Author Topic: Cycling in the olympic VIP lanes  (Read 27377 times)

Charlotte

  • Dissolute libertine
  • Here's to ol' D.H. Lawrence...
    • charlottebarnes.co.uk
Cycling in the olympic VIP lanes
« on: 10 July, 2012, 03:05:03 pm »
According to getaheadofthegames.com:

Quote
Cyclists are prohibited from using Games Lanes, however, as 95% of these lanes are offside and will be busy with Games Family traffic, they are not ideally located for cyclist use.

But interestingly, according to cityoflondon.gov.uk:

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Q: Can cyclists use the Games Lanes?
A: The ORN/PRN design allows cyclists to enter the majority of Games Lanes where they are on the nearside, as this is seen as the normal cycling position on the road. Cyclists will not be allowed to enter the offside Games Lanes for safety reasons or to make other movements that would be deemed unsafe.

Still, I don't fancy arguing it out with some olympic fines enforcement droid at the side of the road - losing would be a bit expensive

I bet Critical Mass will be amusing on the 27th, though  :demon:
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Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Cycling in the olympic VIP lanes
« Reply #1 on: 10 July, 2012, 03:09:27 pm »
I'd have thought the Zils and droids wouldn't want to argue it out with you.  ;D
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Wowbagger

  • Stout dipper
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: Cycling in the olympic VIP lanes
« Reply #2 on: 10 July, 2012, 03:10:07 pm »
I'd come to that CM were it not for the fact that we are off to Wales on the morrow.

At least the train companies we are using are not doing Bloody Stupid Things like Southern Rail are so we will be taking bicycles with us.
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

Julian

  • samoture
Re: Cycling in the olympic VIP lanes
« Reply #3 on: 10 July, 2012, 03:28:04 pm »
What is a Zil?

Re: Cycling in the olympic VIP lanes
« Reply #4 on: 10 July, 2012, 03:30:15 pm »
USSR era Limo as used by the Communist party comittee members.

mcshroom

  • Mushroom
Re: Cycling in the olympic VIP lanes
« Reply #5 on: 10 July, 2012, 03:32:02 pm »
Quote
Zavod imeni Likhachova, more commonly called ZIL is a major Russian truck and heavy equipment manufacturer, which also produced armored cars for most Soviet leaders

I'd guess they are equating the 'Games Family' with the Soviet Politburo. I can see the similarities

[edit] cross post with matthew[/edit]
Climbs like a sprinter, sprints like a climber!

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Cycling in the olympic VIP lanes
« Reply #6 on: 10 July, 2012, 03:34:44 pm »
Chatterati have termed Olympic lanes Zil lanes for past two months.

Re: Cycling in the olympic VIP lanes
« Reply #7 on: 10 July, 2012, 04:48:09 pm »
Interestingly, looking at this ORN document, which I dug out after the discussion about Euston Road over here, some of the Olympic Lanes, which are on the left (if that diagram is reasonably representative), do allow cyclists to use them.

Actually, it is rocket science.
 

Psychler

  • Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr........
  • 33.2 miles from Steeple Bumpstead
Re: Cycling in the olympic VIP lanes
« Reply #8 on: 10 July, 2012, 05:05:44 pm »
As a generalisation - the near-side Olympic Lanes allow cyclists, offside ones don't.

Speed bumps are being removed from the Olympic Lanes to be replaced afterwards. Watch out for BMWs being driven at 60mph through London streets
I'm gonna limp to the pub and drink 'til the rest of me is as numb as my arse.

Re: Cycling in the olympic VIP lanes
« Reply #9 on: 10 July, 2012, 05:14:54 pm »
I'm getting more and more confused by these Zil lanes and associated closures.  The vital pedestrian crossing outside our office on Kingsway is closed, which I think means more than just switching off the little green man.  The street alongside our office is closed except to cyclists (hurrah!) but people are merrily turning into it in big trucks as per usual.  Colleagues are finding out that their suburban trains are not stopping at their suburban stations.  Am I allowed to pull a U-turn through the plastic bollards that separate the Zil lane from mortal traffic?   I'm beginning to feel a bit grumpy about the limpics.

spindrift

Re: Cycling in the olympic VIP lanes
« Reply #10 on: 10 July, 2012, 05:19:26 pm »
Quote
Garrett Emmerson, Chief Operating Officer Surface Transport, TfL, said:

"In conditions of slow moving traffic, we encourage cyclists to avoid putting themselves in danger by staying safe and staying back."


