SPAUDAX

[Manotea]

Huh huh, my little rant reflected a certain frustration in progressing routes which are nominally 1 or 2 km under by absolute shortest distance between controls when they are way over 'on the road'. Like I said, its amazing how often this happens, and ISTM more of an issue in the SE where there are simply more roads.

The reality is that its relatively simple to get round this when organising ones own rides, more of a problem when trying to co-ordinate with other riders.  

[plum]

I think that it was Phil earlier on that mentioned these newer style events getting their own web promotion, separate from the Audax UK pages. Speaking as a newcomer to either scene I'd like to add that as far as I can see Audax UK will be left further and further behind the Sportives [or any other organised recreational cycling] for as long as they maintain that ridiculous website. I've never seen anything like it.

The Cyclosport website is ten years out of date but at least it's clean, comprehensive, and comprehensible. A nice easy list of things to do, how much they cost, where to go and when to turn up.

Then look at the Audax UK website, it can only have been written as an inside joke, intended to keep the rest of us out. Arcane, obtuse, mostly incomprehensible, completely inaccessible. Until they drag that thing into the 1990s they'll remain [and quite happily so I'm sure] the second choice for anyone wishing to take part in recreational riding.  

[drossall]

I'm very aware that this is all done by volunteers, and that they mostly want to share their love of distance riding with like-minded souls. This is not necessarily the same thing as trying to encourage new riders - although all sports need a constant supply of new blood.

For me, the Audax site is much better when the event organiser has a supporting Web page of his/her own with a description, linked from the Audax calendar. It's not the calendar itself, therefore - it's just that you need a text page to "sell" the event, and that can be anywhere. On a club site is good, for example.

[DanialW]

Then look at the Audax UK website, it can only have been written as an inside joke, intended to keep the rest of us out. Arcane, obtuse, mostly incomprehensible, completely inaccessible. Until they drag that thing into the 1990s they'll remain [and quite happily so I'm sure] the second choice for anyone wishing to take part in recreational riding.  

It was written by a volunteer who learned on the job. The volunteer spent years pulling it together, at no cost to AUK. This volunteer is a regular contributor to this forum. This volunteer has handed the job over to another volunteer, who now appears to spending large amounts of his free time coding for AUK.

Note the number of times I use the word 'volunteer'. Actually, AUK pay me an annual honorarium of £300. I'm very happy to receive this money, but I would be a richer man if I spent the time I spend on AUK work cleaning floors at minimum wage. I suspect the volunteer who built the AUK website never accepted his honorarium.

I don't think you've made your points in a particularly helpful way.

[DanialW]

I'm very aware that this is all done by volunteers, and that they mostly want to share their love of distance riding with like-minded souls. This is not necessarily the same thing as trying to encourage new riders - although all sports need a constant supply of new blood.

For me, the Audax site is much better when the event organiser has a supporting Web page of his/her own with a description, linked from the Audax calendar. It's not the calendar itself, therefore - it's just that you need a text page to "sell" the event, and that can be anywhere. On a club site is good, for example.

That's more like it. See? Pretty much the same point made by plum, written politely, together with a suggestion for improvement.

[MSeries]

six pages in and the OP hasn't commented. If I didn't know he is a nice bloke I'd suggest he was spamming or flaming or whatever it's called, but I have no doubt that 3peaker had the best intentions.

Manotea, the SE isn't the only place where 3km underdistance routes end up being 20km over once ridden. There are lots and lots of roads in the north too !!!

Now, this is the Audax & Sportive and some people seem to be suggesting that AUK should be responsible for promoting all aspects of cycling in this country. It isn't. It's for promoting brevet rides, audaxes, that is, rides with brevet cards, min/max speeds, standardised, minimum distances, international homologation. That's what it's for. Maybe we ought to drop the strap line "The Long Distance Cyclists Organisation" since people are taking it too literally. Long distance cyclists who don't do Audaxes are wrong to expect AUK to cater for them, the clue is in the name AUDAX UK, we organise Audaxes and they have regulations.

