Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => Further and Faster => Topic started by: inc on 22 April, 2010, 09:22:27 am
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I am seriously considering getting a Powertap. I think the Elite + will do all I need, the manual says some functions are missing from the cpu display but Cyclepowermeters.com tell me they will upgrade the firmware FOC so it has the same functions as the others. I think my biggest problem may be software as I don't use Windows or even have access to a Windows PC. It looks like the Power Agent software is Java and works OK with Linux as does GoldenCheetah, any feedback on these applications or any others would be welcome.
thanks
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An Elite+ in a wheel with a Garmin 705 is only £95 more than an Elite+ in a wheel with a CycleOps headunit. It's tempting isn't it. Kill several birds with one stone and all that...
I'll upload my TCX files that come from my Garmin 705 with Power data from my PowerTap.
That way you can download and install both GoldenCheetah and Saris' PowerAgent software (both available for Linux as you say) and see what it looks like with real data.
http://www.greenbank.org/misc/705history.zip
WKO+ is Windows only (but they do a 14 day free trial download. I'm waiting until I've got more data before I try this out).
You might be able to persuade someone with a PowerTap headunit to part with a bunch of data files that come from the Saris headunit.
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Are you saying that GoldenCheetah and Saris' PowerAgent will both download from the Garmin using the usb via Linux. A Garmin also gives altitude which I would like. I know I can use gpsbabel to access the .tcx files and I think they now have support for the Garmin 500
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Are you saying that GoldenCheetah and Saris' PowerAgent will both download from the Garmin using the usb via Linux. A Garmin also gives altitude which I would like. I know I can use gpsbabel to access the .tcx files and I think they now have support for the Garmin 500
Yes. The 705 appears as an external HDD (well, two, one for the internal memory and one for the micro-SD card).
GC and PowerAgent just read the .tcx files that get dumped into Garmin\History\*.tcx on the first internal drive. There's no need to import from the actual device either, you can import the copies of the files above into both programs in exactly the same way.
The 705 doesn't use ANT+ to talk to the computer, it uses the bog standard USB connection, and data are transferred as files. No special USB drivers above and beyond the standard 'external HDD' USB drivers.
ANT+ is only used for collecting HRM and Power data. (Although it can also be used to send rides from one 705 to another wirelessly).
Not sure how the 500 communicates with the computers. They do look lovely (only £150 at Handtec).
Just checked Garmin's side. The Edge 500 uses a USB connection too.
I guess it comes down to mapping. If you want mapping then get an Edge 705. If you don't then a £150 Edge 500 looks like a bargain as you'll get HRM, Power, GPS (including elevation), all in one package.
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What's the Edge's batter life like? Powertap head unit is 300h on a CR2032.
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Thanks for the info, I have just spoken with cyclepowermeters and it looks like the Garmin 500 needs Garmin software first before it will go into GoldenCheetah or Saris' PowerAgent. I need to check if gpsbabel will do the job.
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What's the Edge's batter life like? Powertap head unit is 300h on a CR2032.
Edge 705 does about 15h "typical". Less with backlight, etc.
Edge 500 is quoted at 18h.
Charges via USB and several people have knocked up a non-data1 USB cable with an external battery pack (such as a PowerMonkey) to keep them going longer than 15h. Several people here use them for Audaxing, including LEL.
I've also done a 200km Audax using my Forerunner 405 (8 hour battery life with GPS on) by charging it with a battery pack at controls.
1. A standard data enabled USB cable will put the unit into external HDD mode and stop it working as a GPS. A cable with certain pins grounded will power the unit but not put it into external HDD mode and it'll keep on rocking...
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Thanks for the info, I have just spoken with cyclepowermeters and it looks like the Garmin 500 needs Garmin software first before it will go into GoldenCheetah or Saris' PowerAgent. I need to check if gpsbabel will do the job.
Really? Both tools take in the .TCX files that the Edge 705 creates without any adjustment. From what I'd read I thought the Edge 500 creates the very same format .TCX files.
[EDIT]
Ah, no. Edge 500 emits .FIT files.
Looks like GoldenCheetah has been patched to handle FIT files though (although there may be some niggling problems).
