Author Topic: TCR no8.  (Read 28621 times)

S2L

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #100 on: 28 November, 2019, 07:39:26 am »

Quote
Thing is, if you are cash poor, but time rich, you can do the race really cheaply.
Yebbut then you're not racing, and shouldn't really enter.
So are you saying that any compromise on spending means you're not really racing?



Pretty much... a race is a race and one should aim at beating as many opponents as possible withing physical limitations. Sleeping in a ditch makes sense if it saves time, just like cooking. If it wastes time, then it's glorified touring

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #101 on: 28 November, 2019, 09:26:42 am »
it's glorified touring

That's certainly true of Audax. When I filmed some of the LEJOG record last year I covered some of the aspects which elevated the feat above 'touring'. Anyone can ride LEJOG, and there have been 'unsupported' record attempts. The glory-making aspects of the RRA LEJOG record are readily apparent, largely the validation by almost continuous observation. That makes it credible, but expensive. The history contributes to the status, and provides a rich background for stories. It was a story before the internet, and continues to be a fixture of 'legacy' publications.
TCR is an inevitable development. A core of 'stars' to provide enough mass of interest for the other participants' social media to orbit around. The MSM like women to focus on, so Fiona's success has generated a need to control the entry process. It's interesting to see how that process went wrong at PBP, with a big question mark over the validity of the ride of the first woman back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8TCfnE8Zv0

S2L

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #102 on: 28 November, 2019, 09:42:33 am »
it's glorified touring

That's certainly true of Audax. When I filmed some of the LEJOG record last year I covered some of the aspects which elevated the feat above 'touring'. Anyone can ride LEJOG, and there have been 'unsupported' record attempts. The glory-making aspects of the RRA LEJOG record are readily apparent, largely the validation by almost continuous observation. That makes it credible, but expensive. The history contributes to the status, and provides a rich background for stories. It was a story before the internet, and continues to be a fixture of 'legacy' publications.
TCR is an inevitable development. A core of 'stars' to provide enough mass of interest for the other participants' social media to orbit around. The MSM like women to focus on, so Fiona's success has generated a need to control the entry process. It's interesting to see how that process went wrong at PBP, with a big question mark over the validity of the ride of the first woman back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8TCfnE8Zv0

I don't think LeJoG record is a relevant example, because it is a race against the clock.. "contre la montre"... it's a time trial!

TCR is not a time trial, it is a race against opponents. I appreciate people aim at doing it in less than 14 days or whatever, but ultimately in a race, being 17th or 21th does make a difference, whereas finishing in 13 days or 14 doesn't.

Nobody looks at how long it took the winner do finish the Tour de France, but we all look at the final classification... TCR is no different. It's not a time trial, it's a race... very different thing.
If folks don't get that point, then they don't get the spirit of the event.

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #103 on: 28 November, 2019, 09:51:27 am »


I don't think LeJoG record is a relevant example, because it is a race against the clock.. "contre la montre"... it's a time trial!

TCR is not a time trial, it is a race against opponents. I appreciate people aim at doing it in less than 14 days or whatever, but ultimately in a race, being 17th or 21th does make a difference, whereas finishing in 13 days or 14 doesn't.

Nobody looks at how long it took the winner do finish the Tour de France, but we all look at the final classification... TCR is no different. It's not a time trial, it's a race... very different thing.
If folks don't get that point, then they don't get the spirit of the event.

Any event which forbids 'drafting' is a time trial. I'm more interested in the systems of glorification.

S2L

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #104 on: 28 November, 2019, 10:23:42 am »


Any event which forbids 'drafting' is a time trial. I'm more interested in the systems of glorification.

But it's not about the time, just like nobody should care about the time of the winner in a time trial... the win matters. Time is a reflection of course and weather conditions, per se it is a meaningless number.

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #105 on: 28 November, 2019, 10:29:44 am »
Sorry, but TCR is a time trial!

Time trials are non-drafting races against opponents doing the same course which, for TCR as RRA LEJoG, is defined by a few points rather than a set course.

People who are interested in it and know a bit about it often ask 'how long did it take you?'

The difference between TCR and RRA record attempts is support.

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #106 on: 28 November, 2019, 10:40:23 am »
Long distance race site Ridefar.info has published an article giving an overview of the new race.

https://ridefar.info/races/transcontinental-race/tcr-no8/

It'll probably be kept up to date with new info.

