Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => GPS => Topic started by: aidan.f on 30 May, 2021, 02:51:11 pm
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A friend has asked me about my GPS (ETREX-30x) with a view to buying one. I am very aware that advice would just be my opinion there could be other devices about that much better suit her needs
in forum-speak 'YMMV'
I'm going to post a good points and bad points summary below. If others can please add their particular device experience then we could have a summary rather than 10 pages of (very informative) posts on the Wahoo Bolt
For example
- Device: Etrex 30x Owned for three years. I guess nearest equivalent current model 32x £219
- Pros
- Cons
- My usual usage mode
- Learning curve
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- Device: Etrex 30x Owned for three years. I guess nearest equivalent current model 32x £219- hiking GPS with handlebar mount
- My usage: 95% preplanned uploaded routes with https://simple-gpx.herokuapp.com/ (https://simple-gpx.herokuapp.com/) waypoint alarms - from day rides to 1400Km Audax
often in battery save mode - Pros: Long battery life ~18 hours using AA Ni-Mh with sensible backlight levels. Even longer in battery save mode - IIRC 50+ hours. Easily extended with spare batteries.
'Just works' least likely of all GPS units to randomly turn off delete/truncate/redirect. 100% waterproof. Use with gloves in the rain. Lots of memory with internal SD card (I suspect you could load a world tour onto it. Auto routing - used by me occasionally - Cons: Heavy, 190g with Ni/Mh batteries. Low handlebar bling appeal. Small screen (good for battery life) Old fashioned, PC-micro USB and dropping files into folders. Can use a mobile and USB OTG lead but I never have
No distance to way point, No off course alarms (a shame). GPX files so no heart rate cadence n'stuff. Joystick button can be difficult to use when riding. Lots of 'are you sures' and sub menus /li]
- Learning curve: I used a good ETREX guide by frankly frankie OTP ATM I cannot relocate. Installed Openstreetmaps http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl/ (http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl/)
How to set up way point alarms using https://simple-gpx.herokuapp.com/ (https://simple-gpx.herokuapp.com/) - General: Lots of support on this forum and www. Etrex range 10-20-30 cover basic follow the blue line up maps n'stuff plus touch screen versions . No idea if this is an improvement , maybe for some - not for my MO
General etrex summary well put by Kim:
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=97721.msg2033389#msg2033389 (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=97721.msg2033389#msg2033389)
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Etrex 30x can do heart rate and it’s in the exported GPX
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Device: Etrex 32x Owned for one year. Previously had the 30x for ~4 yrs but lost it.
Pros :
Garmin hardware is very robust. 30x came off my handlebars on a 40mph descent (my fault, hadn't clipped it on properly) was barely scratched and still worked as expected.
Cons :
Garmin software is incredibly flakey. I've used them for hillwalking since the first Gecko came out and I'm still surprised by unexpected behaviour from the software. It will freeze. It will turn itself off.
My usual usage mode :
I use OS maps for hillwalking and I usually create routes in Basecamp or import a gpx file from hillwalking/mountaineering sites. For riding routes I use RidewithGps. I've learned over the years to always, always import the route into Basecamp and do a visual check that it looks like I expect it to look.
Learning curve :
Still learning. My experience with Garmin hasn't been a happy one. I've invested a lot of time learning to use their stuff and if someone told me there was a reliable, easy to use system out there I'd switch in a heartbeat.
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Garmin Edge 530.
Pro:
Battery life 12+hours
All the training bells and whistles
WiFi connection, auto upload
Cons:
Learning curve
It also has internal battery. I prefer this but appreciate others prefer AAs.
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iPhone 11 Pro
Price: no longer sold - iPhone 12 mini is cheapest OLED for £699. Or free if you already own something similar.