Golden Cheetah discussion forum on Edge 500 (http://groups.google.com/group/golden-cheetah-users/browse_thread/thread/ebed10d423d7b244/fe699956581ae3b6?lnk=gst&q=edge+500#fe699956581ae3b6)
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I'll upload my TCX files that come from my Garmin 705 with Power data from my PowerTap.
That way you can download and install both GoldenCheetah and Saris' PowerAgent software (both available for Linux as you say) and see what it looks like with real data.
http://www.greenbank.org/misc/705history.zip
Thanks for your files it interesting to see how GoldenCheetah displays the data. It also displays some of my .hmr files. I tried for ages to install version 1.3.0 without any joy. However 1.2.0 installed no problem. You are a Unix expert any idea what the problem may be. When I try to untar it I get the following message
ian@sid:~/gc$ tar xzvf GoldenCheetah_1.3.0_Linux_x86.gz
tar: This does not look like a tar archive
tar: Skipping to next header
tar: Exiting with failure status due to previous errors
ian@sid:~/gc$
I was just doing the above in my userspace but have tried it from /tmp as they suggest as a user and root with the same error. I have posted on their mailing list but no reply yet.
If I use Ark it unpacks the executable but clicking on it just prompts for an application to open it. As you said elsewhere they are working on .fit files as are gpsbabel. I have been looking at the Joule 2 it has altitude and a lot of useful power display options it also appears Saris are releasing code to Golden Cheetah helping development which appeals more to me than Garmin ignoring Linux completely.
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I downloaded the file to windows and unpacked using winzip, and it contains ELF near the start, which does mean it's an executable.
It probably doesn't have the correct permissions set:
simon@librarian:~/tmp$ file GoldenCheetah_1.3.0_Linux_x86
GoldenCheetah_1.3.0_Linux_x86: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.8, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped
So it's an x86 Linux executable, not a tar file, which is what I suspected.
Edit: to make it runnable you need to chmod +x the file
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So it's an x86 Linux executable, not a tar file, which is what I suspected.
Edit: to make it runnable you need to chmod +x the file
Thanks simon, the downloaded file is GoldenCheetah_1.3.0_Linux_x86.gz which properties say is a is a gzip file but that should have a .tgz suffix The earlier version GoldenCheetah_1.2.0_Linux_x86.tgz has this .tgz which extracts and works OK I have tried changing .gz to .tgz but it makes no difference. I have also tried uncompressing the file in my userspace which I will have permissions for but still won't work. It is just not extracting. As I said before version 1.2.0 works fine.
Google says
If you have GNU tar (Linux system) you can use the z option directly: to extract
$ tar xvzf file.tar.gz
$ tar xvzf file.tgz
which is the command being used
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For software, you could try SportTracks. It is Windows software, but apparently its possible to run it on Linux with Mono. And it seems it can do various stuff with power analysis, though I've not tried that myself.
Though it seems the Edge 500 is not yet supported. It uses some sort of FIT files, and which are currently only supported by Garmin's own software. More details here: View topic - Thinking about an Edge 500? Think twice. (http://www.zonefivesoftware.com/SportTracks/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=7662)
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So it's an x86 Linux executable, not a tar file, which is what I suspected.
Edit: to make it runnable you need to chmod +x the file
Thanks simon, the downloaded file is GoldenCheetah_1.3.0_Linux_x86.gz which properties say is a is a gzip file but that should have a .tgz suffix The earlier version GoldenCheetah_1.2.0_Linux_x86.tgz has this .tgz which extracts and works OK I have tried changing .gz to .tgz but it makes no difference. I have also tried uncompressing the file in my userspace which I will have permissions for but still won't work. It is just not extracting. As I said before version 1.2.0 works fine.
Google says
If you have GNU tar (Linux system) you can use the z option directly: to extract
$ tar xvzf file.tar.gz
$ tar xvzf file.tgz
which is the command being used
you need:
gzip -d GoldenCheetah_1.3.0_Linux_x86.gz
A .gz file is not the same thing as a .tgz file
Then chmod +x GoldenCheetah_1.3.0_Linux_x86
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For software, you could try SportTracks. It is Windows software, but apparently its possible to run it on Linux with Mono. And it seems it can do various stuff with power analysis, though I've not tried that myself.