WTF?


Re: Cycling in the olympic VIP lanes
« Reply #11 on: 10 July, 2012, 05:22:39 pm »
As a generalisation - the near-side Olympic Lanes allow cyclists, offside ones don't.

The early pages included something along the lines of "you wouldn't want to cycle in the offside games lanes because that would be a stupid part of the road to cycle on, you should be in the gutter on the inside of lorries..." I paraphrase, but it wasn't far off.

Later they amended this to say you'll be fined £200 for cycling in them, and there will be actual people enforcing as well as ANPR...

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Speed bumps are being removed from the Olympic Lanes to be replaced afterwards. Watch out for BMWs being driven at 60mph through London streets

You're not joking - they have blacked over the 30 roundels painted on the road within the games lanes, so clearly they're going to raise the speed limit in the lanes. This sounds rather stupid, esp given the number of extra peds + cyclists there will be cos they can't get on the tube and the buses are stationary.
Quote from: tiermat
that's not science, it's semantics.

simonp

Re: Cycling in the olympic VIP lanes
« Reply #12 on: 10 July, 2012, 05:24:30 pm »
Quote
Garrett Emmerson, Chief Operating Officer Surface Transport, TfL, said:

"In conditions of slow moving traffic, we encourage cyclists to avoid putting themselves in danger by staying safe and staying back."


WTF?

He means don't lane-split to save a few seconds and put yourself at increased danger caused by filtering between lanes - simply wait in traffic. It's what I often do, I think I might have just caught my train from King's Cross if I'd been filtering to the front all the time.

spindrift

Re: Cycling in the olympic VIP lanes
« Reply #13 on: 10 July, 2012, 05:27:28 pm »
If I didn't overtake slow moving traffic it would take me an hour to get home, instead of twenty minutes. I can filter perfectly safely.

simonp

Re: Cycling in the olympic VIP lanes
« Reply #14 on: 10 July, 2012, 05:37:15 pm »
If I didn't overtake slow moving traffic it would take me an hour to get home, instead of twenty minutes. I can filter perfectly safely.

Paddington -> King's Cross this morning, leaving Paddington at approx 08.58, arrived KX at approx. 09.15, moving time 11 minutes, stopped for 6. Filtered once, but not to the front of the queue. It's the bus lanes that make that feasible, since they're mostly empty.



Re: Cycling in the olympic VIP lanes
« Reply #15 on: 10 July, 2012, 06:52:51 pm »
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According to the TfL Games Lane information line, those who are unable to pay the fine may have their bicycle impounded.

Seriously? When did this become the legal way of imposing fines in this country? If you're not carrying £130 in cash, they take your possessions?
Quote from: tiermat
that's not science, it's semantics.

spindrift

Re: Cycling in the olympic VIP lanes
« Reply #16 on: 10 July, 2012, 06:59:22 pm »
If I didn't overtake slow moving traffic it would take me an hour to get home, instead of twenty minutes. I can filter perfectly safely.

Paddington -> King's Cross this morning, leaving Paddington at approx 08.58, arrived KX at approx. 09.15, moving time 11 minutes, stopped for 6. Filtered once, but not to the front of the queue. It's the bus lanes that make that feasible, since they're mostly empty.

Ok.

 I wouldn't remain in traffic travelling slower than around 15 mph on a clear flat. Probably safer to filter, less bunching.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Cycling in the olympic VIP lanes
« Reply #17 on: 10 July, 2012, 07:15:17 pm »
Chatterati have termed Olympic lanes Zil lanes for past two months.
Ahem.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Cycling in the olympic VIP lanes
« Reply #18 on: 10 July, 2012, 08:29:08 pm »
Quote
According to the TfL Games Lane information line, those who are unable to pay the fine may have their bicycle impounded.

Seriously? When did this become the legal way of imposing fines in this country? If you're not carrying £130 in cash, they take your possessions?

