Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => OT Knowledge => Topic started by: fruitcake on 16 April, 2024, 07:06:34 pm
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A friend wants to buy a record player but would also need an amp and speakers. If she were to buy a turntable, would it play at proper sound levels if its phono out were plugged into a boombox / active speaker system, or would it be too quiet? She's not after high fidelity sound, but she wants it to be audible at normal levels.
I seem to recall that (hi-fi) amps have presets for phono and CD (and other devices) and that the phono channel is adjusted for a different level of signal. I think phono needs more amplification than other sources. Am I right?
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Yes. You need to have a dedicated phono input.
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Phono pre-amps also apply an RIAA equalisation curve. It's not just about turning the volume up.
A lot of modern turntables have a built-in pre-amp, as do some active speaker systems.
(NB a lot of modern turntables are also utter shite. In particular avoid anything with this plastic mechanism (https://www.reddit.com/r/turntables/comments/1b5r8br/is_this_the_cheap_mechanism_to_avoid_majority/))
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I bet a stand-alone phono pre-amp is a thing these days...
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As has been said, yes, the amp needs a 'phono' input, which is different from 'all the other' inputs, which are 'line level' inputs.
The phono input is much more sensitive, and also has a special RIAA equalisation response, as mentioned.
If the amp does not have a phono input, then you can get external phono pre-amps which you can pass the signal through.
Also, some turntables *might* have a phono pre-amp built-in, and provide a line level output, but I've not come across such a thing.
Probably not relevant in relation to the equipment we are discussing, but phono inputs also come in 2 flavours: Moving Magnet (MM) and Moving Coil (MC), to suit the pickup cartridge on the turntable.
The pickup cartridges on the turntable can be one or the other.
99.9% will be MM.
An unspecified cartridge on the turntable can be assumed to be MM, and an unspecified amp phono input will be MM.
A MC cartridge is a rather more expensive and specialised bit of kit, (typically a several hundreds of quid for the pickup cartridge alone) and needs the correspondingly more expensive and specialised MC phono input, which most amps won't have, or only have as a cost++ option, and then only on higher-end kit.
If it doesn't say, and you don't need to re-mortgage your house, then you can assume MM.
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Also, some turntables *might* have a phono pre-amp built-in, and provide a line level output, but I've not come across such a thing.
I have one in front of me right now (Aiwa PX-E80 designed for a midi hifi system). Your mind may be blown to learn there are ones with onboard bluetooth (for speakers/headphones) and/or USB (for digitising your old records with authentic analog sound quality).
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Also, some turntables *might* have a phono pre-amp built-in, and provide a line level output, but I've not come across such a thing.
I have one in front of me right now (Aiwa PX-E80 designed for a midi hifi system). Your mind may be blown to learn there are ones with onboard bluetooth (for speakers/headphones) and/or USB (for digitising your old records with authentic analog sound quality).
Condolences. Thoughts and Prayers etc...
But then again, I have a Sonos line in/out thingy connected to a 1980s Linn / Naim system!
So I can stream my scratchy old vinyl to modern Sonos speakers!
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But then again, I have a Sonos line in/out thingy ...
So I can stream my scratchy old vinyl to modern Sonos speakers!
Ooh! Details/link please? TIA
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A friend wants to buy a record player but would also need an amp and speakers. If she were to buy a turntable, would it play at proper sound levels if its phono out were plugged into a boombox / active speaker system, or would it be too quiet? She's not after high fidelity sound, but she wants it to be audible at normal levels.
I seem to recall that (hi-fi) amps have presets for phono and CD (and other devices) and that the phono channel is adjusted for a different level of signal. I think phono needs more amplification than other sources. Am I right?
Why not get an Ion max player with built in speakers
I bet a stand-alone phono pre-amp is a thing these days...
Yes Pro ject make one for there decks.
As has been said, yes, the amp needs a 'phono' input, which is different from 'all the other' inputs, which are 'line level' inputs.
The phono input is much more sensitive, and also has a special RIAA equalisation response, as mentioned.
If the amp does not have a phono input, then you can get external phono pre-amps which you can pass the signal through.
Also, some turntables *might* have a phono pre-amp built-in, and provide a line level output, but I've not come across such a thing.
Probably not relevant in relation to the equipment we are discussing, but phono inputs also come in 2 flavours: Moving Magnet (MM) and Moving Coil (MC), to suit the pickup cartridge on the turntable.
The pickup cartridges on the turntable can be one or the other.
99.9% will be MM.
An unspecified cartridge on the turntable can be assumed to be MM, and an unspecified amp phono input will be MM.
A MC cartridge is a rather more expensive and specialised bit of kit, (typically a several hundreds of quid for the pickup cartridge alone) and needs the correspondingly more expensive and specialised MC phono input, which most amps won't have, or only have as a cost++ option, and then only on higher-end kit.