Though it seems the Edge 500 is not yet supported. It uses some sort of FIT files, and which are currently only supported by Garmin's own software. More details here: View topic - Thinking about an Edge 500? Think twice. (http://www.zonefivesoftware.com/SportTracks/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=7662)
I have a Forerunner 310XT and use Golden Cheetah for analysis. To import I first upload from my device to Garmin Training Center and then export the .tcx for import to Golden Cheetah. IMO its really not a big deal and as I understand it this is all you'd have to do with the Edge 500.
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you need:
gzip -d GoldenCheetah_1.3.0_Linux_x86.gz
A .gz file is not the same thing as a .tgz file
Then chmod +x GoldenCheetah_1.3.0_Linux_x86
Thanks again Simon, I knew they were different but had it in my head they had made a mistake packaging not changed the type of package. Ark was opening it fine all along it just needed the permission changing. :-[
Ian
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I have a Forerunner 310XT and use Golden Cheetah for analysis. To import I first upload from my device to Garmin Training Center and then export the .tcx for import to Golden Cheetah. IMO its really not a big deal and as I understand it this is all you'd have to do with the Edge 500.
But that requires using Garmin Training Center, which probably doesn't work on Linux.
Also, there is a more direct way to import from the 310XT (on Windows):
The ANT Agent automatically downloads the data from it, and saves it as TCX files in the "%APPDATA%\GARMIN\Devices\number\History" directory (where number is the device ID). So you can just import from there, without using Training Center.
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You might be able to persuade someone with a PowerTap headunit to part with a bunch of data files that come from the Saris headunit.
I have been playing with your files ( Garmin) in both GoldenCheetah and Power Agent 7 . It would be good to get hold of a couple of simple rides ( no intervals) from a Power tap cpu. Any kind soul got a couple I could have to play with.
Thanks
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You might be able to persuade someone with a PowerTap headunit to part with a bunch of data files that come from the Saris headunit.
I have been playing with your files ( Garmin) in both GoldenCheetah and Power Agent 7 . It would be good to get hold of a couple of simple rides ( no intervals) from a Power tap cpu. Any kind soul got a couple I could have to play with.
Thanks
You could have all of my data back to 2007. Easier that than picking them out. :). Are all in wko+ format can you use those in gc?
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You could have all of my data back to 2007. Easier that than picking them out. :). Are all in wko+ format can you use those in gc?
Thanks Simon, that would be great, it looks like wko+ is on the import file list. You could just email ( it is in my profile) them direct if it is any easier.
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You could have all of my data back to 2007. Easier that than picking them out. :). Are all in wko+ format can you use those in gc?
Thanks Simon, that would be great, it looks like wko+ is on the import file list. You could just email ( it is in my profile) them direct if it is any easier.
Your email is hidden - you need to untick the "hide from public" option for that to work. Or just PM me your email and I'll zip 'em up and send them.
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Your email is hidden - you need to untick the "hide from public" option for that to work. Or just PM me your email and I'll zip 'em up and send them.
I have just sent my email, I have tried to change my profile but it says I am using wrong password but I am not, another mystery.
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Your email is hidden - you need to untick the "hide from public" option for that to work. Or just PM me your email and I'll zip 'em up and send them.
I have just sent my email, I have tried to change my profile but it says I am using wrong password but I am not, another mystery.
I've sent the data - it's quite large, even with compression it's about 2.7Mbytes.
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I've sent the data - it's quite large, even with compression it's about 2.7Mbytes.
Thanks simon, I have just tried a few and they load up fine, lots of data to play with.
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Well I have raided the piggybank and ordered an Elite+ powertap hub with a joule2 head, Bob at Cyclepowermeters gave me a good deal. It is just the hub ( didn't want a Mavic rim) but Bob gave me the spoke lengths for the Ambrosio rim I am going to use and I have now got the spokes from my LBC, so roll on Tuesday. I looked at the two Garmin CPUs The Edge 500 looks good but reports are not that positive, I didn't particularly want gps functions and they do have problems with some power functions ( no NP) and no real Linux support, Robert Lipe developer of Gpsbabel say of the .fit format " It's a nutty complicated format" and he knows as much as most about gps files. .Saris do support Linux with PowerAgent ( Java) with the latest version 7.5.1.10 now ( yesterday) supporting .fit files but overall it was down to the Elite+ head, upgraded to SL spec FOC or the Joule2 with altitude and much more. Golden Cheetah also deserves supporting as it is being very actively developed. I asked on their mailing list about support for s710 .srd files and was asked to submit a feature request, that feature is now included, quite impressive, I think greenbank has also had features added.
