Author Topic: what little stove?  (Read 17188 times)

Cudzoziemiec

  • Моя планета голубая, я люблю тебя и обнимаю
Re: what little stove?
« Reply #50 on: 12 April, 2018, 04:07:01 pm »

Doing a fry up on a canister top stove when half asleep is a recipe for spilling bacon on the grass...

Remote canister stoves lower the centre of gravity, reducing this risk. But at the cost of extra weight and bulk.

This. 

Cannister-top stoves are simply crap on the sort of ground where 99.9999% of people need to use a camping stove.

I swear by the remote canister tripod style (similar to Wowbagger's Alpkit, though mine is steel - Campingaz). Rock solid for kettles and even large pans.  They are also easy to shelter from cross-winds.
Having proved that it is possible to simultaneously scald grass with a potful of boiling water and set it on fire by tipping over a lit stove, I've bought a stand for my cannister-top stove. It's just three plastic legs which the cannister sits on. Haven't had an opportunity to use it yet, but it was only £6 as opposed to eg £45 for the Alpkit remote cannister stove linked to above.
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

Re: what little stove?
« Reply #51 on: 12 April, 2018, 07:05:34 pm »
I've bought a stand for my cannister-top stove. It's just three plastic legs which the cannister sits on. Haven't had an opportunity to use it yet, but it was only £6 as opposed to eg £45 for the Alpkit remote cannister stove linked to above.
Different brands of canister vary in diameter, so some will fit better than others, with poorly fitting canisters either not being gripped properly, or the legs not properly spread out (eg  2x105°+ 150°, rather than 3x120°).

That's why I recommended the MSR version up above; one of the grippers is spring loaded so it grips all canisters reasonably.

I'd suggest visiting some shops and trying a few out, so at least you start off with a canister that fits.

Re: what little stove?
« Reply #52 on: 12 April, 2018, 07:37:37 pm »
using a pot cosy*

* pot cosies are made from Thermawrap, which can be bought in large rolls from Wickes, B&Q etc for around £25, or small quantities suitable for a couple of pots from backpackinglight.co.uk for around £7 (plus gaffer tape). If you've got 8-10 minute pasta, bring it to the boils, then put the pot in the cosy and it will be ready in 13-15 mins.

Ooh, having previously spent an inordinate amount of time waiting for rice to cook, that looks like an interesting approach. I'm curious to give it a go, having watched the how-to video and noting that Toolstation do a small roll of ThermaWrap for a tenner...

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: what little stove?
« Reply #53 on: 12 April, 2018, 07:45:08 pm »
using a pot cosy*

* pot cosies are made from Thermawrap, which can be bought in large rolls from Wickes, B&Q etc for around £25, or small quantities suitable for a couple of pots from backpackinglight.co.uk for around £7 (plus gaffer tape). If you've got 8-10 minute pasta, bring it to the boils, then put the pot in the cosy and it will be ready in 13-15 mins.

Ooh, having previously spent an inordinate amount of time waiting for rice to cook, that looks like an interesting approach. I'm curious to give it a go, having watched the how-to video and noting that Toolstation do a small roll of ThermaWrap for a tenner...

You don't actually need anything magic and insulaty for rice.  Bring it to the boil, put the lid on it, cook something meaty or otherwise in the 15 minute range and then maybe factor in a bonus 30 seconds to bring the lukewarm but by now miraculously fully cooked rice back up to temperature.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Моя планета голубая, я люблю тебя и обнимаю
Re: what little stove?
« Reply #54 on: 12 April, 2018, 08:05:06 pm »
I've bought a stand for my cannister-top stove. It's just three plastic legs which the cannister sits on. Haven't had an opportunity to use it yet, but it was only £6 as opposed to eg £45 for the Alpkit remote cannister stove linked to above.
Different brands of canister vary in diameter, so some will fit better than others, with poorly fitting canisters either not being gripped properly, or the legs not properly spread out (eg  2x105°+ 150°, rather than 3x120°).

That's why I recommended the MSR version up above; one of the grippers is spring loaded so it grips all canisters reasonably.

I'd suggest visiting some shops and trying a few out, so at least you start off with a canister that fits.
I wondered about different cannisters being different diameters so asked when I bought it – and was assured that all brands of the same size are the same diameter. Well, use will tell.
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

Re: what little stove?
« Reply #55 on: 13 April, 2018, 11:19:46 pm »
I've bought a stand for my cannister-top stove. It's just three plastic legs which the cannister sits on. Haven't had an opportunity to use it yet, but it was only £6 as opposed to eg £45 for the Alpkit remote cannister stove linked to above.
Different brands of canister vary in diameter, so some will fit better than others, with poorly fitting canisters either not being gripped properly, or the legs not properly spread out (eg  2x105°+ 150°, rather than 3x120°).

