Marmite slave</i>

ravenbait

  • Someone's imaginary friend
  • Pudge controls the weather.
    • Someone's imaginary friend
Re: Furrybootoon?
« Reply #28 on: 22 February, 2024, 04:10:03 pm »
Scots and English are both Germanic languages with a recent common ancestor. Doric is a dialect of Scots, as is Lallan, and Shetlandic, and a bunch of others from your Ulster Scots to really niche dialects like East Neuk.

Gàidhlig is the Celtic language currently spoken in Scotland, although at one point the people who live in what is currently called Scotland spoke a form of Cumbric or Old Welsh. They remained the longest in the area that coincides with Doric, and I've sometimes wondered if there is any relation.

Sam

https://ravenbait.com
"Created something? Hah! But that would be irresponsible! And unethical! I would never, ever make... more than one."

Re: Furrybootoon?
« Reply #29 on: 22 February, 2024, 05:24:27 pm »
I don't think anyone speaks any dialect of Scots up here.
Gàidhlig is common, and children use it in school.

There is a generation of people, roughly my age, who can't read or write Gàidhlig, but speak it as their first language. They are the product of the time when Gàidhlig wasn't taught in schools.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Furrybootoon?
« Reply #30 on: 22 February, 2024, 07:38:49 pm »
One of my more practical engineering lecturers had spent time in the far North, and recounted a tale of a young student "and that fits that?"

"Yes it does"

not noticing the inflection, "that, fits that?" led to an apparently circular conversation until another student interjected
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Bluebottle

  • Everybody's gotta be somewhere
Re: Furrybootoon?
« Reply #31 on: 22 February, 2024, 08:25:49 pm »
The in laws are from farming just outside Aiberdeen. I got smacked for suggesting that the rural Aberdeen accent sounds like a turkey being sick. I have since held my piece.

Having said that, they were occasionally happy to recite the phrase, used when you don't know which shoe should be worn on which foot, "fit fit fits fit fit?"

Unfortuantely that only works in text due to Scots orthography dying out in favour of "ach alddie jsut write whit ye think it soonds like in english"

"Quhat fit fits quhat fit?"

It covers the fact that in Scots there is a transition of pronunciation from Wit to Fit via Whit as you head north

Which reminds be of the W.N. Herbert poem, Can't Spell, Won't Spell
Dieu, je vous soupçonne d'être un intellectuel de gauche.

FGG #5465

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: Furrybootoon?
« Reply #32 on: 23 February, 2024, 02:05:45 pm »
I have to say I find the Aberdeen accent makes my boxers hit the floor...

Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

ravenbait

  • Someone's imaginary friend
  • Pudge controls the weather.
    • Someone's imaginary friend
Re: Furrybootoon?
« Reply #33 on: 23 February, 2024, 04:39:18 pm »
I have to say I find the Aberdeen accent makes my boxers hit the floor...

I am not sure what sort of response is warranted by this statement. Except, perhaps, "How?"

Sam
https://ravenbait.com
"Created something? Hah! But that would be irresponsible! And unethical! I would never, ever make... more than one."

ian

  • renegade sex clown
Re: Furrybootoon?
« Reply #34 on: 23 February, 2024, 09:19:29 pm »
Rapid onset anorexia caused by the thought of the local cuisine, I imagine.


Before you start, I have had nice meals in Aberdeen, but I've also lived in Scotland and eaten bridies.
Authoritarian Thought Leader, the Pol Pot of Powerpoint, the Stalin of Spreadsheets, the Putin of pandas