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Well I have raided the piggybank and ordered an Elite+ powertap hub with a joule2 head, Bob at Cyclepowermeters gave me a good deal. It is just the hub ( didn't want a Mavic rim) but Bob gave me the spoke lengths for the Ambrosio rim I am going to use and I have now got the spokes from my LBC, so roll on Tuesday. I looked at the two Garmin CPUs The Edge 500 looks good but reports are not that positive, I didn't particularly want gps functions and they do have problems with some power functions ( no NP) and no real Linux support, Robert Lipe developer of Gpsbabel say of the .fit format " It's a nutty complicated format" and he knows as much as most about gps files. .Saris do support Linux with PowerAgent ( Java) with the latest version 7.5.1.10 now ( yesterday) supporting .fit files but overall it was down to the Elite+ head, upgraded to SL spec FOC or the Joule2 with altitude and much more. Golden Cheetah also deserves supporting as it is being very actively developed. I asked on their mailing list about support for s710 .srd files and was asked to submit a feature request, that feature is now included, quite impressive, I think greenbank has also had features added.
You get NP from your analysis software. I can see no reason at all to have NP displayed on the head unit like the Joule does (unless of course you don't have a computer with which to analyse your ride). Personally I find having a head unit that does power and GPS quite nice for post-ride analysis.
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You get NP from your analysis software. I can see no reason at all to have NP displayed on the head unit like the Joule does (unless of course you don't have a computer with which to analyse your ride). Personally I find having a head unit that does power and GPS quite nice for post-ride analysis.
That was just one thing, there are loads, I have a GPS, mostly for OSM mapping but Garmin do not support Linux, quite the opposite, so I choose not to give them my money. Here are a list of recent Garmin firmware changes, If you want a GPS that also does power great. I don't.
Change History
Changes made from version 2.90 to 3.10:
* Added ability to use waypoint elevation as the starting elevation for an activity when the user starts within approximately 30m of this waypoint.
* Fixed issue where workouts using power zones based on percent of FTP or heart rate zones based on percent of maximum HR were saved incorrectly.
* Fixed issue where Garmin Training Center could give a data transfer failed error if the unit had a bike profile name longer than fifteen characters.
* Fixed issue with inaccurate display of history dates in some languages.
* Added support for updated Australia Daylight Saving Time start and end dates.
* Updated translations.
Changes made from version 2.80 to 2.90:
* Added support for high capacity SD cards. (4GB, 8GB, etc.)
* Improved power and speed data recording to minimize spikes.
* Added 3 and 30 second moving average power data fields.
* Fixed issue storing empty/unnamed speed zones in user profile.
* Fixed issue where viewing a Scheduled Advanced Workout causes it to be deleted.
Changes made from version 2.70 to 2.80:
* Restructured activity logging to reduce the number of invalid TCX files.
* Corrected issues from 2.70 that could possibly corrupt the 'History' directory.
* Removed potential spikes in the power data after periods of coasting.
* Increased the allowable digits in the 'vertical to point' field to 4.
* Increased the allowable digits in the 'calories' field to 5.
* Updated translations.
C
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You get NP from your analysis software. I can see no reason at all to have NP displayed on the head unit like the Joule does (unless of course you don't have a computer with which to analyse your ride). Personally I find having a head unit that does power and GPS quite nice for post-ride analysis.
Indeed. NP is based on (or just is) the 4th root of the 30 second average of the fourth powers of the power readings over that period. It's not a realtime reading.
I've just taken all power related values off my usual display fields on the Edge 705 as I'm not really interested in them whilst riding (I'm not racing or TT-ing). I'd much rather go with 'feel' and to push myself and use the power data post-ride.
Obviously a 10 or 25 mile TT you would benefit from seeing the avg power values during the ride, but I'm not doing that so I don't...
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P.S. I find myself lusting after a fixed version of the PowerTap hub.
I know they're available, but the acquisition of such an item would be noticed in the GB household, as would the absence of one of firstborn's kidneys (required to fund such item).