That's why I recommended the MSR version up above; one of the grippers is spring loaded so it grips all canisters reasonably.

I'd suggest visiting some shops and trying a few out, so at least you start off with a canister that fits.
I wondered about different cannisters being different diameters so asked when I bought it – and was assured that all brands of the same size are the same diameter. Well, use will tell.

That's not always the case from my experience
Old enough to know better, but young enough to do it anyway

Re: what little stove?
« Reply #56 on: 14 April, 2018, 02:32:19 am »
Would it be simpler to just plan on changing stoves a few times during your trip? Campingaz or alcohol for the European leg, Coleman fuel or multi-fuel for the North American leg, and whatever is most common in Asia. If nothing else, this would save you the trouble of arguing with airline security people about your stove every time you got on a plane.

Regarding MSR and other multi-fuel stoves: MSR's website states that their stoves will last longer and run better if they are used with white gas/Coleman fuel (or MSR's own rather expensive fuel). My experience is that running unleaded auto fuel in a MSR stove results in a fair bit of smoke and soot, while running Coleman fuel results in a much cleaner cooking experience. I've also found that US filling station owners/managers are getting pickier about what type of container their customers put fuel in.

One more vote for the MSR canister tripod over the plastic models. It's much sturdier and, as Oxford_Guy points out, canister size is not quite as consistent as the shop staff would have you believe.

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: what little stove?
« Reply #57 on: 14 April, 2018, 11:11:37 am »
Was that aimed at me mark?  That's basically the plan: exist on gas until Anchorage, then if I can't get it in Asia, buy a local petrol stove.  Then again, food in the sticks in China might well turn out to be cheap enough that I don't need to cook - it'll be something to find out on the ground.

Re: what little stove?
« Reply #58 on: 23 September, 2018, 12:03:33 pm »
I have a little titanium canister top stove that is very powerful and tiny.  However, anything running on butane/propane mix is hopeless in cold weather, by which I mean almost any summer morning.  It'll work wirh a fresh canister until the propane has boiled off, then dwindle to almost nothing.
And Darkness and Decay and the Coronavirus held illimitable dominion over all.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: what little stove?
« Reply #59 on: 23 September, 2018, 02:42:27 pm »
I have a little titanium canister top stove that is very powerful and tiny.  However, anything running on butane/propane mix is hopeless in cold weather, by which I mean almost any summer morning.  It'll work wirh a fresh canister until the propane has boiled off, then dwindle to almost nothing.

The best work-around for this is a stove with a pre-heat loop, but that adds bulk.

Or stand the cartridge in a container of water.  Tap-cold water is a much more effective way of delivering heat to the canister than chilly air.  But that adds even more bulk.

I've got one of those little titanium stoves, and it works nicely as a one-shot roadside brew-up device.  For camping, I either bring something better for actual cooking, or don't bother with a stove.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: what little stove?
« Reply #60 on: 23 September, 2018, 06:29:03 pm »
We have pads like a round hand warmer that work to warm the canister. An actual hand warmer might do the job as well. Or putting it in a sock in your sleeping bag.
Quote from: Kim
^ This woman knows what she's talking about.

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: what little stove?
« Reply #61 on: 23 September, 2018, 08:23:15 pm »

Here, more or less.



Given that route can I very strongly suggest that you *DO NOT* go for a canister top screw on stove (pocket rocket et al). You will find issues with finding fuel.

Go for a multifuel stove that allows you to screw on a canister too. MSR make a whisperlite stove that will work on liquid fuel (petrol mainly), and also canister gas. This is the most affordable of the multifuel stoves. Then you get into the MSR Dragonfly, lovely, burns everything, sounds like a jet engine, or the Primus stoves. The Primus Omnilite Ti is what I went for, it's the lightest multifuel stove, it burns petrol, diesel, av gas, kerosene, everything short of meths and vodka. If you can't justify the price of the titanium version, the omnifuel is much the same, but heavier. Note both primus stoves are loud, but they sell a silent adapter that screws on the top and improves things greatly.

I hear a lot "I've always used stove x, with fuel y, and I've never had any problem finding fuel for it." And I'm sure for many that is the case. For many that is not the case.

