Yet Another Cycling Forum

Off Topic => The Pub => The Sporting Life => Topic started by: CommuteTooFar on 02 February, 2022, 10:37:14 pm

Title: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: CommuteTooFar on 02 February, 2022, 10:37:14 pm
Early rounds of curling start overnight.
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Jaded on 02 February, 2022, 11:22:04 pm
A team won in the Mixed Doubles

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Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Hair_Today_Gone_Tomorrow on 03 February, 2022, 10:34:15 am
A team won in the Mixed Doubles

(click to show/hide)

give us a clue as to which of the Winter Olympic events the mixed doubles won in?

PS I thought the Winter Olympics hadn't started yet
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 03 February, 2022, 10:41:56 am
I've just seen a photo of a speed skater and was struck by their helmet-free head.
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Tim Hall on 03 February, 2022, 10:42:45 am
I've just seen a photo of a speed skater and was struck by their helmet-free head.
Did it hurt?
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 03 February, 2022, 10:52:36 am
I've just seen a photo of a speed skater and was struck by their helmet-free head.
Did it hurt?
Not as much as ice skate karate kick.
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Jaded on 03 February, 2022, 11:10:26 am
A team won in the Mixed Doubles

(click to show/hide)

give us a clue as to which of the Winter Olympic events the mixed doubles won in?

PS I thought the Winter Olympics hadn't started yet

Apologies - my post was in response to the post above, so I didn't put the sport in it...
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Mr Larrington on 03 February, 2022, 12:02:50 pm
I've just seen a photo of a speed skater and was struck by their helmet-free head.
Did it hurt?
Not as much as ice skate karate kick.

Should’ve been wearing a helmet then!

[“Oh, very meta!” – Ed.]
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 03 February, 2022, 12:19:52 pm
Karate on ice should absolutely be an Olympic sport. As should sumo on thin ice.
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: matthew on 03 February, 2022, 12:49:35 pm
A team won in the Mixed Doubles

(click to show/hide)

give us a clue as to which of the Winter Olympic events the mixed doubles won in?

PS I thought the Winter Olympics hadn't started yet

Apologies - my post was in response to the post above, so I didn't put the sport in it...

Also need to be clear that the curling starts with a round robin competition so no medals yet but for the Brits Scots  ;) to beat the Canadians is a good start.
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Kim on 03 February, 2022, 06:31:26 pm
Karate on ice should absolutely be an Olympic sport. As should sumo on thin ice.

Ob-thread: https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=7036.0

(Also it's companion https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=62048.0, to save people searching.)
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: cycleman on 04 February, 2022, 08:23:09 am
Kick boxing on ice.......anyone..... :demon:
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 04 February, 2022, 10:43:10 am
Snowball fights.

Competitors given set period in which to make their snowballs, no equipment or gloves allowed.

headshot - 3 points
body/legs - 2 points

Blocking with arms permitted.
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 04 February, 2022, 11:50:16 am
Snowball fights is a very versatile one, can be individual, pairs or teams, single-sex or mixed. Good idea MrC!

Artistic snowman building to follow up.
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Beardy on 13 February, 2022, 01:39:46 pm
I’m watching the mens curling with the British team seemingly showing the Danes how to play.

I’ve obviously watched it before, but the more I watch it the more I become aware of the nuances of the game there’s really quite a lot of strategy involved in the 8 stone game.
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Beardy on 13 February, 2022, 03:09:48 pm
Mono-bob. What? One;Eason in a two man bobsleigh which just looks wrong and that the brake person forgot to get on. As  a kit nerd, it seems to me there’s a missed opportunity to create something really high tech and a bit whacky instead of just using a two man bob. Very disappointing.

It’s the first time I’ve sat down and watched any of the Olympic coverage. Does it show 😁
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: rogerzilla on 13 February, 2022, 05:45:06 pm
Speed skaters wear helmets according to risk, so 1-on-1 races don't need them but 4-up or relay races do.  A bit like CTT's formerly enlightened attitude.

Looking forward to 4-person bob, especially when someone gets left behind.

https://youtu.be/2ArPdBrG98Y
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Ivo on 13 February, 2022, 10:27:44 pm
With the monobobs I do have the impression that one of the reasons is to create a pool of experienced female pilots, so when mixed 4 is introduced the excuse 'but there are no experienced female pilots' doesn't count.
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: rogerzilla on 14 February, 2022, 08:27:34 am
AIUI the main disincentive to mixed teams is that women are generally smaller and lighter.  You can make up the weight difference to the competition limit* with, er, weights but dead weight on the sled affects the handling worse than four heavy crew, and it's easier to push a light sled up to speed at the start.