Pros:
13 hour screen-on battery life in white-on-black mode on OLED models
Huge high resolution screen
Waterproof (iPhone 7 onwards)
Qi wireless charging means you can charge safely in wet
Infinite choice of software
Infinite connectivity
Compatible with all Bluetooth sensors
Built-in camera
Built-in smartphone
Cons:
Price
Battery life on some models
Touchscreen mostly unusable in heavy rain
My usual usage mode:
App what I wrote, BikeGPX
Learning curve:
Depends entirely what software you go for
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I think the eTrex has been well covered, but I'm still using my eTrex30. Generally quite pleased with the hardware - they finally solved the rubber band problem that plagues earlier eTrexen of a similar age. The weak points are the SD card retaining flap, which can be inadvertently loosened while changing batteries, and the mini-USB connector, which is something that should have died out at least two generations ago[1].
I'm sufficiently fluent in the foibles of its software that I no longer have to think about it.
The features I'd like that it conspicuously lacks are:
- Edge-style start/stop for racing. But only when I'm racing. That forgetting-to-start-the-ride rubbish can get to fuck the rest of the time.
- Compatibility with more ANT+ sensors, specifically the discrete speed/cadence sensors I use on The Red Baron. I believe it can read cadence (but only cadence) from a combined speed/cadence sensor, but I don't have one. It's fine for heart rate and temperature.
- Clearer turn instructions, like the HCx series.
- The ability to have it write a copy of what it's logging to the SD card that's almost impossible to accidentally delete/corrupt like the HCx series.
- "Clear tracklog/reset trip counters" not being right next to "Factory reset" (or whatever they're called) in the menu.
At some point it will die and I'll have to consider what I replace it with. While WiFi sounds appealing (assuming it can just drop a file on
a samba share or something similarly sensible) I'm extremely reluctant about anything with a binary log file format (corrupt GPX files often being recoverable with diligent use of a text editor), and that won't speak USB-storage or similar. Internal batteries aren't the deal-breaker they were with older Edge devices. While I'm happy to use a phone for referring to OS maps, I don't really want to use it on-bike, not least because touchscreens are wank.
[1] That said, the eTrex use-case matches that which mini-USB was designed for: Exchanging data with your PC in the warm, dry vibration-free comfort of your home. Where it's really poor is the devices which can require regular charging or worse external power in use.
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...At some point it will die and I'll have to consider what I replace it with...
That's why I bought a second hand one from the classifieds section of this very forum.
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Etrex weak point is the SD card retaining flap, which can be inadvertently loosened while changing batteries,
Easily cured with a small piece of insulation tape - though I rarely remove my SD card
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Previously:
Garmin Edge 705 (three of them, first two both had USB ports die, the third conked out after seven or eight years of hard use)
Pro and con:
Rechargeable battery. Decent life if you are sensible with backlight and so on (12 hours or so following a track), and can be topped up on the go, happily runs off a USB source with enough juice. Can be replaced without too much bother. But not as handy for replacement as AAs, battery life not a match for eTrex series.
Pros:
Decent screen.
Can do turn-by-turn from GPX tracks. No ifs, buts or maybes. Load it, and you get a nice clear line, forthcoming directions available for preview, clear instructions (mostly) given and there's always the map to fall back on. Successfully used for over 300km…
Easy (ish) to setup.
Syncing with Garmin Connect.
Cons:
Slow, slow, slow to load and setup navigation. Best option I found to load the night before or on the train to the ride (etc), as 100+ milers could take five or ten minutes to load, if you're not recording at the same time.
Water resistance…hmmm. Joystick seems to be a weak point of the waterproofing. The Wetstable FNRttC of 2012 caused it to require repair.
Buttons can and do perish- ended up having to patch up those on my last one.
Absolutely no way of getting data off in the event of malfunction or the USB port breaking. SD card slot is for maps only, no way of changing that.
USB port flap and SD card cover both awkward and at risk of getting lost. Resorted to using tape on mine.
Directions suffered frequent outbreaks of Garminese. 'Make a U-turn' to my mind means 180 degree turns and returning the way you came, not (for example) using a footbridge to cross a major road.