Two continents, four months and nine thousand miles in, do you know how many times I've had to go off-route to find the correct gas cylinder?  Once, with a round trip distance of fifteen miles.  I probably didn't need to make that diversion either, I was just being a bit paranoid about how long my cylinder would last.  I probably did need to make that diversion to stock up on food.

Is fifteen miles every four months an acceptable cost for the advantages given by a gas stove?  That's for the individual camper to decide of course, but if you aren't prepared to accept that level of risk then you should probably switch sports and take up tiddlywinks.  Personally I'm confident that my run of luck will hold out through Japan, so I'll be into a five figure mileage before I have to consider switching stoves in China.  At that point my £30 Soto gas stove will have been well worth it.

Re: what little stove?
« Reply #62 on: 23 September, 2018, 09:37:56 pm »
White gas stoves work in any conditions but they are not small or light.  Also, if you run them on available-everywhere petrol rather than nice clean naptha (Coleman fuel, Primus Powerfueĺ, Aspen 4, panel wipe) they stink and clog.  The SVEA 123 is probably the smallest but ir's a PITA to get going, with no pump.
And Darkness and Decay and the Coronavirus held illimitable dominion over all.

Stove for a loner
« Reply #63 on: 27 February, 2021, 11:08:04 pm »
Hi, my first post😀😀

I do almost all my cycling alone and the occasional audax (which I almost always seem to end up alone anyway!).  I don’t really like cafes and that when I go out for the day but prefer to be self sufficient to the fullest degree.   Though I som3times stop at a garage for a quick coffee and snack.

I’d like though a stove which is reasonably quick so I can make myself a fresh cuppa whilst I’m having a minute.   I might even get into it and do a quick pasta or rice bag for lunch.  You never know I might even do a bike packing overnight trip.   I was thinking a jetboil.   I don’t know much about stoves and don’t want to rush and get one if there are better choices.

Any advice?

Re: Stove for a loner
« Reply #64 on: 27 February, 2021, 11:50:20 pm »
I've had good service from this https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01LZ7OO76/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_F767AB9PVC8T6PVH757J?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

It's tiny and weighs next to nothing. Fits in a standard size camping mug along with a gas canister
Most of the stuff I say is true because I saw it in a dream and I don't have the presence of mind to make up lies when I'm asleep.   Bryan Andreas

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Stove for a loner
« Reply #65 on: 28 February, 2021, 12:48:16 am »
I've got something similar to the above, which combined with an Alpkit mug works well enough for hot drinks or snot noodles.

Jetboil style things are also a good option (I believe they're substantially more efficient, so quicker and less fuel-hungry), if you're only planning to boil water.

For longer camping trips involving real cooking, I prefer a Trangia.  But a meths stove isn't a brilliant way to make hot water if you're shivering in damp cycle kit at 3am.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Stove for a loner
« Reply #66 on: 28 February, 2021, 01:15:42 am »
A Jetboil, or copy, with a fresh gas canister, is the quickest way of boiling a mugful of water for your tea.
They are fairly wind resistant, and everything packs neatly inside the mug section.
However, they aren't too good for thicker stuff like a can of baked beans, as they are prone to burning stuff on the bottom, and, being operated in an upright position, can get quite a lot slower if it's not very warm and the gas canister is getting towards the end of its life.

Canister top stoves, like @Bolt's, are the smallest, lightest, and cheapest option. It's not so easy to keep the wind off the flame, and they have the same problem with the perfomance dropping off in the cold or towards the end of the canister.

The other alternative is a remote canister/preheat stove (eg Alpkit Koro). The preheat loop (a metal tube passing through the flame) means that the stove will run on liquid gas, with the gas canister upside down (turn canister over after the stove is lit). This allows full performance right to the end of the canister.
Having a wide base and being low to the ground, they are more resistant to being knocked over, and it's easier to keep the wind off.

There are also remote canister stoves without the preheat loop. These are good for stability and ease of wind protection, but are worse than canister top stoves for end-of-life or low temperature use. Attempting to turn the canister over will give a big flare and maybe set fire to something.

The problem of lack of performance in the cold or towards the end of the canister is because the propane that allows reasonably good performance on an unused canister gets used more quickly than the butane part of the gas mix, with the result that by the time the canister is much more than half used, there's hardly any propane left in the mix.
This can be mitigated to some extent by using an isobutane-propane gas mix (more expensive than basic propane/n-butane mixes).
(Propane boils at -42°C, isobutane boils at -12°C, n-butane boils at 0°C, the boiling point of a mix is intermediate, and the canister temperature needs to be about 10° over the boiling point for reasonable gas pressure).