*before there was a limit, 4-man bob teams were made up of the heaviest blokes they could find who could still squash into place
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: peterc on 14 February, 2022, 04:55:58 pm
Speed skaters wear helmets according to risk, so 1-on-1 races don't need them but 4-up or relay races do.  A bit like CTT's formerly enlightened attitude.

Risk and a lot of "we have always done it this way" dependent on which version. Given you mention relay racing you may have mixed the two disciplines (Long and Short track) but don't worry almost everyone does.

Short Track which has been PPE heavy (lids, shin guards and cut resistant suits and gloves) since it arrived, relatively recently, at the Olympics.

Long track has been around since the first winter Olympics and hasn't, they are only just coming in to comps with new events. Marathons (20 plus people starting together on the ice, first across the line wins) in the Netherlands (KNSB) were a no lids but Kevlar socks up until a few years ago.

As you say if you are running close to someone else ISU requires Short Track levels of PPE in both Short and Long track, but the Team sprint, pursuit and mass start and new to Long Track so the ISU can make these changes without too many questions.

In long track training, which is frequently in a pace line, despite it being a mostly individual sport, lids are uncommon for skaters at top or even medium level. Kids under about 10 use them more often, but they will loose them for individual comps.

Basically they are coming in to long track, but it is very early days at the moment. In short track they are totally normal and have been since I have known the sport.

Feel free to shift this to lift the lid if needs be.
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Ivo on 14 February, 2022, 09:12:25 pm
When I started marathon speedskating back in the mid 90-ies, we weren't even wearing cut proof shinprotectors or cut proof gloves, resulting in occasional nasty cuts during mass crashes. About 10 years ago I stopped racing, shinprotectors were normal then, cut proof gloves fairly normal. Helmets only startet to be used in the last few years, long after I stopped.
Marathons have a higer risk, especially at lower categories, as you often race with two classes at the same time (one outer, one inner lane) and the protection at the non international level tracks can be a lot lower. I've seen (and felt) riders being launched over the boarding during mass crashes. Although I never raced with lids, I can understand the need for them in marathon speedskating.
Long track crashes are a lot less nasty as they usually only have 1 rider involved and you mostly tend to fall on your hip since you slide outwards in a corner.
Biggest risk in my experience was during training as the boarding often didn't use to be at top level. Even worse were the 'free hours' where you had people riding around having no clue about the traffic rules on the ice.

On a more audax note, back in the days, being juste a club skater with a mediocre technique I still managed decent results on regional level on the 10k. People were surpised that I broke the 'rules' regarding build up of a 10k race, going nearly flat out for 25 laps. They were also surpised to hear that I would participate in long audaxes during summer but never seemed to grasp the correlation between both. The new olympic 10k champion Niels van der Poel (Sweden) followed the same reasoning as I did but combined this with some serious technique and speed. Finally a 10k racer who really trains in summer!
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: rogerzilla on 14 February, 2022, 09:47:16 pm
That's really interesting, peterc.  FWIW, ice hockey helmets are primarily there to prevent penetration by the puck, sticks, other players' skates, etc, and not to prevent against concussion - at least, that's what it says in the bumf with Miss Z's Bauer helmet.

If I lived in the right country, I'd really like to try bobsleigh.  I am pretty good at drunken tobogganning, anyway.  Miss Z and I once managed the "black run" in the village after a long Sunday dinner and a bottle of wine.  No dabs, no extra pushes, right from the top of the village to the bottom including a winding footpath only as wide as the sledge, with a drop to a muddy bog on one side.  In the dark  ;D
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: peterc on 15 February, 2022, 12:05:04 am
The new olympic 10k champion Niels van der Poel (Sweden) followed the same reasoning as I did but combined this with some serious technique and speed. Finally a 10k racer who really trains in summer!

Hi Ivo, great to hear of another (proper) speed skater on here, the Fen Lads would be happy to hear of another marathon skater.