Gah!
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NP is based on (or just is) the 4th root of the 30 second average of the fourth powers of the power readings over that period. It's not a realtime reading.
There is a quite interesting thread about NP on the GC mailing list which Andy Coggan has posted on. My simplified interpretation is that it is more relevant than average power where there is a lot of variation of pace or load So for example where I live and ride in the Welsh hills one hour spent equally between 360W climbing and 0W freewheeling gives 180W average as would one hour steady in the fens at 180W quite clearly the training load is different and NP attempts to address that, Looking at the Joule manual it looks like normalised power is one of the 36 values that can be selected for dashboard display so I would assume it is a realtime value.
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If you have a GPS cpu for your powermeter there is a nice feature in the latest version of Golden Cheetah where your ride is shown on GE. You will have to build the latest version from their git repository or wait for the upcoming 1.4 release. Aerolab is also there which looks like it may be interesting. Aerolab: Work in Progress | NY Velocity - New York bike racing culture, news and events (http://nyvelocity.com/content/coachingfitness/2010/aerolab-work-progress)
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Well a little update, it has taken a month but finally got there. I just bought the hub as I didn't want a Mavic rim. I built the wheel in a couple of hours and configured the Joule . I had already bought Andy Cogan's book, the recent 2nd edition so went as suggested for the one hour FTP ride, it is a long time since I have made that sort of effort so I was disappointed to find that the Joule had not recorded the ride. I thought I had done something wrong so did it again two days later to find that ride hadn't recorded either. A trawl of the relevant forums seem to indicate others with the same problem. I emailed and rang Saris and they sent me a link to a beta PowerAgent 7.5.2.2 but it did not made any difference. There was a new version of firmware for the Joule, which may have helped but it would not load ( via Poweragent) others with Windows, Mac and Linux were having the same problem. Powermeters lent me a standard head which worked fine so I sent the Joule back for replacement. The new one arrived and the first ride it recorded OK, yippee, second ride no downloadable ride although there is a file on the memory ( it won't import either ). The final straw was the altimeter, it has no zero so with the recent high pressure it was showing an altitude of 97m when it should be 265m the first Km of any ride I drop 100m so for all the ride I had no functioning altimeter. Bob sent me a Garmin 705 Saturday and it works great, files work fine in PowerAgent but especially with Golden Cheetah and the new map function where the whole ride is shown on Google maps with the power display colour coded on the road in my zones. The Joule is a nice bit of kit but still has teething problems and now compared with the Garmin seem overpriced as well. I also found I can extract a gpx from the tcx files with Gpsbabel so it is OK for OSM as well.
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I got a new wireless powertap. The old one would record for 30h. The new only records for at most 24h. So at the speed I ride, no longer enough to record the power data for a 600k.
The wireless head unit does have a couple of features the old one didn't but reducing the memory size seems crazy to me.
So I'm thinking 705 with external power now, combine navigation and power etc. If I got a Joule, it's limited to 20h battery life so I'd have to have external power for that too.
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I suppose you could get two standard heads for the price of a Joule and just change them at 20 hours and merge the rides with your software.
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Genius! I never thought of that! Probably the simplest solution. :)
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Shiny 705 goodness. You know it makes sense.
My recent 200km Audax took up ~45MB recording position, elevation, cadence, HR and power every second (in a horribly wasteful XML format containing a big URL in each data point).
That means the ~1GB internal memory (not the SD card used for holding the maps) would be good for a 4500km Audax recording a data point every second.
Actually that's quite scary that if I'd used this to record every bit of my cycling last year I'd be chomping through 2GB a year.
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My present to myself next year will be one of these:-
Powertap SL track hub only (http://www.cyclepowermeters.com/powertap-sl-track-hub-only-536-p.asp)
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My present to myself next year will be one of these:-
Powertap SL track hub only (http://www.cyclepowermeters.com/powertap-sl-track-hub-only-536-p.asp)
Git.
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My present to myself next year will be one of these:-
Powertap SL track hub only (http://www.cyclepowermeters.com/powertap-sl-track-hub-only-536-p.asp)
24 spoke only ?
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My present to myself next year will be one of these:-
Powertap SL track hub only (http://www.cyclepowermeters.com/powertap-sl-track-hub-only-536-p.asp)
24 spoke only ?
