Weeding/editing routepoints for navigation of a route...

[andyoxon]

Thanks all.

Feanor, I've trying this method out on the Blowingstone audax route (with all the route sheet entries as waypoints in this particular case).  I finished routing the whole thing and found that I had the route going anticlockwise instead of clockwise...  Fortunately I discovered 'invert route', which did the trick.     Also realised that unchecking 'avoid unpaved roads' is necessary for any off roady bits...   

Using the Route tool in Mapsource, I click once on the start Waypoint, and then once on the destination Waypoint.
The machine draws a fat purple line along the ( wrong ) roads.
The Route properties show it contains exactly 2 Waypoints.
I then drag-and-drop the Route to the roads I want ( ie to follow the Track ).
Each time I do this, it adds 1 via point to the Route.
If I'm careful about where I place the via points, then it generally doesn't take more than a few to poke the Route along the way I want to go.

So I never have to weed down the number of via-points.
I start from zero, and add them as required.

[Somnolent]

There is a (not perfect - but much quicker) alternative to doing it in Mapsource.

GPXeditor has a utility to turn a track into a route, labelling each routepoint in something approaching audaxese as it goes.
Here I've created a track between two of my local hostelries: from the Potter's Heron (bottom-right) to the Bear & Ragged Staff (top-left)

A downloaded track would work just as well.

Right-clicking on the track (or the cyan box top-right) gives an option to Create Route which produces this


Right-clicking on the routepoints gives you their name & comment fields (both of which are editable).  The name field includes a sequential number, two are shown as examples below:


In this particular example the routepoints numbered 4, 5, and 6 are redundant and can be deleted.
Right-clicking on the route (or the magenta box top-right) provides an option to Renumber the points after deleting the redundant ones, adding any it hasn't noticed, etc
Lower down the list is an option to export as CSV
which (in Excel) looks like this - and can easily be compared with the routesheet instructions.

[andyoxon]

There is a (not perfect - but much quicker) alternative to doing it in Mapsource.

GPXeditor has a utility to turn a track into a route, labelling each routepoint in something approaching audaxese as it goes.
...

That looks pretty good - have been having a bit of a play.     Be interesting to see how well osm on gpxeditor, and osm Talkytoaster 'variation' on etrex unit work together.

[frankly frankie]

Also realised that unchecking 'avoid unpaved roads' is necessary for any off roady bits...   

... in which case you have to remember to do the same in your GPS.

Actually it is possible (both in Mapsource and the GPS) to force the routing along an unpaved road (provided it is mapped of course), even with 'avoid' checked - just by throwing enough points at it, for that section.

[Ningishzidda]

On the inverse,
I created two ‘Favourites’ of your hostelries and asked for a route starting at one and ending at the other. TomTom plotted a route along the same roads as the GPX.

For a section of Audax like this, if the Potter’s Heron was a Control and the Bear and Ragged Staff was an Info, I would simply ask to go to the Bear and Ragged Staff favourite and ignore creating a GPX or Itinerary.

On the Staffs Lanes in two week’s time, the first control and first Info are 12 km apart. Exactly as I describe happens. The TT route agrees with the Routesheet so I don’t bother with a GPX or Itinerary for this. From the second Info at Abbots Bromley to Rosliston Forest Centre ( 40 km ) does the same. No GPX for this section.

Its difficult for me to get an image of the TomTom screen onto the forum sat in the company restaurant, so you’ll have to trust me on this one.

[Somnolent]

There is a (not perfect - but much quicker) alternative to doing it in Mapsource.

GPXeditor has a utility to turn a track into a route, labelling each routepoint in something approaching audaxese as it goes.
...

That looks pretty good - have been having a bit of a play.     Be interesting to see how well osm on gpxeditor, and osm Talkytoaster 'variation' on etrex unit work together.

If you use that method to put a routepoint on every routesheet instruction then any differences in the mapping or the routing algorithm should become irrelevant, because you should have constrained the routing sufficiently.
Better still use the etrex in Direct (off-road) mode.  Just don't let it think for itself.
Simply name the routepoints appropriately so that as you approach each one your unit is giving you the instruction you decided on when you were in front of your computer.

I'm a big fan of osm - but by its very nature it is "not to be 100% relied upon" so I will not allow my gps to use it to decide which way I should be going.
I did try once....it was convinced I should turn off the perfectly good road I was on and cycle up a railway line.  Not the fault of the gps or the routing algorithm, somehow the railway line was "tagged" in OSM as being useable by road vehicles.

 

[Somnolent]

On the inverse,
I created two ‘Favourites’ of your hostelries and asked for a route starting at one and ending at the other. TomTom plotted a route along the same roads as the GPX.

For a section of Audax like this, if the Potter’s Heron was a Control and the Bear and Ragged Staff was an Info, I would simply ask to go to the Bear and Ragged Staff favourite and ignore creating a GPX or Itinerary.

On the Staffs Lanes in two week’s time, the first control and first Info are 12 km apart. Exactly as I describe happens. The TT route agrees with the Routesheet so I don’t bother with a GPX or Itinerary for this. From the second Info at Abbots Bromley to Rosliston Forest Centre ( 40 km ) does the same. No GPX for this section.

Its difficult for me to get an image of the TomTom screen onto the forum sat in the company restaurant, so you’ll have to trust me on this one.

Oh I trust you 
I would use exactly the same methodology if I was using OSMand on an Android phone or tablet.
But your TomTom is what I'd call SatNav (and so, in effect, is my Android phone running OSMand)
The OP's Vista HCx is not IMHO the same kind of beastie at all.

I'm really pleased that your TomTom works for you on the bike, but I'm not sure I see the relevance to this thread.

[andyoxon]

What's the best way to create a direct OR Route or auto-Route on a track which doubles back along the same roads for a while?

edit.  ah, split the route into two sections should work

[Ningishzidda]

What's the best way to create a direct OR Route or auto-Route on a track which doubles back along the same roads for a while?

edit.  ah, split the route into two sections should work

Use a device that has ‘Itinerary’ logic, not ‘Nearest point on the track’ logic.

[andyoxon]

What's the best way to create a direct OR Route or auto-Route on a track which doubles back along the same roads for a while?

edit.  ah, split the route into two sections should work

Use a device that has ‘Itinerary’ logic, not ‘Nearest point on the track’ logic.

Like some models of TomTom?   

[frankly frankie]

The thing is that cyclists, who generally do day rides from home or some car park, have hi-jacked the word 'route' to their own special interpretation, which is, a circular or out-and-back that arrives back where it started.
Most dictionaries will define a route as a way of getting from one place to another.  Garmins (except Edges) make that assumption too - that you are trying to get somewhere.

[Ningishzidda]

Personally, I don't give one iter itineris.

 

[andyoxon]

For yesterday's audax I decided on using a coloured track, and follow-road auto routing, with a yellow/'invisible' route, split into A&B - to and from the half way control (waypoints mid way on roads rather than at junctions). 

It worked fine with 'isolated junctions', but in towns or on trails, the turn by turn instructions which linger on screen for a while, were difficult to decipher/confusing.  As a result I made one or two wrong turns (e.g. in Ramsbury), but was alerted by a beep and "recalculate?"  Not sure if this is something others find; one thing I didn't try was pressing the back button to see if this goes back to the track.

As part of the process off working out what I prefer, next time may try following the track, and direct off-road routing with minimal waypoints linked with visible route.