Mounts are problematic, the release tabs kept breaking on mine (lost count of how many I replaced) and I had the Edge go flying three or four times.
Currently:
Garmin eTrex 30x
Pros:
Excellent battery life from AAs, 25 hours plus.
Good screen, better than the Edge.
Decent performance, much faster than the Edge to load tracks and generally nippier in use.
Excellent build quality. USB flap is a robust-looking part of the case, and battery cover is easy to remove and fit but again robust. The SD card is well protected under the AAs. It hasn't been rained on that much just yet but not anticipating problems.
I'd like the option of a start/stop button, but at least you never forget to start recording.
Mount is simple and and appears tough. No release tab to break off. Lanyard as a backup.
Cons:
Turn-by-turn. FFS, Garmin. Why can't I just load a track and follow it like on an Edge? I've tried various methods of setting directions up, and keep ending up with no directions (or they just stop), maps so cluttered with 'help' like waypoints that I can't see the actual track…it's exasperating. I just want either directions that actually work ('beep' and a prompt to turn left in 200ft) or an uncluttered pink line I can just follow. Do the project teams at Garmin not talk to each other?
Inability to use Garmin Connect (etc) to sync automatically. There's a new track. Upload it. Shouldn't be hard. Connect can update software, nothing more.
Track recordings in one folder with tracks you might want to follow, not in a history folder. So when you want to go somewhere, scroll through all your saved rides…
I'll persevere with it, but these annoyances just shouldn't be there.
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I don't really grok the obsession with turn by turn.
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I don't really grok the obsession with turn by turn.
For me the advantages are that it wakes you up when you're not paying attention, and is easier to see the turn arrows than a line on the map. There's also the benefit of the backlight coming on without you having to lean forward out of the seat to reach a button.
The only way to make it work on an eTrex is to either let it navigate directly to a point, or to lovingly craft the Route in Basecamp using exactly the same map as on the eTrex.
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I don't really grok the obsession with turn by turn.
Wouldn't say obsession- at least in my case- but it is very handy when riding somewhere new, or somewhere you go infrequently, particularly on longer distances when a missed turn can be very awkward. Most of the time I use it as an aide memoire…Certainly a track without TBT will do that job just as well, just check the map instead of waiting for a beep…
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No distance to way point,
Unless I'm misunderstanding, the active route menu does this, as it shows distance to all the high points, low points, waypoints and end of track. And not as the crow flies but along the actual track.
Apologies if I've misunderstood.
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Thanks for the memory jog.
will try that
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I don't really grok the obsession with turn by turn.
Well I’d just like the etrex 30x to have the ability to navigate somewhere if I need to abandon a pre planned ride. It might be as simple as “take me to nearest railway station” This is the major missing bit. Etrex are great for pre planned. On the fly decisions out and about? Forget it.
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I don't really grok the obsession with turn by turn.
Well I’d just like the etrex 30x to have the ability to navigate somewhere if I need to abandon a pre planned ride. It might be as simple as “take me to nearest railway station” This is the major missing bit.
That's not missing. Indeed, that's all the eTrex's auto-routing is any good for.
It'll caclulate a route from where you are to a given location just fine. What it can't do properly is follow a pre-planned route (at least, not without a decent amount of work in Basecamp to create a Route consisting of routepoints that exist on the map it's navigating with, and even then it sometimes goes astray because Basecamp's algorithm doesn't match the device's).
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Garmin Edge 530.
Pros:
Gets a fix before leaving home much faster than my old Leznye.
Little map and “turn left in 150m High St” at the top. Which is easier in towns than just a map.
Good battery life and USB charging for when I’m away more than a day.
Cons: if my route is incompatible with reality I get my phone out to replan. The map isn’t working for me as a planning tool.
Usage mode: plan a route on Komoot, and sync to the edge before I go out. I use the distance and time display too.
Learning curve: I still regularly press a different button than the one I need. But most of what I want to see got set up the day I bought it.
