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  • Bryan Chapman Memorial 600km BRM | 18th May 2024 | Chepstow: 18 May, 2024 - 19 May, 2024

Author Topic: Bryan Chapman 600km BRM + others | 17/18/19th May 2024 | Chepstow  (Read 23567 times)

JonB

  • Granny Ring ... Yes Please!
Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 600km BRM | 20th May 2023 | Chepstow
« Reply #50 on: 15 May, 2023, 01:29:16 pm »
Will's GWR website has the route as advisory with the following text under 'type and validation'
'The route is advisory - you just have to visit the controls and gain proof of passage within time limits where specified; there may be parts that you'd like to take a different route and that is entirely up to you; the time limits for the controls don't change!'

thing1

  • aka Joth
    • TandemThings
Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 600km BRM | 20th May 2023 | Chepstow
« Reply #51 on: 15 May, 2023, 02:05:44 pm »
Will's GWR website has the route as advisory with the following text under 'type and validation'
'The route is advisory - you just have to visit the controls and gain proof of passage within time limits where specified; there may be parts that you'd like to take a different route and that is entirely up to you; the time limits for the controls don't change!'

Thank you! I was searching under Details->General and Details->Route but didn't spot it on Overview. (Why I generally prefer one big webpage I can Ctrl-F on over having many sub-tabs to dig through)

thing1

  • aka Joth
    • TandemThings
Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 600km BRM | 20th May 2023 | Chepstow
« Reply #52 on: 15 May, 2023, 02:07:15 pm »
There is a way to display it on the events if it is marked correctly in the database - I will check why it wasn't showing for BC400 in case we have missed something.

Sounds good!
Just to clarify my suggestion: this should be displayed on all events (inc Advisory routes too), not just mandatory ones, to make it clear and avoid any incorrect assumption in the case of no-information being displayed.

bhoot

  • MemSec (ex-Mrs RRtY)
Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 600km BRM | 20th May 2023 | Chepstow
« Reply #53 on: 15 May, 2023, 02:39:47 pm »
OK - the BC400 was not marked in the database as a mandatory route. If you look at this one for example you can see what it would say https://www.audax.uk/event-details/10211-the_shark (I know it's in the past but it still shows)

I guess we have never shown specific wording for advisory as that is the "norm" in the UK so we have only flagged by exception. We can certainly look at always providing information in future (we have a new events planner in development so it could be tied into that).

Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 600km BRM | 20th May 2023 | Chepstow
« Reply #54 on: 15 May, 2023, 03:07:05 pm »
There is a way to display it on the events if it is marked correctly in the database - I will check why it wasn't showing for BC400 in case we have missed something.

It wasn't marked as mandatory in the organiser's event page.

Wycombewheeler

  • PBP-2019 LEL-2022
Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 600km BRM | 20th May 2023 | Chepstow
« Reply #55 on: 15 May, 2023, 04:04:15 pm »
There is a way to display it on the events if it is marked correctly in the database - I will check why it wasn't showing for BC400 in case we have missed something.

Sounds good!
Just to clarify my suggestion: this should be displayed on all events (inc Advisory routes too), not just mandatory ones, to make it clear and avoid any incorrect assumption in the case of no-information being displayed.

agree, I would suggest in the event information box a heading Route followed by "mandatory" or "advisory" as appropriate

Eddington  127miles, 170km

αdαmsκι

  • Instagram @ucfaaay Strava @ucfaaay
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Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 600km BRM | 20th May 2023 | Chepstow
« Reply #56 on: 15 May, 2023, 10:16:15 pm »
An easier solution would be to make all AUK calendar events mandatory routing  :demon:
What on earth am I doing here on this beautiful day?! This is the only life I've got!!

https://tyredandhungry.wordpress.com/

Wycombewheeler

  • PBP-2019 LEL-2022
Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 600km BRM | 20th May 2023 | Chepstow
« Reply #57 on: 16 May, 2023, 11:19:34 am »
An easier solution would be to make all AUK calendar events mandatory routing  :demon:

But we can't be trusted not to cheat, so this would need secret controls on every event, at cost of volunteers time.

Also there would be a backlash from those that think they can improve the route (often by smashing along busy main roads).

But mandatory routing on all events would be great if it meant no more requirement for over distance rides.

Eddington  127miles, 170km

Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 600km BRM | 20th May 2023 | Chepstow
« Reply #58 on: 16 May, 2023, 11:47:09 am »
Weather looking good.

I've got a 4am start, so hopefully will get to Aberdyfi for a few hours sleep.

It's tempting to try and push on through the night, but it will probably won't be far off zero degrees in the rural valleys near Newtown...

Wycombewheeler

  • PBP-2019 LEL-2022
Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 600km BRM | 20th May 2023 | Chepstow
« Reply #59 on: 16 May, 2023, 02:40:17 pm »
Weather looking good.

I've got a 4am start, so hopefully will get to Aberdyfi for a few hours sleep.

It's tempting to try and push on through the night, but it will probably won't be far off zero degrees in the rural valleys near Newtown...

Unless there is a 24 hour garage in Newtown, that's a long way between resupply as well. The route out of Newtown towards Knighton is pretty remote, start at 4, arrive at Aberdyfi around midnight, without a sleep, that's potentially 6.5 hours before being able to buy supplies, potentially at Weobly at 530km.

Eddington  127miles, 170km

Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 600km BRM | 20th May 2023 | Chepstow
« Reply #60 on: 16 May, 2023, 03:08:14 pm »
I'll probably see how I feel when I get to Aberdyfi - may stock up for the night if I feel like riding through or might just take the excuse to have some sleep. I guess this is an advantage of having put a speed that means I have a 6am start - I have 2 hours less of this problem

Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 600km BRM | 20th May 2023 | Chepstow
« Reply #61 on: 16 May, 2023, 03:13:10 pm »
An easier solution would be to make all AUK calendar events mandatory routing  :demon:

But we can't be trusted not to cheat, so this would need secret controls on every event, at cost of volunteers time.