FWIW, I use a remote canister/preheat stove (MSR Windpro)


For a roadside cuppa, another alternative is a thermos.
The right 500 ml flask will go in a bottle cage, and if you preheat the flask and fill with freshly brewed black tea, it's still OK 4 hours or so later. Milk is best taken separately and added at drinkies time.

Davef

Stove for a loner
« Reply #67 on: 28 February, 2021, 07:28:35 am »
I would consider a solid fuel burner. Half  a tablet will boil a 500ml titanium mug of water in a couple of minutes. I have a burner that weighs 13g and folds away to the size of a matchbox.

https://esbit.de/en/product/solid-fuel-stove-titanium-st11-5-ti/  shows it in use with a 750ml pot, but I use a mug with a lid.

That said, most of the time I just use a vacuum flask.


Re: Stove for a loner
« Reply #68 on: 28 February, 2021, 09:46:05 am »
I like the Jetboil style, had the original version for 12 years before it wore out, replaced with a Primus Lite+ which is smaller, a bit better in the wind, has a nicer pot to stove coupling and some small pins so it can be used with any pot.  I boil water with it, that's all, mostly for drinks, occasionally for some instant food. It's small enough to carry on day rides and not resent it if it doesn't get used. There are faster and smaller stoves, but it's a very neat package and one thing not often mentioned is how discreet it is, I've used mine in places where setting up a stove might draw attention.   I did buy the Jetboil 1.5L pot to use it for cooking, but didn't get much use from it, it offered no advantage over a conventional stove.  There's several much cheaper variants, I bought but didn't keep an Alpkit one, it was certainly good value, but bulky and crude compared to the Jetboil or Primus. The good ones are not cheap, but I don't enjoy sitting in a cafe if I'm on my own and in comparison the Jetboil paid for itself many times over.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Stove for a loner
« Reply #69 on: 28 February, 2021, 11:03:04 am »

Stoves. I hope you plan to cook the can of worms you just opened :p

What are your trade offs? what would you prioritise? You can generally have only some of the below:

1) Affordable
2) fast
3) resilient in the wind
4) efficient
5) clean to use
6) lightweight
7) stable

Let's come back to 1.

For fast, you can't really beat the jet boil type stoves. I had a pre production review unit for the alpkit clone. I am pleased to see all my feedback was taken on board. The unit I had would boil 500ml of water in a couple of minutes, and would do so on just 5g of gas. Very efficient. But it is a one trick pony. You boil water, nothing more. Fine for heating up a boil in a bag meal. But try to heat up a tin of soup and you're more likely to weld it to the bottom. But for a cuppa on the road, hard to beat.

The trade off for the jetboil and clones is weight. They are not small, they are not light. You could go with the BRS3000 or any of the many similar stoves like that linked above. Be careful tho, some of the cheap chinese stoves have a nasty habbit of exuberant unexpected disassembly. They are also atrocious in the wind, unless you get one of the fancier ones like the MSR pocket rocket deluxe, even then it's not fantastic, but it's better than the rest. The other downside of the canister top stove is they are not very stable. This is a problem for the jet boil as well.

You can get remote canister stoves, but the issue you run into then is they are bulkier, and often heavier.

Kim mentioned the trangia, but there's a lots more to alcohol stoves than just the trangia. I have an Evernew titanium clone of the trangia, and it's amazing. For a meths stove it's fast, it's light, and it works well. At boiling water.



The problem with a lot of these stoves is you can't turn them off, and you have to basically burn all the fuel you put in them. The trangia does allow you to store fuel in the stove, but it's a heavy unit. I have a zelph starlite stove, which does allow you to put the lid on, and store fuel in the stove. It's lovely. It's light, it's efficient. and it's bloody slow. BUT. The big weakness of meths stoves is the cold, below about 10°C, they become a pain to light. If I have a meths stove on a winter trip I keep the fuel bottle inside my jersey for a bit before I use it, to warm it up a bit.

What about esbit solid fuel stoves? Well they work. But they are messy. You can't turn them on/off, they leave a horrible residue, and they are slow. And you have to worry about the wind.

So what does this boil down to? (sorry).

Pick what is most important to you. Want fast and efficient, get a jet boil. Want cheap, light and reasonably fast, get a stove top gas unit. Want cheap, light, and don't care about the speed, get a meths stove like the zelph starlite (and a pot stand and wind shield).

I have a selection of stoves in my collection. The one I use for big trips is a primus omnilite. Why? Because I don't have to worry about fuel. I can run it on a gas can, I can run it on petrol, I can run it on av gas. "But you can get gas canisters everywhere!" I hear you cry. Can you tho? A few years back my then housemate was going hiking with his mum in Northern Italy. I offered to lend him my MSR Whisperlite international stove.