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Well thanks, plenty of stuff on eTrex. I suspect because many use them. Couple of happy edge 530 users. Where are all the Wahoo users.. out riding their bikes?
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Quite. I like the idea of the Wahoo's mono screen. My colour vision is sufficiently poor that I'd happily trade the marginally-useful colour for better contrast. It seems very smartphone-oriented, though.
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HK has a variety of GPSs that she likes/ are reliable, including a Wahoo and Garmin (830 or 1030 perhaps?). There is a small pile of rejects, comprising Lezyne and Garmin.
I am firmly in the Etrex camp.
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I don't really grok the obsession with turn by turn.
Well I’d just like the etrex 30x to have the ability to navigate somewhere if I need to abandon a pre planned ride. It might be as simple as “take me to nearest railway station” This is the major missing bit.
That's not missing. Indeed, that's all the eTrex's auto-routing is any good for.
It'll caclulate a route from where you are to a given location just fine.
Clearly the mapping on your etrex 30x works better. The navigation function on mine is shit at it. It is far from fine.
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Well thanks, plenty of stuff on eTrex. I suspect because many use them. Couple of happy edge 530 users. Where are all the Wahoo users.. out riding their bikes?
Sometimes! I was going to reply sooner but I haven’t subjected my Elemnt to the extremes required for yacfers.
- Device: Wahoo Elemnt - the first version. Got it when they came out so it must be a few years old now.
- Pros
I can’t really fault it. I find it easy to work with for short trips - mainly in London - to parts unknown. Go to RidewithGPS. Make route. Switch thing on - it syncs. Choose route from list. Press start. Ride bike. It hasn’t put a foot wrong to the extent that I have used it (no tours, multi-part rides, or other complexities). When I’m not using the device to guide me, I use it as a glorified bike computer every day for the commute and it syncs these rides, somewhat pointlessly in my case, to Strava without intervention from me. Battery life seems adequate for my purposes and it recharges very quickly. Doesn’t leak. Stays attached to bike.
Well, the screen isn’t great. It’s good for visibility in bright sunlight, I must admit, and it’s very easily configurable via the app to make the info you need legible. The map is adequate, certainly for urban / suburban stuff. Out in the boonies, colour might be more helpful. The beeps are not loud enough, for anyone never mind someone with hearing loss. Would be great to able to adjust this.
As above
None, compared to Garmin and Mapsource etc. Download app, pair it up, go.
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SP thank you, message spot on topic.
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Recently upgraded from a garmin 810 to a 530 and the wife has upgraded from a 520 to a 530 shortly after a got mine.
Pros
Excellent battery life we did a 400 last weekend and they both had over 20 % left
All the features you could ever need and lots you probably don’t .
Decent value in my opinion.
Cons
Only I find it much harder to navigate the menus than the earlier 800/810 but I’m getting better
If the 830 is ever heavily discounted I would probably get one of those because It would be easier to use with the touch screen.
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Device: Garmin Edge Explore
Bought October 2020 to replace long-serving Edge 510 (destroyed by dog using it as a chew toy). £129 (Amazon Black Friday deal) - price was the main reason I opted for this over a Wahoo or Edge 530
Pros:
• Large, full colour screen - not as big as the 1030, but usefully bigger than the 510.
• Full mapping, turn warnings - the 510 had a colour screen but no maps, so navigation was by following a breadcrumb trail. I generally got on fine with this, but it could occasionally cause confusion at complicated junctions. It also meant that you had to have the map screen on display at all times, because there were no turn warnings.
• Power saver mode - the screen stays off until you're approaching a turn when it flashes up the map and beeps at you. This significantly prolongs battery life. I also like the fact that it means I can spend more time enjoying the scenery and less time checking the screen in case of missed turns. It also means I'm less inclined to just look at the screen when I don't need to, as there's nothing to see - although I can manually wake it if I really want to.
• Phone alerts - notifications of messages received. Mostly I ignore this but I keep the feature activated in case I receive any important messages that I might miss otherwise.