24-32 on the drop downmenu, I think.
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Yes, reading it again it looks like black only in 24 spoke
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My present to myself next year will be one of these:-
Powertap SL track hub only (http://www.cyclepowermeters.com/powertap-sl-track-hub-only-536-p.asp)
24 spoke only ?
24-32 on the drop downmenu, I think.
20 silver
24 silver
24 black
28 silver
32 silver
Since mine would be for Audaxing I'd be going for 32 and building it into an Open Pro.
Just have to sell a kidney to fund it first...
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Powertap SL track hub only (http://www.cyclepowermeters.com/powertap-sl-track-hub-only-536-p.asp)
Oooh.
I wish I hadn't seen that...
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I'm hoping to have one in time for a little trip over to France in August, ideally way before this for the qualifying rides (albeit not the K&SW).
I'm not overjoyed by being limited to the White Industries splined sprockets though. I would have hoped for a traditional threaded hub although I can see why the splined mounting would make it less likely to thread the hub...
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I'm not overjoyed by being limited to the White Industries splined sprockets though.
<checks>. Hmmm, they are kind-of pricey, but if I were to splash out on the hub I don't think I'd stress too much over the £35 sprocket to go with it. The mention of 14-16T on the Cyclepowermeters site must be a typo, White Industries offer them up to 19T (UK site) or 20T (US), so there's a reasonable choice of gears without going for tiny chainrings.
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By the way, do you know what happens to the strain gauges under leg braking? I assume this has all been thought through at least to the extent that it won't break them or throw them out of calibration. But will they actually give "negative" readings?
Could actually be quite fun to monitor leg-braking performance... Hmm...
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By the way, do you know what happens to the strain gauges under leg braking? I assume this has all been thought through at least to the extent that it won't break them or throw them out of calibration. But will they actually give "negative" readings?
Could actually be quite fun to monitor leg-braking performance... Hmm...
The hubs seem to be able to register negative torques. I'm not sure how autocalibration works when you're riding fixed.
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I have one of these beasties (fixed wireless), very promising after breaking (bad design, not superior legs.... alas) the previous version.
You have to disable the auto zero and manually zero the head unit before each run on the track (or possibly after a few miles on the road)- it's mostly temp which causes the zero to drift I think.
The white cogs are a necessary evil, you need to avoid reverse torqueing the hub (that's what killed the previous iteration, usually) - there are fasteners holding the torque tube in place and they are right hand threads. In the new version, they have removed the requirement for un threading cogs (probably the highest reverse torque the hub ever "sees") and glued the hub together as well. I personally would hold off skiddy braking, these are only approved by the manufacturer for track use, no idea how hard they are to break, but kinda pricy! The old stylee ones used to set me back about 300 each and then I'd carry the conversion stuff across each time (Surley fixxer and wheelbuilder.com axle)- typically they would last 2 years but a mate got unlucky and bust one after 2 weeks. This old style is no longer supported so each bust hub is for throw-away only.
If you are considering getting one of these (new stylee wireless), by all means call me at the bike whisperer number, I can do you a good deal or talk you through getting it second hand- basically you need to find a new type wireless or even wired hub and send it for conversion to Wheelbuilder.com in the US- it's what I did for my hub, not being minted.
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Interesting, thanks for those comments.
I'd actually considered the track on for everyday use on my fixed (including Audaxing and even PBP). If there are any reliability issues then I'd rather not risk an important ride on one. Nor do I want to spend large sums of money on something that's going to break.
I'd expect it to be tough enough to survive year round commuting at least, or at least be cheap to repair should normal wear and tear get to it.
Purchase on hold anyway (as I'm skint...)
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I've emailed Cyclepowermeters to see if they'll do a PowerTap SL Track as a rental to give it a play.
I've also asked them what they think of the reliability and suitability of them being used on the road in all weather (I've no plans to use them on the track). I'll post a summary of any response I get.
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I've emailed Cyclepowermeters to see if they'll do a PowerTap SL Track as a rental to give it a play.
I've also asked them what they think of the reliability and suitability of them being used on the road in all weather (I've no plans to use them on the track). I'll post a summary of any response I get.
No response, will try emailing them again.
