Wearing a tie

[Cudzoziemiec]

I thought we already had a thread about wearing a tie, but a search failed to find one. (I did find several curious or interesting threads about cable tie contests, wearing scarves as well as one called "What are you wearing?" https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5538.msg94567#msg94567 and one "Today I am wearing" https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=45651.msg898645#msg898645). But none specifically about wearing a tie, so I've started one.

And the first thing is... "descended from the codpiece"! Really?

Clothing is inherently political in its ability to represent the values of our culture, and the necktie is one of the most politically charged items of body adornment. For those unfamiliar, the necktie is derived from the codpiece, a fabric flap or pouch designed 500 years ago to emphasise a European nobleman’s importance through his large phallic size. Today, the necktie retains its connection with the codpiece through its arrow shaped design and length that directs the eye of an onlooker down towards a man’s groin.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2021/feb/08/the-phallic-necktie-is-an-outdated-symbol-of-white-male-rule-in-new-zealands-parliament
I am doubtful. Even if it does share some origin, the connection is hardly obvious today.

As a bonus, I note that the percentage of Maori in parliament exceeds their percentage in the population at large (16% from what I've read elsewhere).

[ElyDave]

I ticked never, rather than occasionally, having worn one about once every 5 years in the last 15 years. I just don't see how wearing a strip of cloth round your neck makes you any smarter or more competent. Just look at BSJ as an example he always wears one, rarely done up, and looks like a bag of shit

[fboab]

Only at funerals.

(click to show/hide)

You need to be careful of NZ stats. They used to say there were more Samoans in Wellington than Samoa - but Wiki says that's not quite true

Samoa: 202,506
NZ Samoans: 144,138

[ian]

They can look good if it's part of your dress style, but it's mostly blokes badly wrapped in a cheap suit and tie, like the sort of gift you don't want. It's a sartorial sulk. They're making me do it. Which is mostly the case.

I've not worn one since school. Or a blazer with a half-ripped off pocket for that matter.

[andrewc]

Occasionally when I want to look smart, usually for social events.   I've not worn one to work for about 20 years, but used to enjoy wearing eye wateringly bright ones to break up the monotony. 


These days I buy nice ones on ebay, and actually have far more than I could regularly wear. 


Not what I'm wearing today (still in PJ's!)  A William Morris pattern I think.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Just look at BSJ as an example he always wears one, rarely done up, and looks like a bag of shit

That makes wearing a tie the only truthful thing about him.

[pcolbeck]

That explanation for the origin of the tie seems entirely bogus to me.  Surely they evolved from neckerchiefs / cravats which aren't long and pointy at all.
The modern long tie with a pointy end is a 20th century fashion invention.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Wikipedia says:

The necktie that spread from Europe traces back to Croatian mercenaries serving in France during the Thirty Years' War (1618–1648). These mercenaries from the Croatian Military Frontier, wearing their traditional small, knotted neckerchiefs, aroused the interest of the Parisians.[2] Because of the difference between the Croatian word for Croats, Hrvati, and the French word, Croates, the garment gained the name cravat (cravate in French).[3] The boy-king Louis XIV began wearing a lace cravat around 1646, when he was seven, and set the fashion for French nobility. This new article of clothing started a fashion craze in Europe; both men and women wore pieces of fabric around their necks. From its introduction by the French king, men wore lace cravats, or jabots, that took a large amount of time and effort to arrange. These cravats were often tied in place by cravat strings, arranged neatly and tied in a bow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necktie#Origins

The phallic codpiece theory smacks to me of being invented to make a political point.

[Pedal Castro]

Certainly used in ancient China as an identifier of who's on your side in battle. Possibly originated as a cloth napkin tucked into your shirt neck to keep food off your best clothes?

