Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => Health & Fitness => Topic started by: Chris S on 14 June, 2008, 06:18:44 pm
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On today's Audax.
Intermittent knee pain in the preceding 50km , then grimping up a steeper hill something went p'twang and pain shot off the scale. I was unable to continue.
Now at home, in RICE mode.
When I put weight on that leg, it feels like someone is trying to lever off my knee cap. No swelling, no bruising - just the stabbing pain when I put weight on it.
I wasn't planning on going to the docs/hospital unless it doesn't improve after a few days as I know the look I'll get when I say "Well, I was 100 miles into a 300 mile bike ride when my knee started to hurt."
I may go to a sports physio I've been to before.
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Really sorry to hear about this Chris. You could have called me as I am not that far from where you had your incident.
Doesn't sound very good to me. Where is the pain?
Have a hug.
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Doesn't sound very good to me. Where is the pain?
Right behind the knee cap. And there's pressure - like someone is levering off my knee cap.
Have a hug.
Aww thanks :-*
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Doesn't sound very good to me. Where is the pain?
Right behind the knee cap. And there's pressure - like someone is levering off my knee cap.
Have a hug.
Aww thanks :-*
Chris, this sounds very bad, please seek the advice of an expert, don't leave it to see if it gets better. Cruciate perhaps?
Have another huggle. :-*
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Cruciate perhaps?
That was what I was thinking when I read the OP (that, or alien knee-burrowing worms)...maybe not, but best get it checked.
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They come in threes.
First Pumpe, now you !!
Lookout forum, the knee thing is going on. :hand:
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Sympathy, Chris. Get well soon: the only reason the rest of us sleep easy in our beds is because we are safe in the knowledge that you are out there patrolling the flatlands on the lookout for baddies.
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They come in threes.
First Pumpe, now you !!
Lookout forum, the knee thing is going on. :hand:
The "three" principle is fulfilled.Marj has just had one of her's replaced completely.
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Thanks Alan, phew, that is good to know. I did actually know that as I'd read the thread, but it had slipped under my memory radar ;D
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Best wishes Chris.
(Event to the extent that I hope you will soon be overtaking me on Bikejournal!!)
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Oh crikey, that sounds serious.
I really wouldn't wait to see if gets better. I'd seek advice ASAP.
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Go see a doc. And try to avoid loading the knee.
I don't know what's available near to you but there's a sports injury clinic at Addenbrooke's that will see you within 48h of the injury occurring and they might be best for this kind of thing, it is a fair trek though and you'd have to go tomorrow morning to fit within the 48h window.
Addenbrooke's Hospital: Peter Wilson Sports Injury Clinic (http://www.addenbrookes.org.uk/serv/clin/sports_unit/peter_wilson_injury_clinic.html)
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Ouch Chris - hope it gets un-borked soon.
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Go see a doc. And try to avoid loading the knee.
I don't know what's available near to you but there's a sports injury clinic at Addenbrooke's that will see you within 48h of the injury occurring and they might be best for this kind of thing, it is a fair trek though and you'd have to go tomorrow morning to fit within the 48h window.
Addenbrooke's Hospital: Peter Wilson Sports Injury Clinic (http://www.addenbrookes.org.uk/serv/clin/sports_unit/peter_wilson_injury_clinic.html)
they're excellent, I've used them several times**. They dont actually check that the injury was within 48 hours, but you may have to bend the truth slightly...
** they used to have a stunning swedish physio called Trude who completely sorted my hip dodgy hip.
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Spoke to my GP this morning, when I called for one of the emergency appointments. Having described my condition to him, he said "See you at 11 - don't be surprised if I send you straight on to Kings Lynn for a scan." :-\
Pain is not so intense now, but there is bruising and swelling, and it throbs like a bugger.
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Ouch. Hope the doc or Kings Lynn can help!
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Oh, bad luck Chris. I hope they can get you sorted quickly.
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"See you at 11 - don't be surprised if I send you straight on to Kings Lynn for a scan." #
Do not ride to the doctors!
Get well soon Chris. About 18 years ago when I was still sailing competitively (dinghy sailing is not good for knees), a had bad knee trouble. My GP told me to give up sailing or else the problem would get worse. That was the only advice he would give, so I changed my doctor to one who understood the problem (who also happened to be medic to the British Olympic Sailing squad). He had it sorted in a month or so, mainly by giving me excersises to do. So Chris, make sure that the doctor you see understands the problem you've got..
Hope to see you out and about soon.
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There but for the grace of God go I...Hope it goes well at the Quacks Chris..