If it doesn't say, and you don't need to re-mortgage your house, then you can assume MM.
My leak stereo 30 amp has a switch for MM / MC and the pro ject pre amp has a switch for MM/MC
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As above.
If she's buying the entire kit & caboodle from scratch then she's got a couple of options. Go to a local hifi dealer or Richersounds (highly rated) , tell them her requirements & budget & see what they can supply..
or research the issue herself more thoroughly & buy suitable separates on the 2nd hand market. If she wants to do that I'd suggest she joins a hifi forum & ask for advice. https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/ would be my recommendation. It's a well informed & friendly place with a decent 2nd hand section.
Most low to middle end amps don't cater for vinyl so a separate phono stage is likely to be required.
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If she's buying the entire kit & caboodle from scratch ... Go to ... Richersounds (highly rated) , tell them her requirements & budget & see what they can supply..
This^ is all she or you need to know.
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If she's buying the entire kit & caboodle from scratch then she's got a couple of options. Go to a local hifi dealer or Richersounds (highly rated) , tell them her requirements & budget & see what they can supply..
Start by saying "I want to buy a gramophone".
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I suppose the equivalent now, would be, you want to buy an MP3 player or CD.
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I bet a stand-alone phono pre-amp is a thing these days...
It always was. I was briefly acquainted with a chap who made them before he went off to QED to design stuff for them. I used one for much of the late 80's and early 90's with my CD/tape/phono setup, along with a Maplin kit power amp that I built.
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I bet a stand-alone phono pre-amp is a thing these days...
yes they are, there are decent ones and the cheap 9v powered one I used for a bit before buying a proper amp.
on battery it was no bad, but when I tried with a power pack to save going through PP3 batteries it made an orrible buzz
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I suppose the equivalent now, would be, you want to buy an MP3 player or CD.
“I’d like to buy a television”
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But then again, I have a Sonos line in/out thingy ...
So I can stream my scratchy old vinyl to modern Sonos speakers!
Ooh! Details/link please? TIA
Mine is a Sonos Connect, but I understand that's been discontinued and replaced with the Sonos Port, which looks much the same.
https://support.sonos.com/en-us/article/play-line-in-on-your-sonos-port
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But then again, I have a Sonos line in/out thingy ...
So I can stream my scratchy old vinyl to modern Sonos speakers!
Ooh! Details/link please? TIA
Mine is a Sonos Connect, but I understand that's been discontinued and replaced with the Sonos Port, which looks much the same.
https://support.sonos.com/en-us/article/play-line-in-on-your-sonos-port
Thank you.
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As it happens an ad from Richer Sounds, for a complete system priced at £299, showed up in my emails just this morning:
https://www.richersounds.com/denon-dp-29f-silver-cambridge-audio-axa25-lunar-grey-with-wharfedale-diamond-9-0-black.html?utm_source=emailmarketing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20240418__rsd_actives&utm_content=2024-04-18
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But then again, I have a Sonos line in/out thingy ...
So I can stream my scratchy old vinyl to modern Sonos speakers!
Ooh! Details/link please? TIA
Mine is a Sonos Connect, but I understand that's been discontinued and replaced with the Sonos Port, which looks much the same.
but costs even more.. I won't touch Sonos stuff again, as they seem keen on leaving users in the dirt after a few years. My Sonos connect no longer did (connect) as it failed to meet the most elementary security standards, so my NAS refused to entertain it. I bought a complete new Denon home cinema amp with their Heos system, which is far better than the Sonos ever was, for less than £100 more than a replacement Sonos Port. Sonos appear to be aimed at trendy types who will pay over the odds for the image and name. The Android interface was truly appalling, and bore no resemblance to the PC interface. My old home cinema amp was fine, but 7 years old, and has a new home now.
https://support.sonos.com/en-us/article/play-line-in-on-your-sonos-port
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So, no one has said
1. Open bin
2. Place record player in bin
3. Install streaming service on desired devices
4. Set streaming quality to 'studio'
5. Install equaliser labelled 'degrade output to vinyl quality'
<runs for door>
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There's a pretty good FB group for hi-fi buy & sell, as well as advice:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/147779992487350
Woofage jnr got into vinyl collecting a couple of years ago. I acquired him a s/h Rega turntable, initially played through my phono pre-amp that I molished about 25 years ago and into a basic mini hi-fi ("borrowed" from his sister) and a pair of old Celestion speakers that I acquired during my days at the co. He now has his own phono pre-amp (Pro-Ject, about £100-ish) and the whole setup sounds pretty good. It needs a better amp though.
It was always the case that, following garbage in = garbage out, the hierarchy of components should be source > amp > speakers. Opinion sometimes differs, but you can't go wrong with this approach.
Used Rega, Pro-Ject, AR, Dual, Thorens etc belt-drive turntables can be had for reasonable money and will last forever.
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Reminds me have a dual 505 for sae.