[Jaded]

You need an option for: White Tie only

[The Family Cyclist]

There was tie and general work clothing mention here

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=115123.msg2511930#msg2511930

[Mr Larrington]

I think the last time was for a job interview in 2006.  Before that, two funerals in 2003 and 2002.  The last time they were a regular thing was mid-1997.  But in the last two jobs, with pretty lax dress codes, there were still oddballs who wore them every day.  Bain't be natural.

[Regulator]

I thought we already had a thread about wearing a tie, but a search failed to find one. (I did find several curious or interesting threads about cable tie contests, wearing scarves as well as one called "What are you wearing?" https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5538.msg94567#msg94567 and one "Today I am wearing" https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=45651.msg898645#msg898645). But none specifically about wearing a tie, so I've started one.

And the first thing is... "descended from the codpiece"! Really?

Clothing is inherently political in its ability to represent the values of our culture, and the necktie is one of the most politically charged items of body adornment. For those unfamiliar, the necktie is derived from the codpiece, a fabric flap or pouch designed 500 years ago to emphasise a European nobleman’s importance through his large phallic size. Today, the necktie retains its connection with the codpiece through its arrow shaped design and length that directs the eye of an onlooker down towards a man’s groin.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2021/feb/08/the-phallic-necktie-is-an-outdated-symbol-of-white-male-rule-in-new-zealands-parliament
I am doubtful. Even if it does share some origin, the connection is hardly obvious today.

As a bonus, I note that the percentage of Maori in parliament exceeds their percentage in the population at large (16% from what I've read elsewhere).

C.16.5% of NZ's population is Maori.  There are currently 24 Maori MPs in the 120 member Parliament - so 20%.   

There are 7 Maori Electorate seats - but you don't actually have to be Maori to stand for one of those seats.

The Maori Party, headed by Rawiri Waititi, lost most of it's seats in the last election.  They've not exactly wowed the Maori population with their stances on many things. 

Most Maori MPs are members of the Labour Party (15) followed by the Green Party and ACT Party who have three each, the National Party has 2 and the Maori Party has 1.

[robgul]

Tie wearing since 2000 for me:

Two weddings (daughters)
One funeral (father-in-law)
One speaking engagement (The Pedal Club)
Three events as an invitee (RAF Sunset Ceremony at Valley, The Pickwick Club and Henley Regatta)
One commemoration event (75th Anniversay of the Great Escape at Zagan, Poland)

That's it (tie collection pruned from about 30 pre-2000 to just 5 now)

Suit wearing has only been at the events listed other than Poland where I wore a "sports jacket"  - suit collection now 2 (and they both still fit) one dark and formal, one a little more informal.

[Jurek]

I've not owned or worn one for at least 40 years.
With the exception of a couple of people in the accounts department, nobody wears one at work.

[Regulator]

I used to regularly wear ties and have some really nice ones.  I haven't really worn one for about 10 years, as no tie is now de rigueur in healthcare - even in admin.

Last few weddings I've been to have been no tie affairs as well...

[davelodwig]

They can look good if it's part of your dress style, but it's mostly blokes badly wrapped in a cheap suit and tie, like the sort of gift you don't want. It's a sartorial sulk. They're making me do it. Which is mostly the case.

I've not worn one since school. Or a blazer with a half-ripped off pocket for that matter.

Previously I worked in a place which had a casual dress code, and have increasingly found myself dressing up.  Now I'm at a megacorp and there is some expectation I should make some sort of effort.

Despite the project I'm currently on's client being super laidback (employees wandering around in shorts and flip flops in winter complaining the building is cold*) I tend to wear waistcoats and shirts, and will dress them up with a tie or more usually a bowtie. The few I have are liberty or William Morris prints.

Occasionally I am accused of being the best dressed chap in the office.

* one commented on the internal social media that it was so cold they had to go out and buy a jumper, in December. You just can't help some people.

[andrewc]

They can look good if it's part of your dress style, but it's mostly blokes badly wrapped in a cheap suit and tie, like the sort of gift you don't want. It's a sartorial sulk. They're making me do it. Which is mostly the case.