There is a mechanism for change, any member, can propose changes and present their proposal at the AGM. Go for it. It's a democratic organisation, if the majority want it, they'll attend and support you. Non members have no right to change the organisation.

Are Audax events being 'left behind' sportives ? Is that a problem ? Are audax events failing those who do them now ? Individual organisers are free to promote their events however they wish, some events are very popular some less so, yet all are AUK events and have access to the same AUK facilities. Poor or ineffective promotion isn't an AUK issue it's an organiser issue. Maybe those organisers who are moaning about too few riders ought to take a leave out of Chris Crosslands or John Hamiltons  or Mark Rigby's book, these people and others are able to attract many riders and host great events.  Are there any organisers who are moaning about too few riders or is it just a few stirrers on here.

AUK is not some great body who sit in offices and do this, AUK is all of us members. Some of whom host events. That's it.

[mattc]

*** Save The AUK Website ***

It's perfect as it is!

What some people forget is that adding graphics, sexy interactive gizmos and fancy fonts only increases the appeal of a site for some people. Others, especially with smaller or lower-powered devices, find "sexed-up" websites unusable*. Have you noticed folks are using the Interweb on smaller devices these days (and often with lower bandwidths)? It's not just an "old fogey" issue.

If anyone disagrees with me, I will accept any use-case based usability challenge. Lets really see how long, and how many mouse-clicks, it takes to find certain information from scratch.

Plus, as others have observed, individual orgs are able to link to their own website, sexy or traditional. Isn't choice a good thing? Perhaps I don't want rotating flaming logos rammed down my throat?

</justified rant>
*And this is before you get into REAL usability issues i.e. access for all, with visual impairments and-what-have-you

[Jaded]

Web site - organisers pages for rides are a great idea. However if they aren't web savvy it is a huge job. Could there be some kind of simple content management system for less web savvy organisers to put their rides on?

Over distance - maybe we should run all events on tracks, with laser measured distances? Plus people should not be allowed to ride to or from the ride, for fear of them cycling a little too far.

[perpetual dan]

I'm more or less a newcomer to audax, and have never ridden a sportive. I didn't find the AUK web site hard to use, although more information about some events would be welcome. Having just picked two events from the cyclosport web site I have found one where the information was essentially the same as for most AUK rides, just formatted in a prettier way; and a second where the hyperbole was rather off-putting.

[LindaG]

Seconded.  I'm also a newcomer to Audax.  I soon got the hang of the website.  There is a massive amount of information on there.  The site is a great resource.  It's never going to be easy to organise. 

Extra information about events via a link to another site, or other means, is useful.

[MSeries]

Agree. More information, less cryptic information on the AUK website would be welcome. Most people will look stuff up on line these days.

[frankly frankie]

The majority of Audax Organisers are very happy with the 'small beer' approach.  From a rider's perspective, it isn't so good - but it's all the Orgs can handle, and many Orgs put upper limits on their numbers, sometimes well below 100.  For these types particularly, more publicity and a higher profile wouldn't be welcome.

[MSeries]

The majority of Audax Organisers are very happy with the 'small beer' approach.  From a rider's perspective, it isn't so good - but it's all the Orgs can handle, and many Orgs put upper limits on their numbers, sometimes well below 100.  For these types particularly, more publicity and a higher profile wouldn't be welcome.

I thought that was the case.

[MSeries]

. Arcane, obtuse, mostly incomprehensible, completely inaccessible. Until they drag that thing into the 1990s they'll remain [and quite happily so I'm sure] the second choice for anyone wishing to take part in recreational riding. 

It's not completely inaccessible. Some people do use it.

[jogler]

Don't lose sight of the fact that AUK organisers do what they do of their own volition.They are not compelled to do it.Don't be too quick to criticise someone untill you have walked  cycled a mile in their shoes.

[MSeries]

Don't lose sight of the fact that AUK organisers do what they do of their own volition.They are not compelled to do it.Don't be too quick to criticise someone untill you have walked  cycled a mile in their shoes.

and for £2.50 for a 100km event.