Quote
The finish party has been announced as Saturday evening, August 8th, which is the end of Day 15. It will therefore probably be an even bigger challenge for people to arrive before the finish party this year than it was in previous years.

I think this is a good way to give a 'soft steer' to make it clear that this is a race.
YACF touring/audax bargain basement:
https://bit.ly/2Xg8pRD



Ban cars.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #107 on: 28 November, 2019, 10:42:00 am »


Any event which forbids 'drafting' is a time trial. I'm more interested in the systems of glorification.

But it's not about the time, just like nobody should care about the time of the winner in a time trial... the win matters. Time is a reflection of course and weather conditions, per se it is a meaningless number.

It doesn't actually matter how much a record is beaten by, only that it is beaten. Whether the record to be beaten was set a minute earlier, a year earlier or a decade earlier isn't particularly important either.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #108 on: 28 November, 2019, 10:47:09 am »
Long distance race site Ridefar.info has published an article giving an overview of the new race.

https://ridefar.info/races/transcontinental-race/tcr-no8/

It'll probably be kept up to date with new info.

Quote
The finish party has been announced as Saturday evening, August 8th, which is the end of Day 15. It will therefore probably be an even bigger challenge for people to arrive before the finish party this year than it was in previous years.

I think this is a good way to give a 'soft steer' to make it clear that this is a race.

Chris White, the author, is planning to ride again in 2020.  He ran a control last time so he should be guaranteed a place. 

I agree with his comments on length.  I did a rough sketch, and it is certainly long, and it looks like it will have significantly more climbing than this year's event. 

S2L

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #109 on: 28 November, 2019, 10:54:43 am »
So you are saying it's about finishing fast rather than finishing first?

Then it's not a race... a race by definition implies beating the opposition, regardless of the time. Time is completely irrelevant, especially when the course changes every year.

Drafting or non drafting are simply rules of the race, but a race nonetheless

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #110 on: 28 November, 2019, 11:09:22 am »
So you are saying it's about finishing fast rather than finishing first?

Then it's not a race... a race by definition implies beating the opposition, regardless of the time. Time is completely irrelevant, especially when the course changes every year.

Drafting or non drafting are simply rules of the race, but a race nonetheless

it's a race in time trial format. if you ride fast you will finish accordingly (in the best position that reflects your fitness and faff and sleep optimisation) somewhere on (or out of) the gc list. if you time trial better (i.e. faster, longer, or both) than the rest of the field and long enough and use your time efficiently you'll be the first to finish automatically. race is a description that everyone understands, time trial usually requires further explanation and sounds less intriguing/appealing.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #111 on: 28 November, 2019, 11:18:55 am »
Long distance race site Ridefar.info has published an article giving an overview of the new race.

https://ridefar.info/races/transcontinental-race/tcr-no8/

It'll probably be kept up to date with new info.

Quote
The finish party has been announced as Saturday evening, August 8th, which is the end of Day 15. It will therefore probably be an even bigger challenge for people to arrive before the finish party this year than it was in previous years.

I think this is a good way to give a 'soft steer' to make it clear that this is a race.

Longer, and with more climbing than no7, and yet with slightly less time before the cut off. Looking at the numbers the climbing is heavily loaded into the CP2 -> CP4 leg nearly 17000m of climbing in about 1300km (excluding the parcour). Around CP3, there's very little alternative routes available it's a sort of one road in one road out type of thing.

I'm trying to work out if I can get CP1 -> CP2 to under 10000m of climbing without making it longer than the current 1280km. I know climbing is my weakness, so for me a little extra distance to avoid climbing is worth it for me.

The 1600m from the valley floor up to the start of the Cp4 parcour is quite a chunk of climbing, but the first 200km after CP3 looks scary in terms of climb.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #112 on: 28 November, 2019, 12:06:30 pm »
There are plenty of stories from TCR of riders checking their competitors' trackers and adjusting their sleep stop lengths (etc) accordingly. You can't do that on a time trial.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #113 on: 28 November, 2019, 12:16:15 pm »
It is an advantage to start a time trial behind your competitor, so that you have a ‘rabbit’ to chase. It is commonplace to monitor your performance relative to your main competitors during a time trial.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

rob

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #114 on: 28 November, 2019, 12:25:13 pm »
It is an advantage to start a time trial behind your competitor, so that you have a ‘rabbit’ to chase. It is commonplace to monitor your performance relative to your main competitors during a time trial.