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Spoke to my GP this morning, when I called for one of the emergency appointments. Having described my condition to him, he said "See you at 11 - don't be surprised if I send you straight on to Kings Lynn for a scan." :-\
Pain is not so intense now, but there is bruising and swelling, and it throbs like a bugger.
Extra large hugs coming your way. :-*
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75% certainty I've torn the front meniscus.
Doc was certainly very thorough - I was in there for 45 minutes!
He doesn't think there's ligament damage, but an MRI would answer that for sure. He wants to give it a few days rest - there's a lot of fluid in there at the moment - before committing to an MRI.
He's also fairly sure there's some debris in the joint as I can't straighten my leg. If that persists, I may need minor surgery to "tidy things up a bit".
For now, I'll stay on the Horse Tranquilisers and in addition am now on Diclofenac. Also - absolute rest for "several days".
Doc was interested in the fact that I'm the first cyclist he's seen with this problem - it's usually footballers who get this. I suppose there might be a possibility I was over-geared on fixed, grimping up a hill, and possibly have some age related wear and tear there; and these factors combined and the cartilage just failed ::-).
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This website (http://www.zimmer.co.uk/z/ctl/op/global/action/1/id/8085/template/PC/navid/621) says that for people under the age of 30, damage is usually caused by sport; for over 40's it's wear & tear.
How long off the bike, Chris?
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This website (http://www.zimmer.co.uk/z/ctl/op/global/action/1/id/8085/template/PC/navid/621) says that for people under the age of 30, damage is usually caused by sport; for over 40's it's wear & tear.
How long off the bike, Chris?
Absolute rest for a few days, but longer term, he said I should either contact the hospital and see a physio, or see an independent Sports Physio to get an exercise and rehab program going. All that depends on whether I need further treatment of course.
By "front" meniscus, I'm assuming he means "outer".
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:(
Get well soon ChrisS. That "absolute" rest is gonna be tough.
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Do as you are told and do absolutely nothing. I really hope they sort this for you asap. Can I send you some crosswords or perhaps a ball of wool and some knitting needles?
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As a member of the cycling related knee pain fraternity, you have my sincerest sympathies.
As for time off the bike, I borked my knees in early March, got on a bike last week and wished I hadn't.
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Ooh, bugger. Take all the advice & get well soon.
And here am I feely sorry for myself that I've been on holiday since Friday and instantly contracted my first cold of the year :(
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My sympathies too, nocturnal stoats snuck into my bedroom about four weeks' ago now and ate my knees.
I did get on the bike for a short ride at the weekend (about three miles) without calamity. But it was flat, low gear stuff and every little twing in my knees was a harbinger of some potentially explosive knee dysfunction. I expected to have crawl across the road afterward and retrieve my embedded patella from a passing pedestrian's skull (and what a Daily Mail headline that would make).
Weather permitting I may attempt a longer foray later today as a prelude to a commute later in the week (notably not over Crystal Palace). Doc reckons there's nothing palpably wrong and much twisting of my leg failed to elicit any yelps of pain, but my knees still don't quite feel right. Not sure if that's just psychological or not. I guess I'm about to find out.
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CURSES. I slipped in the shower this morning & injured my knee.
It's the left one,same as Marj.If it was my right one we could have managed a pedal stroke between us & used the tandem.
So that's both of us who will be limping into the Knavesmire later.At least I can borrow a stick or crutch if necessary,we have several to choose from in the house. ::-)
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<can't resist>
So Alan will be relying on Marj's crutch?
</can't resist>
OK - I get my wrist splints.
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I cringed when I read this..... I think im feeling the pain for you. Def do all the docs say i managed to do my ACL and tear the miniscus along with hyperextension of the joint. mine was done running but after 3 ops and a graft its doing well and ive discovered cycling (mush comfier than running)
Hope all goes well and dont push that knee. A second injury really really hurts!!!! :hand:
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Thanks to the messages from all the well-wishers :thumbsup:.
One week on, and things are improving well now, though still far from OK. I'll be making an appointment with a sports physio this week, to see what I need to do to rehabilitate. I'm going nuts with cabin fever - I think I may do a couple of swimming sessions this week - though I need Mrs S to take me as driving is too painful.
Walking round the house, it sounds like I have a bag of marbles in my pocket sometimes - all the popping and clicking coming from my knee ::-).
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Thanks to the messages from all the well-wishers :thumbsup:.
One week on, and things are improving well now, though still far from OK. I'll be making an appointment with a sports physio this week, to see what I need to do to rehabilitate. I'm going nuts with cabin fever - I think I may do a couple of swimming sessions this week - though I need Mrs S to take me as driving is too painful.