"It's ok, I've got my gas stove we'll be fine" said his mum
"you won't be able to find gas for it" said I
"Sure we will, it's standard" she replied.

I didn't push the matter.

Two weeks later said housemate staggers up the stairs into the flat.

"Turns out you're right about the gas canisters"
"Oh?"
"Yep, we could get gas all right, but none of them had the right fitting for our stove"
"Let me guess, blue camping gaz"
"Yep"
"What did you end up doing?"
"I had an esbit stove with me, we used it for the whole trip"

We think that the threaded canister is standard, but it's far from universal. In France and some neighbouring areas, the blue camping gaz pieced containers are the most common, and to get a threaded unit can take a lot of distance. You can get adaptors, but that's going to add weight, and bulk. This is why I love my omnilite. I don't have to worry about fuel, I can always find a petrol station, or maybe a farmer has some diesel. It'll burn everything, apart from meths. But that's fine, cos I also carry my zelph starlyte. That thing weighs less than 20g. My omnilite ticks off everything apart from affordable.

On the subject of fuel canisters. If you go the gas route, get the MSR ISOPRO ones. They have a gauge on the side, pop in a pan of water, and see what level it floats at, read off the markings, and you know how much fuel you have left.

Hopefully this helps a bit.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Stove for a loner
« Reply #70 on: 28 February, 2021, 11:12:49 am »


Found another useful picture:



That's an MSR ISOPRO gas cart with the level markings.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Stove for a loner
« Reply #71 on: 28 February, 2021, 12:04:33 pm »
pop in a pan of water

This is also the solution to pressure problems in cold conditions or with mostly-depleted gas canisters.  The water is a much better source of heat than air, and serves to keep the butane above its boiling point.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Davef

Stove for a loner
« Reply #72 on: 28 February, 2021, 01:15:01 pm »

As mentioned by QG solid fuel is affected by wind but most stoves benefit from a wind break. I have fashioned my own which I wrap round the mug when stowed. I now have a proper lid.

I also have an msr whisperlite multi fuel stove from the 80s that burns petrol which is handy sometimes, various gas stoves including a jet boil and a trangia style meths burner.

I disagree that you cannot stop a meths or solid fuel burner once lit.

Edit: and here it is packed away and popped over the top of a bidon ready to go in the bottle cage.


Re: Stove for a loner
« Reply #73 on: 28 February, 2021, 01:47:49 pm »
Hi, my first post😀😀
/snip/
Any advice?
Welcome !

And I think the answer to that question is 'yes'.  :-)
Rust never sleeps

Re: Stove for a loner
« Reply #74 on: 28 February, 2021, 03:00:57 pm »
Hi, my first post😀😀

I do almost all my cycling alone and the occasional audax (which I almost always seem to end up alone anyway!).  I don’t really like cafes and that when I go out for the day but prefer to be self sufficient to the fullest degree.   Though I som3times stop at a garage for a quick coffee and snack.

I’d like though a stove which is reasonably quick so I can make myself a fresh cuppa whilst I’m having a minute.   I might even get into it and do a quick pasta or rice bag for lunch.  You never know I might even do a bike packing overnight trip.   I was thinking a jetboil.   I don’t know much about stoves and don’t want to rush and get one if there are better choices.

Any advice?

For late spring through early fall temperatures, the various cartridge top burners (MSR Pocket Rocket, Snow Peak GigaPower, etc.)will work just fine, without the bulk, weight and expense of system stoves (dedicated, insulated pot with heat trap) like the JetBoil or the MSR Windburner. Most cartridge top stoves can be packed into a 700ml or larger pot together with a 100g cartridge and a Bic cigarette lighter, making a very compact, lightweight package. As the temperatures drop,  the heat exchanger and insulated pot of a system stove speeds up the boiling process greatly, and the insulated pot is nice to drink your coffee/tea out of on a cold day. I've found the MSR Windburner to be about the sturdiest and most wind resistant of the system stoves, and the burner design is very efficient.

Lots of gas cartridge stoves come with a piezoelectric push button igniter, which the sales staff will tell you is a very convenient, easy way to light your stove. It would be if it worked, but they never seem to work in any but the most benign conditions. I've found a disposable cigarette lighter (a Bic lighter) to be about the most dependable way to light a stove. If it's really cold out I might have to clench it in my fist to warm up the butane, but otherwise these are a very dependable way to get your stove going.