Niels has just published a long PDF on his training if you are interested. https://howtoskate.se (https://howtoskate.se)
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: peterc on 15 February, 2022, 12:13:24 am
If I lived in the right country, I'd really like to try bobsleigh.
I like hockey lids as they seem to last more than one hit, speed skating lids are basically standard cycling fair with the air holes filled in to slow blade ingress. ("Road aero" before that was a thing)

I saw my first bob run in Innsbruk, there was a World Cup round while I was there for a long track race, I was amazed how rough the ice looked and how brutal the ride looked. Since listening to a few Bob/Skeleton podcasts and a Vox youtube I think I'm glad I'm in the comparative safety of speed skating, it turns out there is a condition called Sled Head (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iaj5966HV4) made up of micro concussions that may Not Be A Good Thing™
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Ivo on 15 February, 2022, 08:32:38 am
The new olympic 10k champion Niels van der Poel (Sweden) followed the same reasoning as I did but combined this with some serious technique and speed. Finally a 10k racer who really trains in summer!

Hi Ivo, great to hear of another (proper) speed skater on here, the Fen Lads would be happy to hear of another marathon skater.

Niels has just published a long PDF on his training if you are interested. https://howtoskate.se (https://howtoskate.se)

Well, my racing days are long since over, I quit racing some 10 years ago.
I used to be more of a 10k specialist dabbling in the occasional 24hour race. With 16h07 I had a respectable time in 2004 but some 3 minutes slower than the top riders of that era. Riding in the Netherlands gave a lot of opportunities but also a huge amount of competition.
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: rogerzilla on 15 February, 2022, 07:12:45 pm
I find freestyle skiing and pretty much all snowboarding a bit silly, with points for showing off.  I prefer the racing or timed events.  Ski cross is good fun, though: a bit like BMX racing.
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Beardy on 15 February, 2022, 07:20:27 pm
I agree Rog, if it needs to be judged to award points, it’s not really sport. I note in the paper this morning there was an article about how the slope style folk are up in arms about the judging, saying it’s illogical and inconsistent with the camera work being crap and no playback being available to the judges.

I mean, curling is a bit daft, but it is at least an actually completion.
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Jaded on 15 February, 2022, 08:00:30 pm
Curling daft?!?

It is the most sensible sport there!
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 15 February, 2022, 08:06:19 pm
Nah, that's the set and blow dry.
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Mr Larrington on 15 February, 2022, 10:47:06 pm
Curling is just bowls made complicated.  Imagine bowls where your team-mates were allowed to attack the green with lawnmowers?  No, because that would be silly.
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: spesh on 15 February, 2022, 11:34:19 pm
Curling is just bowls made complicated.  Imagine bowls where your team-mates were allowed to attack the green with lawnmowers?  No, because that would be silly.
 

Not as silly as petanque with plate compactors. ;D
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: rogerzilla on 16 February, 2022, 07:26:08 am
Or archery with big fans.
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: andyoxon on 16 February, 2022, 05:36:55 pm
At least there's a power station next door to help with artificially generating all that snow....
https://twitter.com/BullandBaird/status/1490851374078251009?s=20&t=ldwL_ppG8qRs5RtpR8Mm5Q
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Legs on 17 February, 2022, 02:01:02 pm
Well, that's resolved one potentially tricky situation in the figure skating...
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Jaded on 17 February, 2022, 02:19:39 pm
BBC quote:

"One of the most uncomfortable, unpleasant periods of sport you will see."
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Jaded on 17 February, 2022, 04:12:27 pm
Hooray for
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Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Wowbagger on 18 February, 2022, 09:59:44 am
Hooray for
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(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Jaded on 18 February, 2022, 11:26:07 am
Hah! As if!
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Jaded on 18 February, 2022, 03:07:39 pm
Hooray for
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Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Ivo on 18 February, 2022, 08:09:37 pm
Appaling level of Eurosport comments during the 1000m speedskating. He had absolutely no clue about racerules so completely missed the mark during the final race.
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Beardy on 18 February, 2022, 08:21:52 pm
I must admit 9 was confused by what happened and the subtitles weren’t exactly helpful. I gathered it was something to,do with crossover etiquette/ rules but that was about all.
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Ivo on 19 February, 2022, 04:54:41 am
I must admit 9 was confused by what happened and the subtitles weren’t exactly helpful. I gathered it was something to,do with crossover etiquette/ rules but that was about all.