Walking round the house, it sounds like I have a bag of marbles in my pocket sometimes - all the popping and clicking coming from my knee ::-).
cabin fever:walking ? DOES NOT COMPUTE. Try being unable to walk stand up for 2 months. Get it sorted Chris and don't eat too much and get fat like I did !!
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Managed the commute last week without any pain. But, the following day, the knees stiffened up and the tingles and twinges of doom resumed. Most annoying really, since it doesn't really hurt in the big style ouchy fashion any longer but enough for me to know there still inflammation.
So, this week I am attempting to be sedate and forgoing any exercise. It's hell. I've gotten so used to being active in the last couple of years that stopping for any period of time makes me very listless and twitchy. Even on business trips, I usually find a gym or go for a jog. But now, I'm stuck here, being taunted by the sun outside, the bikes in the garden, the cool water of the local pool. Argh. I'm not going to last.
Mind you, I once did a couple months in a wheelchair and crutches. I married my TV.
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Saw a sports physio today. He's pretty sure I've done my ACL >:(
Now in the process of arranging an MRI for final diagnosis.
Prognosis is rather grim if it is.
1. If I need surgery - up to a year to get back to fitness, after the op.
2. If I don't need surgery - up to a year to get back to fitness from now.
Bugger.
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:'( Sorry to hear that.
A year? I give you 6 months. ;)
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Saw a sports physio today. He's pretty sure I've done my ACL >:(
Now in the process of arranging an MRI for final diagnosis.
Prognosis is rather grim if it is.
1. If I need surgery - up to a year to get back to fitness, after the op.
2. If I don't need surgery - up to a year to get back to fitness from now.
Bugger.
Hang on to the 'up to a year', it may be less. It depends on you. They'll be giving you a time period based on the average person. They said up to a year to me, so far I have no reason to doubt them. I am enjoying my cycling now though, 8 months later. Don't despair, it's for the best, you know it is.
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Gosh Chris, really sorry to hear this. I can offer a foot massage but don't know what else to suggest :-\
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:(
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crap. Rotten luck.
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Chris,
that's a bu99er. hope the MRI comes out with the best answer.
you'll have to drive to Mildenhall ...
good luck and get better soon
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you'll have to drive to Mildenhall ...
I may well do that. I'll have to borrow/rent an automatic car though - I can't really trust my clutch leg...
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you'll have to drive to Mildenhall ...
I may well do that. I'll have to borrow/rent an automatic car though - I can't really trust my clutch leg...
I could come to collect you if you like?
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beat me to it. I was just thinking that unless I get a smaller tent I'll probably have may trailer. Though whether Chris wants to spend 43-odd km gazing at my rear wheel (hope it's a dry road) and hanging on at 6" above the roadway on a dodgy bit of canvas, well ...
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beat me to it. I was just thinking that unless I get a smaller tent I'll probably have may trailer. Though whether Chris wants to spend 43-odd km gazing at my rear wheel (hope it's a dry road) and hanging on at 6" above the roadway on a dodgy bit of canvas, well ...
That thought just made me spill my oats :)
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you'll have to drive to Mildenhall ...
I may well do that. I'll have to borrow/rent an automatic car though - I can't really trust my clutch leg...
I could come to collect you if you like?
That's really kind. It's not exactly on the way for you though. Aren't you riding one of the audaxes?
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beat me to it. I was just thinking that unless I get a smaller tent I'll probably have may trailer. Though whether Chris wants to spend 43-odd km gazing at my rear wheel (hope it's a dry road) and hanging on at 6" above the roadway on a dodgy bit of canvas, well ...
Not quite what I was expecting. ::-)
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beat me to it. I was just thinking that unless I get a smaller tent I'll probably have may trailer. Though whether Chris wants to spend 43-odd km gazing at my rear wheel (hope it's a dry road) and hanging on at 6" above the roadway on a dodgy bit of canvas, well ...
Sounds great! :thumbsup:
Edit: BTW - by August, I'm going to be fatter than John Prescott after a doughnut binge; 1500km cycling a month to 0km is going to play havoc with the metabolism...
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you'll have to drive to Mildenhall ...
I may well do that. I'll have to borrow/rent an automatic car though - I can't really trust my clutch leg...
I could come to collect you if you like?
That's really kind. It's not exactly on the way for you though. Aren't you riding one of the audaxes?
No it's not and yes I am but I don't mind. Would you be planning to camp?
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beat me to it. I was just thinking that unless I get a smaller tent I'll probably have may trailer. Though whether Chris wants to spend 43-odd km gazing at my rear wheel (hope it's a dry road) and hanging on at 6" above the roadway on a dodgy bit of canvas, well ...