I've not worn one since school. Or a blazer with a half-ripped off pocket for that matter.

Previously I worked in a place which had a casual dress code, and have increasingly found myself dressing up.  Now I'm at a megacorp and there is some expectation I should make some sort of effort.

Despite the project I'm currently on's client being super laidback (employees wandering around in shorts and flip flops in winter complaining the building is cold*) I tend to wear waistcoats and shirts, and will dress them up with a tie or more usually a bowtie. The few I have are liberty or William Morris prints.

I've got a couple of gorgeous Liberty silk waistcoats,  I just need to slim down a bit 

[ElyDave]

last funeral was an uncle of mine, he stipulated bright clothes, not a tie in sight
last wedding on wife's side, there was a distinct age-based split of tie wearing or not.  I was around the cusp, but a sizeable portion of under 50's not wearing one, and most under 30's not

[davelodwig]

They can look good if it's part of your dress style, but it's mostly blokes badly wrapped in a cheap suit and tie, like the sort of gift you don't want. It's a sartorial sulk. They're making me do it. Which is mostly the case.

I've not worn one since school. Or a blazer with a half-ripped off pocket for that matter.

Previously I worked in a place which had a casual dress code, and have increasingly found myself dressing up.  Now I'm at a megacorp and there is some expectation I should make some sort of effort.

Despite the project I'm currently on's client being super laidback (employees wandering around in shorts and flip flops in winter complaining the building is cold*) I tend to wear waistcoats and shirts, and will dress them up with a tie or more usually a bowtie. The few I have are liberty or William Morris prints.

I've got a couple of gorgeous Liberty silk waistcoats,  I just need to slim down a bit 

I have a local shop I am a frequent flyer at. 

https://www.jameslearofarundel.com/

Not that I'm playing up to any Cotswolds tropes.

[Cudzoziemiec]

They can look good if it's part of your dress style, but it's mostly blokes badly wrapped in a cheap suit and tie, like the sort of gift you don't want. It's a sartorial sulk. They're making me do it. Which is mostly the case.

I've not worn one since school. Or a blazer with a half-ripped off pocket for that matter.

Previously I worked in a place which had a casual dress code, and have increasingly found myself dressing up.  Now I'm at a megacorp and there is some expectation I should make some sort of effort.

Despite the project I'm currently on's client being super laidback (employees wandering around in shorts and flip flops in winter complaining the building is cold*) I tend to wear waistcoats and shirts, and will dress them up with a tie or more usually a bowtie. The few I have are liberty or William Morris prints.

Occasionally I am accused of being the best dressed chap in the office.

I remember a long ago flatmate's father used to wear a bowtie. This was because he had a business printing t-shirts and a conventional tie might get caught in the machinery.

* one commented on the internal social media that it was so cold they had to go out and buy a jumper, in December. You just can't help some people.

Ah, yes. An indoor temperature of at least 20C is in the Geneva Convention and the UN Charter, don't you know? (The heating thread is thataway>)

[rafletcher]

I've worn one at a wedding, and a funeral, and 2, no 3 job interviews in the last 20 years. The and I only wore a suit to one of those events.

[andrewc]

I remember a long ago flatmate's father used to wear a bowtie. This was because he had a business printing t-shirts and a conventional tie might get caught in the machinery.

My first ever job was office monkey, ensuring that a couple of huge industrial spec dot matrix printers were fed with concertina'd insurance certificates,  then getting those certificates from the other end & feeding them into a "burster" to remove the punched edges & split them up.  The tie was tucked away for that job.  Dusty as well, I used to itch & sneeze.   Elf & safe tea?  What was that ? 

[T42]

In the last 30 years, I've worn one for two funerals, one wedding and one naturalisation ceremony.  It was the same tie every time, and the same suit.

[pcolbeck]

My father in law is a cravat wearer. He's not posh more country. Might also be because he used to be a stone mason, ties are not very good when working on castle or cathedral walls.