Also there would be a backlash from those that think they can improve the route (often by smashing along busy main roads).

But mandatory routing on all events would be great if it meant no more requirement for over distance rides.

Mandatory routing would not give you the freedom to draw wiggly lines all over the map.  Shortest sensible/safe distance between controls would still apply.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 600km BRM | 20th May 2023 | Chepstow
« Reply #62 on: 16 May, 2023, 03:13:46 pm »
Why? Other countries can mandate a longer (than the shortest) route between controls.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 600km BRM | 20th May 2023 | Chepstow
« Reply #63 on: 16 May, 2023, 08:06:19 pm »
Why? Other countries can mandate a longer (than the shortest) route between controls.

Most countries use ACP/BRM rules. Article 8 says follow the route. https://www.audax-club-parisien.com/en/our-organizations/brm-world/#rules

Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 600km BRM | 20th May 2023 | Chepstow
« Reply #64 on: 16 May, 2023, 10:20:23 pm »
Why? Other countries can mandate a longer (than the shortest) route between controls.

This is the relevant rule -
Quote
Les contrôles doivent être judicieusement placés, par exemple aux changements de direction, avec trajet
à peu près direct entre deux contrôles.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 600km BRM | 20th May 2023 | Chepstow
« Reply #65 on: 16 May, 2023, 10:40:33 pm »
Other countries don’t interpret that rule as ‘computer says no’ like AUK does. I’ve ridden brevets in more countries than most here and they don’t muck around with meaningless controls to stop a 1km shortcut of a route. AUK prefers a 215km route over something that can be shortcut to 199km.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Wycombewheeler

  • PBP-2019 LEL-2022
Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 600km BRM | 20th May 2023 | Chepstow
« Reply #66 on: 16 May, 2023, 10:56:05 pm »

This is the relevant rule -
Quote
Les contrôles doivent être judicieusement placés, par exemple aux changements de direction, avec trajet
à peu près direct entre deux contrôles.

almost direct =/= the shortest possible route between controls.

so if the route is 201km, but it is possible to visit the controls in 195km by riding on a 70mph dual carriageway, this would not breach the text your quoted, but would not comply with AUK requirements. So we end up with routes that are often 207km or more, but no extra time for that extra distance under BRM rules because BRMs would not be expected to be significantly over distance.

Indeed you can get from Brest to Rambouillet visiting all the controls in significantly less than 600km (google maps walking), but that doesn't mater as the route is mandatory. Even setting to google maps cycling still comes up under distance. (Rambouilet to Brest would be shorter still due to not needing to visit Dreux (Or Mortagne au Perche))

There is a huge gap between drawing wiggly lines over the map and a rigorous application of shortest possible distance, especially using route measurement by walking which often includes footpaths across fields

Eddington  127miles, 170km

Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 600km BRM | 20th May 2023 | Chepstow
« Reply #67 on: 17 May, 2023, 06:20:49 am »
Perhaps a new thread is needed to discuss the rules and regs of mandatory routes and over distance.

Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 600km BRM | 20th May 2023 | Chepstow
« Reply #68 on: 17 May, 2023, 06:29:19 am »
 ;D ;D ;D

It never changes

Wycombewheeler

  • PBP-2019 LEL-2022
Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 600km BRM | 20th May 2023 | Chepstow
« Reply #69 on: 17 May, 2023, 09:59:14 am »
Perhaps a new thread is needed to discuss the rules and regs of mandatory routes and over distance.

sorry, back on topic


With the request not to park in Bulwark, I shall be parking in passage road in Aust, in a throwback to Severn bridge toll times,

Eddington  127miles, 170km

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 600km BRM | 20th May 2023 | Chepstow
« Reply #70 on: 17 May, 2023, 10:29:24 am »
Perhaps a new thread is needed to discuss the rules and regs of mandatory routes and over distance.

You can ask the mods to separate out those posts from this thread.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
    • Audaxing
Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 600km BRM | 20th May 2023 | Chepstow
« Reply #71 on: 17 May, 2023, 11:17:29 am »
;D ;D ;D

It never changes

BCM used to run with different routes, on the same day. You picked one
I remember one year there was an alternate route on the BCM that went right into Anglesea to "make up the distance". Only trouble was that it didn't need too make up any distance so it ended up somewhat over

Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 600km BRM | 20th May 2023 | Chepstow
« Reply #72 on: 17 May, 2023, 11:40:16 am »
I remember when BCM's routesheet distance was under 600km, in the days before AUK clamped down on any even slightly under-distance rides. The five other countries I've ridden audaxes all seem to take a much more reasonable approach, my favourite is Audax Italia - their 5% distance tolerance works both ways, the 6+6 Ajo BRM 600 rides I did last month were 587km / 590km.
“That slope may look insignificant, but it's going to be my destiny" - Fitzcarraldo

Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 600km BRM | 20th May 2023 | Chepstow
« Reply #73 on: 17 May, 2023, 11:41:34 am »
All my audaxes are under distance these days

thing1

  • aka Joth
    • TandemThings
Re: Bryan Chapman Memorial 600km BRM | 20th May 2023 | Chepstow
« Reply #74 on: 17 May, 2023, 11:51:13 am »
Weather currently looking very favourable
https://mywindsock.com/uploads/10553940/?&plid=26527&share_time=1684548000#forecast=1684551600

55% tailwind, no rain.