Not quite what I was expecting. ::-)
unless he wants a crick in the neck ...
Chris, I'll get in touch nearer the time and see what's what! I may yet get round to replacing the canvas with something more sturdy though less comfy
note to self : still haven't booked onto camp site yet ...
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beat me to it. I was just thinking that unless I get a smaller tent I'll probably have may trailer. Though whether Chris wants to spend 43-odd km gazing at my rear wheel (hope it's a dry road) and hanging on at 6" above the roadway on a dodgy bit of canvas, well ...
Sounds great! :thumbsup:
Edit: BTW - by August, I'm going to be fatter than John Prescott after a doughnut binge; 1500km cycling a month to 0km is going to play havoc with the metabolism...
It might not be as drastic as you fear; I have gone from 11,000 miles per year to zilch without any gross change in my weight. I may be no lightweight but I'm not Prescott-shaped and can wear 20-year-old garments. Just don't eat if you're not hungry.
Hope your knee improves soon!
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beat me to it. I was just thinking that unless I get a smaller tent I'll probably have may trailer. Though whether Chris wants to spend 43-odd km gazing at my rear wheel (hope it's a dry road) and hanging on at 6" above the roadway on a dodgy bit of canvas, well ...
Sounds great! :thumbsup:
Edit: BTW - by August, I'm going to be fatter than John Prescott after a doughnut binge; 1500km cycling a month to 0km is going to play havoc with the metabolism...
Yup, it certainly does. Stay off the chocolate.
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Reasons to be optimistic I think.
The knee has felt much better the last three or four days, still clicky, and sore by the end of the day, but I'm off the Diclofenac and Horse tranquilisers.
So - against the advice of, well... everyone really, I twiddled my geared bike around the village for about 3km, on a really small gear. No problems, nothing snapped, broke, fell off or hurt. Some clickiness, that's all - but I put bugger all load through it really.
So - hopeful signs perhaps...
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Take it easy old chap.
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Hope the improvement continues...do NOT do anything to foolish !
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...do NOT do anything to foolish !
* puts down entry form for DIY 600 * (http://www.ivy-house.org.uk/images/whistle.gif)
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Chris, I read the fist page and then hadn't looked at this thread for some time, but after talking about you with Annie last weekend, I thought I'd have another read.
I didn't realise how badly you had damaged your knee. It would drive me round the bend if I suddenly couldn't ride my bike (well actually, it has happened, but that was a shoulder injury so I could go out walking for miles).
Have you thought about hiring a handcycle? Kevin at Dtek would probably have some to try out and hire one to you, If not try Cyclemagic or Bromakin in the midlands.
I'll let you look the websites up rather than link to them - it'll keep you busy for a while.
There's a story here on Velovision (http://www.velovision.co.uk/forum-new/read.php?3,2893) of someone in a similar position who hired one to comute with.
I'm not suggesting you audax on a handcycle, but if you get one, we'll organise a mid-Norfolk ride you can get out on. :thumbsup:
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...do NOT do anything to foolish !
* puts down entry form for DIY 600 * (http://www.ivy-house.org.uk/images/whistle.gif)
I knew you would be cycling again before the week was out. Don't do too much or I shall be round to have some serious words with you and that will be scary. Seriously though, little steps Chris. Crossing all of my ten fingers and ten toes for you.
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Have you had a scan to confirm the diagnosis yet?
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Have you had a scan to confirm the diagnosis yet?
No
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Take it easy Chris, get the scan done then see about becoming more active, and stay off the chocolate and beer
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...stay off the chocolate and beer
Oh bugger... ::-)
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believe me it's much easier and much more enjoyable to sit on your arse or in my case lie on my back and put weight on that it is to get it off
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believe me it's much easier and much more enjoyable to sit on your arse or in my case lie on my back and put weight on that it is to get it off
:)
Your progress in the last year is going to be one of my primary motivators to get back to fitness...
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Shucks, I am flattered. I ain't there yet but getting there. Stay positive and don't run before you can walk. I know these expressions are awful when one really can't stand on ones own two feet. Seriously be really careful not to rush things. I hope you don't need an operation but sometimes they do mean a faster recovery
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I'm finding it increasingly difficult to convince myself I need to maintain zero activity.
Nearly all the pain in my knee has gone - just a little when it clicks. There is no swelling anymore, and never was any instability.
On the basis of these facts, I just cannot believe I've done my ACL; there would surely be more symptoms if I had?
Still no sign of my MRI referral. I can either start getting myself minimally active again, or I can throw £300 away on getting an MRI privately. I bet it would show everything is OK.