• Drink alerts - a user-programmable feature that I find quite useful. I do have a habit of forgetting to drink on long rides, so I've set it to give me a nudge to take a sip every 12km.
• Re-routing - gets you back on track if you go off route. Seems to be reasonably reliable but I've only used it for experimentation purposes, not through actual need.
• Bluetooth connectivity - I plan routes on my desktop and upload them to Garmin Connect. Then I can send them wirelessly to the Explore using the Garmin Connect app on my phone. At the end of the ride, the Explore immediately uploads the track to Garmin Connect (phone signal allowing), which then syncs automatically to Strava.
• Internal battery - YMMV on this one.
Cons
• No barometric altimeter - this is one feature the 510 had that I miss on the Explore.
• Screen glitch - sometimes the screen doesn't wake up. This usually rectifies itself with a bit of coaxing, but I did once lose part of a ride because it completely froze and I had to turn it off and on again to get the screen to wake up. Although it was able to resume recording from the point it left off, all the GPS trackpoints up to that point were wiped. Annoying. This is my main gripe with the device.
• Battery life could be an issue for audaxes. I could get round a 200 with plenty to spare on the 510, but I think it would be touch and go with the Explore. That said, I am in the habit of carrying a power bank for audaxes so should be able to top up if necessary.
• Course creator is a bit shit - purely for testing purposes, I asked it to plan a 40km round trip route starting from home, and it tried to send me along the main dual carriageway... Not sure I would trust this feature in an area I'm not familiar with, and I have no need to use it round local roads.
My usual usage mode
Mostly simple ride tracking, for the purposes of logging on Strava.
Also for following routes, mainly for the purposes of Veloviewer tilebagging, or audaxes, though I've not done any of those for a while.
Learning curve
Since I've not done a huge amount of cycling in the 8 months I've had it, there are features I've not really got to grips with yet - IQ apps being the main one. I have fairly basic needs, so have configured the data screens to suit my usage and that's pretty much it. Being a long-term Garmin user, I worked out how to do this without referring to the manual, but I don't know if it would be so intuitive for someone new to Garmins. But the menu system is fairly easy to navigate.
Can't think of anything else for now, but no doubt there's something I've forgotten to mention.
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Device: Etrex 32x Owned for one year. Previously had the 30x for ~4 yrs but lost it.
Learning curve :
Still learning. My experience with Garmin hasn't been a happy one. I've invested a lot of time learning to use their stuff and if someone told me there was a reliable, easy to use system out there I'd switch in a heartbeat.
Quick update on this post. I recently did a map update as prompted by Garmin Express. Result is I now have error messages whenever I turn on the device as follows, " Can't authentcate maps. Please contact your seller for support" and the following message when I connect to a computer, "Drive D is broken. Please scan to fix drive D" (or something close to that).
I've raised a ticket with Garmin, received an automated reply and three days later received an invitation to review my resolution experience. Nothing else, that's it from Garmin.
I contacted the supplier who said (and I quote), "I make a very good living from Garmin's unreliability". He advised me to never accept a map update from Garmin (where the hell am I supposed to get them from?).
Anyway, don't buy anything from Garmin.
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I don't really grok the obsession with turn by turn.
Well I’d just like the etrex 30x to have the ability to navigate somewhere if I need to abandon a pre planned ride. It might be as simple as “take me to nearest railway station” This is the major missing bit. Etrex are great for pre planned. On the fly decisions out and about? Forget it.
You can look at the map?
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I don't really grok the obsession with turn by turn.
Well I’d just like the etrex 30x to have the ability to navigate somewhere if I need to abandon a pre planned ride. It might be as simple as “take me to nearest railway station” This is the major missing bit. Etrex are great for pre planned. On the fly decisions out and about? Forget it.
You can look at the map?
Not zoomed out to be of use on such a small screen you can’t. GPS and their maps aren’t designed to work quite so well for overview.