My supporters had a copy of my schedule along with keeping an eye on where some other key riders were.

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #115 on: 28 November, 2019, 12:28:48 pm »
It seems to be a time trial for the front runners, an Audax for those wishing to finish before the party, and glorified touring for those who want to finish after the party.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #116 on: 28 November, 2019, 12:56:42 pm »
<...>
I know climbing is my weakness, so for me a little extra distance to avoid climbing is worth it for me.

The 1600m from the valley floor up to the start of the Cp4 parcour is quite a chunk of climbing, but the first 200km after CP3 looks scary in terms of climb.

J

good news is that there is plenty of time to make climbing your strength. bad news is that nothing worthwhile comes easy.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #117 on: 28 November, 2019, 12:59:33 pm »

good news is that there is plenty of time to make climbing your strength. bad news is that nothing worthwhile comes easy.

I'm hoping the new job will help. If you have any tips of how to train for climbing when you live in a flat country, please let me know.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

bludger

  • Randonneur and bargain hunter
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #118 on: 28 November, 2019, 01:07:58 pm »
You could give one of these a crack!

YACF touring/audax bargain basement:
https://bit.ly/2Xg8pRD



Ban cars.

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #119 on: 28 November, 2019, 01:13:53 pm »

good news is that there is plenty of time to make climbing your strength. bad news is that nothing worthwhile comes easy.

I'm hoping the new job will help. If you have any tips of how to train for climbing when you live in a flat country, please let me know.

J
Smash your legs up in the gym (loads of squats etc) then go out and ride in a bigger gear than you would normally use into the wind with ballast on the bike.
often lost.

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #120 on: 28 November, 2019, 01:16:24 pm »
<...>
I know climbing is my weakness, so for me a little extra distance to avoid climbing is worth it for me.

The 1600m from the valley floor up to the start of the Cp4 parcour is quite a chunk of climbing, but the first 200km after CP3 looks scary in terms of climb.

J

good news is that there is plenty of time to make climbing your strength. bad news is that nothing worthwhile comes easy.

Also time to take a good hard look at your current gear ratios.
often lost.

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #121 on: 28 November, 2019, 01:21:29 pm »
There's no magic, just try to improve your W/kg.  On turbo, on road or both

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #122 on: 28 November, 2019, 01:34:08 pm »

good news is that there is plenty of time to make climbing your strength. bad news is that nothing worthwhile comes easy.

I'm hoping the new job will help. If you have any tips of how to train for climbing when you live in a flat country, please let me know.

J

ok, my 2p.

following a structured plan on an indoor trainer would be the optimal solution. failing that, hill repeats twice a week, every week; if there are no hills within rideable distance, it's worth taking a train/driving. first month 1 hour long sessions, second month 1.5h, third and following months 2h. another alternative is doing hilly rides, if traveling is possible. ride up the hills hard and take it easy everywhere else. on flat terrain - high intensity intervals, say, reaching ~170bpm and keeping that intensity for as long as you can. few minutes easy pedaling and repeat again x 6...8. this would be my idea for hill training in addition to general cycling and one longer/easier ride per week.

recovery is equally (if not more) important, i.e. good nutrition, quality sleep, low physical and mental stress.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #123 on: 28 November, 2019, 01:45:55 pm »

Also time to take a good hard look at your current gear ratios.

I have an 11-40 cassette, and a 38/28 chainset. Do you think I should go lower?

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: TCR no8.
« Reply #124 on: 28 November, 2019, 02:19:21 pm »

Also time to take a good hard look at your current gear ratios.

I have an 11-40 cassette, and a 38/28 chainset. Do you think I should go lower?

J

I'm not qualified to say Im afraid QG. Im sure there are other members with lots more insight than me. Suffice to say that personally last year I had 1:1 ratio (34/34) and struggled with the ramps, admittedly with a recent fracture. It just wasn't enough and clipping in on a ramp was nigh on impossible.  I'm not getting any younger and will be downsizing on an upcoming build for touring and future races. I've selected 42/26 crankset with an 11/36 cassette and am exploring riding with flat pedals. If I struggle with that set up then its time for an e bike. 
There are a few charts out there that illustrate how much power you need to ride up what gradient in a specific gear, maybe worth a look.
Looks like you are geared pretty super low already mind you. I guess if you were running out of gears and weren't spinning out on the flats then it docent hurt to go even lower.
often lost.