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How mobile are you atm ? Are you hobbling around on crutches ?I started weight bearing before they said I should. My surgeon said do not do it for 3 months, I did it after two. Risky though.
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How mobile are you atm ? Are you hobbling around on crutches ?I started weight bearing before they said I should. My surgeon said do not do it for 3 months, I did it after two. Risky though.
I haven't been on crutches since the end of the first week.
I can get around the house, drive the car, and have ridden a bike about 3km. I've been forcing myself not to do any more until I have been scanned - but I think maybe this highly defensive approach is no longer necessary.
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Careful -- I know nothing -- BUT - you had to be collected because you could not even get 5 miles to Halesworth. Whatever was / is wrong - was pretty unusual even for the forum members with their huge range of experience, and injuries- so it is something that I just can not believe has self healed in 3 weeks. If you insist on getting on a bike --( apart from thinking you are foolish ) I plead with you to be very very careful -- I want you back as soon as poss. -- not laid up for even longer cos you were stupid.
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Play it safe Chris, hassle the medics about the scan. Tell the doctor what you told us earlier.
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Update. Still no sign of a scan, despite much hassling.
I'd have gone private by now, were it not for the fact that the knee is, very gradually, getting back to normal.
I'm still not walking much, but then, working at home, I never did ::-).
I've now done a couple of longer rides on the geared bike (fixed gear will be a No No for months) - at the weekend I did an easy 30km loop. I can't put a lot of load through the knee without it hurting, so I have to twiddle low gears - and I'm riding well below audax-average speeds, but hell - I don't care as I'm getting out at least.
I've bought a knee brace to see if that will help when I'm riding. I don't feel I need one at any other time, but it might help take some of the load off.
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Things are improving. (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=10.msg108680#new)
Norfolk & Norwich Hospital has contacted me. I have to ring a number in order to arrange an appointment to see an Orthopedic person ::-). By the time I get there, I'll be right as rain again.
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Just after Chris' knee disaster, (not then knowing how serious it may well be) - I offered to keep him company on a DIY 200 in late July to keep his RRTY going.
He called that offer in last week - and despite my suggestions of a repeated ride from Ely to Kings Lynn and back to Ely ( that would have been really flat !!) enough times to get to 200kms and with my car halfway between the two towns so that we were never far from support - he insisted on a trip from home to Stamford and return.
He had been claiming that the knee was getting better - and that he had done some cycling - up to 50kms ( or was it 80kms) in the last week or two.
We got going about 8.00 - having been wished well by his wife,Debbie - and I felt very responsible that I had to get Chris home (in good shape would be nice too) - and if we had done the 200 as well that would be a real bonus.
If you follow Chris's links you will see that our ride was pretty flat - topping out on the North Pickenham ridge at about 85 metres ( twice mind you - out and back).
I can report that Chris completed the ride in about 9 hours riding time - and a total time of 10 1/2 hours - including a pub stop in Stamford. He seemed to go pretty well for someone who was short of actual riding time in the last 7 weeks - had me struggling to keep in touch at times. He was pretty cheerful at the end - BUT we do have to bully him to actually get real medical advice on what the problem was / is.
So a good day - a cheerful Chris and a pleased Debbie-- but he must get the knee looked at.
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+1 for the bullying.
Otherwise I'm going to struggle to overtake him on BJ after all. :demon:
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Just back from the hospital, after an entertaining afternoon in N&N Orthopedics.
Went via X-ray to see a very nice consultant who didn't pull a face when I mentioned "I was 200km into a 600km bike ride when my knee suddenly started hurting."
After examinations and various pushing and pulling my leg, and testing various degrees of motion, he was happy that (a) my ACL was working just fine, (b) there is no fluid now and (c) my quads are well balanced wrt to my patella.
He suggested we could probably find out what had happened from an MRI, and he was happy to put me forward for one - my choice - but he was also happy that nothing had happened that my body had subsequently been unable to reverse or repair, which discounted ruptured ACL or torn cartilage.
We discussed the X-ray; the only thing of any note on there was a very slight narrowing of the spaces between the bones "consistent with an active person of your age" to quote him directly.
In the end, I declined the MRI. He asked if I was unable to do anything I was able to do before, or was avoiding anything. I mentioned that I was taking it easier on the bike, and not using a fixed gear bike for long or hilly rides because of the extra loads. He thought that was reasonable.
There was an open invite to go back should the situation change, and he'd put me straight in for an MRI if that happened - but was happy to release me as a-ok :thumbsup:.
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:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Hurrah! :thumbsup:
Glad things have worked out.
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That's good news Chris. I am pleased for you. Continue to be sensible and take care.