If both riders are at equal level at the crossover the inner rider has to yield. (Logically since in order to arrive equal at the crossover the outer rider has to be ahead while crossing the finish line 100m earlier). While crossing the finishline Verbij knew it would be tight squeeze, tried to accelerate but remarked that he was about level entering the crossover area. He then had 3 choices: continue, hit the other rider and be DQ'd; accelerate further and having to fully brake at the end of the crossover or stop skating, give way and call it a day. None of the available choices did help him for a good time.
This does happen from time to time, especially when there's a fast starter paired with a fast finisher.
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Beardy on 19 February, 2022, 08:08:31 am
Thanks for the explanation.
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: rafletcher on 19 February, 2022, 11:22:47 am
I find freestyle skiing and pretty much all snowboarding a bit silly, with points for showing off.  I prefer the racing or timed events.  Ski cross is good fun, though: a bit like BMX racing.

Both board cross and ski cross are brilliant entertainment, in particular the mixed board cross. The parallel slaloms are ok too.
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Russell on 19 February, 2022, 11:32:56 am
I'll admit to not taking a great deal of interest in the Olympics but have heard that equipment in the sliding sports are being blamed for not being as advanced as other nations.  If this is the case is there an argument for standard bobsleighs, skis, skates etc being issued by the organisers?

I think there's a precedent for this is the summer Olympics where Laser dinghys are supplied.
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Beardy on 19 February, 2022, 11:55:16 am
The solo bob is a standard item manufactured by a single company. That was a discipline introduced this year I beleive, so perhaps it might start a trend.

The Olympic classes of dinghy have always been strict one design although the laser company took this to extremes when they introduced their first boat stating that only they could manufacture them. A number of other one manufacture classes have sprung up since then because it really levels the playing field at club level. I believe that laser themselves provide those used in the olympics and they are allocated by lot to the individual sailors.
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: rafletcher on 19 February, 2022, 12:17:21 pm
I'll admit to not taking a great deal of interest in the Olympics but have heard that equipment in the sliding sports are being blamed for not being as advanced as other nations.  If this is the case is there an argument for standard bobsleighs, skis, skates etc being issued by the organisers?

I think there's a precedent for this is the summer Olympics where Laser dinghys are supplied.

you’d need to introduce standard waxing for skis and boards too, which would have helped the French woman’s board cross competitors, as their tech had clearly got it wrong.

I think it’s a good idea myself.
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: rogerzilla on 19 February, 2022, 04:56:09 pm
4 man bob today.  Great fun.
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Ivo on 19 February, 2022, 11:22:32 pm
I'll admit to not taking a great deal of interest in the Olympics but have heard that equipment in the sliding sports are being blamed for not being as advanced as other nations.  If this is the case is there an argument for standard bobsleighs, skis, skates etc being issued by the organisers?

I think there's a precedent for this is the summer Olympics where Laser dinghys are supplied.

Skates are very personal. I'd dare to state that the top end skates in speedskating are in principle all as fast. You'll have to choose the skate fitting best to your style and feet. Also the exact rounding of the skate has to fit to your technique.
Suits can be different but not to the extend that it makes a major difference, as long as a good taylor is employed to ensure that the suit fits exactly to the skaters body. Mind you, they are ultra tight, you're kind of shoehorned into them.
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Jaded on 20 February, 2022, 12:28:13 am
I'll admit to not taking a great deal of interest in the Olympics but have heard that equipment in the sliding sports are being blamed for not being as advanced as other nations.  If this is the case is there an argument for standard bobsleighs, skis, skates etc being issued by the organisers?

I think there's a precedent for this is the summer Olympics where Laser dinghys are supplied.

you’d need to introduce standard waxing

Difficult to police, either with the skin suits, or the modern loose cool kit.
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Jaded on 20 February, 2022, 03:00:56 am
The curling….
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Wowbagger on 20 February, 2022, 04:01:45 pm
Son & partner/partner's family were up bright and early cheering on the Battling BRITISH FINNISH Boys in the Ice Hockey. I think they enjoyed it.
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: peterc on 20 February, 2022, 04:32:24 pm
I'll admit to not taking a great deal of interest in the Olympics but have heard that equipment in the sliding sports are being blamed for not being as advanced as other nations.  If this is the case is there an argument for standard bobsleighs, skis, skates etc being issued by the organisers?