I would like to see them try! Just stay on your bike and stand your ground.  These fines sound like "Penalty Charge Notices".  Penalty Charge Notices are civil matters, police can't issue them, only civil enforcement officers who have no powers to direct cycle traffic.  Also, Penalty Charge Notices are issued to a registered keeper, and pedal cycles don't have registered keepers.  They might be able to do it with Boris Bikes, but that's about it.  IMO if/when they start telling me (just as well that I don't live in London) or anyone else for that matter how to cycle, they cease to be human (or if they are, are worse than nazis) and become like a real life version of something from Doctor Who... that's one-eyed and lives in a pepper pot life support case... or has a skin of metal and handlebars on their head...


Re: Cycling in the olympic VIP lanes
« Reply #19 on: 10 July, 2012, 08:59:20 pm »
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Later they amended this to say you'll be fined £200 for cycling in them, and there will be actual people enforcing as well as ANPR...

ANPR? How will that work with bikes?  ???

Re: Cycling in the olympic VIP lanes
« Reply #20 on: 10 July, 2012, 10:55:15 pm »
Quote
Later they amended this to say you'll be fined £200 for cycling in them, and there will be actual people enforcing as well as ANPR...

ANPR? How will that work with bikes?  ???

Assuming you mean pedal cycles, it won't.  They might just have managed to pull it off with liebour's ID card system if they had been able to use it for a pedal cycle registration system.  That's one of the many, myriad, reasons, (actually a minor one), that I voted for an anti-ID party (now part of the coalition) at the last election.

Re: Cycling in the olympic VIP lanes
« Reply #21 on: 10 July, 2012, 11:25:13 pm »
ANPR may not work that well even with P2Ws, since that's one of the reasons why they don't have to pay the Congestion Charge, since it's too difficult to reliably read their plates.

(I'm not sure what the problem is, other than that motorcycles don't have to have a front plate, so the cameras would have to image the back of the vehicle rather than the front, which doesn't seem to be that onerous an undertaking).
Actually, it is rocket science.
 

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Cycling in the olympic VIP lanes
« Reply #22 on: 10 July, 2012, 11:28:58 pm »
The letters and numbers on motorcycle plates are slightly smaller, but I doubt if that's the problem. Maybe it's because they're laid out in two lines, perhaps that means the cameras can't read them somehow? Seems odd though.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Cycling in the olympic VIP lanes
« Reply #23 on: 10 July, 2012, 11:48:29 pm »
Older motorcycle plates can be laid out in three lines, but there's no sane reason why that would be any more difficult to ANPR than the single line of most car plates.

My guess is that whoever planned it, went with cameras looking at the front of vehicles, and it didn't occur to them that this wouldn't work with motorcycles.  Alternatively, this orientation could be deliberate, since it allows some degree of imaging of the driver, which may be useful in cases where identifying the driver may be necessary (although I'd presume that's primarily the responsibility of the vehicles registered keeper).

Either way, it's not a problem for cyclists, although the implication is that they'd have to be physically stopped, and that the only people who could legally do this, are police officers, who don't have the authority to impose FPNs (although presumably you could have police officers working in conjunction with others).

It seems unlikely that cyclists are going to be caught by these fines, since most of the time it's likely that they wouldn't be in the lanes, and when they are, it's going to be difficult to identify them.  Conceivably someone could chase down cyclists (even a Police cyclist!), but that seems like a relatively low probability event.
Actually, it is rocket science.
 

Re: Cycling in the olympic VIP lanes
« Reply #24 on: 11 July, 2012, 02:07:39 am »
Here's the beeb's description of the games lanes here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16277688

Be warned, this advice may not apply to Boris bikes.

Penalty charge notices are civil,
  • can only be issued by civil enforcement officers (local authority/TfL)
  • therefore cannot be issued by the police
  • need a vehicle registration number

Basically, they are designed to be issued in respect of motor vehicles.

If a civil enforcement officer attemtpts to stop you, try to ride round etc.  If that is not possible, do not tell them anything* and find an alternative way out.Always stay on your bicycle.

* except calling them names, just the usual ones that you use when someone criticises your cycling - but only if you genuinely feel that is appropriate  - or some other appropriate insult/snarky comment.

As a minor aside, do the police ever enforce restrictions on cycles in bus lanes when they shouldn't be there?