[Karla]

Now, this is the Audax & Sportive and some people seem to be suggesting that AUK should be responsible for promoting all aspects of cycling in this country. It isn't. It's for promoting brevet rides, audaxes,

Randonees, to be pedantic.  Ask UAF   

Don't be too quick to criticise someone untill you have walked  cycled a mile in their shoes.

That depends, do they use the same pedals as me?  Calling all organisers who use Speedplay Frogs, are you there?

[MSeries]

Now, this is the Audax & Sportive and some people seem to be suggesting that AUK should be responsible for promoting all aspects of cycling in this country. It isn't. It's for promoting brevet rides, audaxes,

Randonees, to be pedantic.  Ask UAF  

Randonees are 200km or further, AUK organise shorter events than that, that's why I used brevet rides. Anyway my point is that AUK are for rides where we use a routesheet, have speed limits and use a proof of passage mechanism.

Who is UAF ? Unite Against Facism ?

[jogler]

You Are Famous?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Now, this is the Audax & Sportive and some people seem to be suggesting that AUK should be responsible for promoting all aspects of cycling in this country. It isn't. It's for promoting brevet rides, audaxes,

Randonees, to be pedantic.  Ask UAF  

Randonees are 200km or further, AUK organise shorter events than that, that's why I used brevet rides. Anyway my point is that AUK are for rides where we use a routesheet, have speed limits and use a proof of passage mechanism.

Who is UAF ? Unite Against Facism ?

Not so, you are taking a too-limited view of things.  The FFCT list randonneur and audax brevets in their calendar, there is no requirement that randonees must be at least 200 km.  Calendrier national Où irons-nous ? It is only the Audax Club Parisien who requires their randonnees to be at least 200 km.

For more information about the difference between Audax and Randoneur brevets and the links with ACP and UAF, have a look at PBP Audax, not PBP Randonneur and A Little History

[Karla]

Union des Audax Francais (beware popups)
They run the original type of audax rides, all riding as a group, what Henri Desgrange set up before the invention of allure libre randonee rides.

[Thankyou LittleWheelsandBig, you beat me to it.]

[MSeries]

Whatever LWaB, whatever, that's not my point though.  Too many fucking pedants in this forum, arguing for the fucking sake of being a smartarse

[MSeries]

Union des Audax Francais (beware popups)
They run the original type of audax rides, all riding as a group, what Henri Desgrange set up before the invention of allure libre randonee rides.

[Thankyou LittleWheelsandBig, you beat me to it.]

quite irrelevant to my point though, and distracting

[MattH]

It was written by a volunteer who learned on the job. The volunteer spent years pulling it together, at no cost to AUK. This volunteer is a regular contributor to this forum. This volunteer has handed the job over to another volunteer, who now appears to spending large amounts of his free time coding for AUK.

I agree that there are some things that could be done to make it easier for a newcomer to get started and understand the calendar. I'll have a look into this and have a chat with the systems manager - a "newbies look here" guide wouldn't go amiss. I know other things are going on behind the scenes, and whilst I can't speak for the SM, if you are a good web designer then you could always offer your services to come up with a design revamp.

What I didn't realise until I got access to the code is quite how much work has gone into the AUK site - work that is still ongoing as the new SM is very active. There is a huge amount of functionality under the hood to keep all the records straight, managing events etc.  This backend functionality isn't something that could be trivially replaced by a fancy looking Wordpress site.

As an aside, it was also quite surprising (in a very good way) that the original volunteer who did all that coding had put together a decent technical manual for the site, document what everything does and how it does it, how the database works etc. It is a fairly substantial tome, which in itself demonstrates how much work has gone into the site.

[richie]

Aaaah, the power of the internet.

Enabling people everywhere to have a go at  volunteers doing their bestest in order to provide a good day out.
Certain people seem to want everything on a plate for the princely sum of a few pints of beer.
In a few months time i am helping out on a 400.   For an extra £2 I'll even ride the event for you - just let me know what you are unhappy about on that day and i'll fill it in on this forum afterwards.  Think of it as 'proxy whinging', if you like, allowing you maximum whinging time without the 20+ hours on the bike to think about.

Alternatively you can always offer your services and blow an entire weekends worth of family life for no reward except getting popped at on t'net.