I think there's a precedent for this is the summer Olympics where Laser dinghys are supplied.

Skates are very personal. I'd dare to state that the top end skates in speedskating are in principle all as fast. You'll have to choose the skate fitting best to your style and feet. Also the exact rounding of the skate has to fit to your technique.
Suits can be different but not to the extend that it makes a major difference, as long as a good taylor is employed to ensure that the suit fits exactly to the skaters body. Mind you, they are ultra tight, you're kind of shoehorned into them.

I had to have help to get into my race suit when my shoulder wasn't at its best, there is a reason why the skaters throw back hoods soon after crossing the line.

I think there is more debate in the Skeleton/Luge/Bob events where speeds are higher so drag reduction has a greater input to performance.
It sounds like the costs associated with buying/developing/building a top end sled mean the IOC and the national federations look at the cost reduction of Monobob and think that is a way to level the playing field a touch.
Given that GB track cycling got a quiet the haul of golds by throwing money and science at a problem I'm a little thoughtful about the IOC taking that approach. (Even if Argon 18s track frames seem to be fastest anyway.)
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Ivo on 20 February, 2022, 05:49:35 pm
Just to put it into perspective, a top level set of Viking skates would set you back about  € 1200,-, a top level suit € 200,-. Tailor made stuff could be a bit more expensive but costs will still stay limited.
What's expensive for top level skating are ice time and training camps. In my own racing days at regional level I'd buy myself a new pair of skates every 4 years (costing about half of the quoted sum) but I'd easily spend € 1000-  € 2000,- for training costs (ice time), travel and lodging with regional events and the occasional national level event.
For skaters from 'small' speedskating countries there used to be the Inzell academy where they could train together.
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: peterc on 21 February, 2022, 04:27:17 pm
For skaters from 'small' speedskating countries there used to be the Inzell academy where they could train together.

When UK "restarted" long track speed skating we stayed there (though not as part academy), I still tend to stay there when in Inzell.
We are lucky that most of the current top GB long trackers have places to train in Holland, some with trade teams, the middle bit (or which I like to think I sit) has to make do with short track and jumping on the ferry for Holland once a month. I also have a stock pair of Vikings :-)
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Ivo on 21 February, 2022, 09:23:05 pm
For skaters from 'small' speedskating countries there used to be the Inzell academy where they could train together.

When UK "restarted" long track speed skating we stayed there (though not as part academy), I still tend to stay there when in Inzell.
We are lucky that most of the current top GB long trackers have places to train in Holland, some with trade teams, the middle bit (or which I like to think I sit) has to make do with short track and jumping on the ferry for Holland once a month. I also have a stock pair of Vikings :-)

I started out with Vikings and then switched to Viking boots with Maple blades.
UK restarted quite late. Way too late for a good young lady who was in the offing (at that time skating for Young Orange, having a UK father and Dutch mother). Later she won gold for the Netherlands at Olympic rowing (you may know her name ;) ).
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Salvatore on 22 February, 2022, 03:00:59 pm
Son & partner/partner's family were up bright and early cheering on the Battling BRITISH FINNISH Boys in the Ice Hockey. I think they enjoyed it.

The word to us in such circumstances is "Torille!"

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Torille%21
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: peterc on 22 February, 2022, 11:04:24 pm
UK restarted quite late. Way too late for a good young lady who was in the offing (at that time skating for Young Orange, having a UK father and Dutch mother). Later she won gold for the Netherlands at Olympic rowing (you may know her name ;) ).

I don't know the name, I can see four possibilities and a process of elimination makes me think Maaike Head.
Seems to be some Rowing/Skating cross over, when we have the "launch" event in Inzell we had a rowing (and cycling) gold medallist come to try long track.
Title: Re: The Winter Olympics 2022
Post by: Ivo on 23 February, 2022, 06:08:26 am
UK restarted quite late. Way too late for a good young lady who was in the offing (at that time skating for Young Orange, having a UK father and Dutch mother). Later she won gold for the Netherlands at Olympic rowing (you may know her name ;) ).

I don't know the name, I can see four possibilities and a process of elimination makes me think Maaike Head.
Seems to be some Rowing/Skating cross over, when we have the "launch" event in Inzell we had a rowing (and cycling) gold medallist come to try long track.

And that's the correct answer ;).
We used to race and train on the same track.