(I don't know whether they're crap or their replies aren't getting to me. I don't want to have a go at them only to find out they dutifully replied to my emails but I never saw any response. Does anyone have any experience of Cyclepowermeters.com?)
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I've emailed Cyclepowermeters to see if they'll do a PowerTap SL Track as a rental to give it a play.
I've also asked them what they think of the reliability and suitability of them being used on the road in all weather (I've no plans to use them on the track). I'll post a summary of any response I get.
No response, will try emailing them again.
(I don't know whether they're crap or their replies aren't getting to me. I don't want to have a go at them only to find out they dutifully replied to my emails but I never saw any response. Does anyone have any experience of Cyclepowermeters.com?)
IME they're just crap. I ordered a hire PT at the end of 2009, but then after waiting for over a month decided to buy one (from elsewhere) instead. Tried phone CPM, but couldn't get through so emailed to say I didn't want the hire powertap any longer. Then about a month later I got a phone call from them saying that my powertap was ready!
So either they don't get emails or they don't read them or someone reads them and forgets and then does nothing about it.
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Guessed as much.
I tried to hire a PT wheel from CPM in the past. I completed the payment section on the website, filled in the hire agreement, scanned it in as PDF and emailed it to them.
I spent the next two weeks kind of expecting a a package to arrive.
Nothing.
That was 18 months ago. I can only assume they just couldn't be arsed to process the order. They took no money (and the credit card I used has expired now so I'm not worried).
I might give them a call tomorrow...
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A response!
(I asked him if they were going to offer the fixed 'Track' version for rent, plus whether they were for use purely indoors on the track.)
At the moment we have no plans to rent the track versions. The track market is so much smaller and your is the first enquiry for one that until there is more demand we cannot commit the funding to it.
I will find out about the waterproofness of the hubs. The torque tube is the same as all the other powertaps so the electronics will be sealed in resin like all the standard hubs. Saris have run these hubs full of salt water for 3 months to test water resistance so I think you would be ok to use it outside but I will let you know the official responce.
I havent heard about any problems with the breaking. But we have only sold 2 so maybe not enough to have had any problems.
Goes back on my hmm list for a while...
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The main waterproofing issues is with the battery carrier surely, since this is the only part that is outside the hub and is only protected by an o-ring seal. I have a wireless SL and have done the K & SW, Denmead 600, Border Raid, Rural South 300 and Mille Cymru. The K & SW was wet on day 1, Border Raid was properly wet on day 2. Mille Cymru was drizzle on day 2. No problems at all so far, apart from the wheel needing retruing during day 3 of the MC.
When you change the battery you'll see that there are resin blobs so the only parts possibly exposed to water are those outside the hub, under the dust cap: the ribbon connector and the battery caddy. There are O-ring seals on the cap and it's a good idea to re-grease these when changing the battery. I've never bothered, though.
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Purchase on hold anyway (as I'm skint...)
3 and a bit years later and I buy one! Ordered it from Evans from all places as it's down to £595: http://www.evanscycles.com/products/cycleops/powertap-pro-track-hub-ec036004
Also ordered a couple of the 1/8" splined cogs (17T and 18T) from Hubjub (cheapest I could find at £25 each).
When it arrives I'll get my trustworthy LBS[1] to build it into a wheel.
1. Stratton's on East Hill in Wandsworth. Previous trustworthy more local LBS was W.F.Holdsworth in Putney but it shut down recently.
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It has arrived and it is off to LBS this evening. Will hopefully have something by the weekend (depends on rim availability). Also waiting for the splined cogs to arrive.
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It has arrived and it is off to LBS this evening. Will hopefully have something by the weekend (depends on rim availability). Also waiting for the splined cogs to arrive.
Ha! LBS still awaiting delivery of the Open Pro CD to build it into. Maybe this weekend.
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It has arrived and it is off to LBS this evening. Will hopefully have something by the weekend (depends on rim availability). Also waiting for the splined cogs to arrive.
Ha! LBS still awaiting delivery of the Open Pro CD to build it into. Maybe this weekend.
Picked it up this weekend (Mavic took an age for the Open Pro CD). Quick spin around the block and all seems well. Just have to find the time to take it out for a proper blast around the Surrey Hills or just a bunch of Richmond Park laps.