Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => Topic started by: marcusjb on 09 March, 2011, 08:02:51 pm
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So with thoughts turning to summer and some longer rides, maybe even that silly French ride, I am pondering my options for saddlebags.
I currently use a Barley (Super C style) on a Bagman Sport with quick release - this works great.
What if I bought a Super C - could the Bagman Sport support it?
I know the easy answer is that Carradice say I need an Bagman Expedition - but that involves more money and having to change the Bagman over depending on which bag I want to use.
The dimensions for the two Bagmans are virtually identical - with the Expedition having about 2.5 cm more drop.
Looking at the leather straps on my Barley (that would normally go through the brackets on the back of the saddle, but go through the quick release on the Bagman in this case), they are angled up (i.e. being supported from above).
If I picture it all correctly, the Super C (which is 28cm high vs 15cm of the Barley) is going to stick up behind the saddle whether I use a sport or an expedition version of the Bagman - and is 2.5cm going to make any difference?
I'm hoping that someone understands what on earth I am talking about, and has tried a bag like the Super C on a Bagman Sport!
If it works, then it's great, because all I need do is swap the bags, rather than the whole Bagman - and save quite a lot of dosh!
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I see what you're getting at, and my answer is that I don't know, but I'd be interested to hear if it works.
Does anyone near you have a Super C you could try?
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You won't be able to fill the Super C right up.
You'll have to have it packed loosely enough that the support can make a dent in the underside big enough to allow the dowel and loops of strap down to the level of the QR clips.
Alternatively, if you fill the bag right up and sit it on the support you'd have to lengthen the straps so that the loops were something like 1.5 - 2" long and angled down rather than up, with consequent impact on the stability of the bag.
(I use Expedition QR with Camper Longflap)
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Do you really think you will need something bigger than the super C barley for PBP?
I was thinking that if I limit myself to just the barley and my super C bar bag then it will limit how much crap stuff I can take with me!
I'm expecting my Barley to contain a waterproof top, 2 pairs of shorts, 3 pairs of socks and my spare tubes, gear cable and spokes. I can then store bonk rations in the bar bag with a job lot of caffeine tablets, pain killers, arse cream and arm and leg warmers!
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If one opts for both the sport & expedition supports, can they share the same quick release ie can you buy one with the support and the other without and switch the support depending upon which bag you need to use?
Edit - or would it make more sense to just get the expedition and use that for either bag?
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Edit - or would it make more sense to just get the expedition and use that for either bag?
This actually makes the most sense I think!
I can lengthen the straps on the Barley slightly, so it's still supported from above (and below via the Bagman).
Coming soon to the For Sale board - Slightly used Bagman Sport Quick Release
@Feline - totally hear you - not sure if I am even going to be doing the French ride, but if I did, I'd ride over and might need to take a little more stuff (possibly tent and sleeping bag etc.). But I've not really got too far into even thinking about it, I'm going to start to form an opinion as I get into the 400km rides. However, there are some other plans for which a slightly larger saddlebag would also be advantageous.
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Do you really think you will need something bigger than the super C barley for PBP?
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I'm expecting my Barley to contain a waterproof top, .........
It's very easy to strap a rolled up waterproof to the lid of your Barley using (for instance) a pair of toe-straps. This releases considerable space inside.
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I have a Super C on a SQR block with an uplift
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Just a quick note to resurrect this thread in case anyone else needs to know this.
Saturn has the answer right.
I was out with a mate who had a Super C with an Expedition Bagman.
A Super C will not fit properly on a Sport (it's too tall - you'd sort of be scrunching it down a bit to fit) - however a Barley Super C will fit on an Expedition (though you'd have to let out the leather saddle straps 1 hole we reckoned to get it properly supported).
So, I have a Super C on order, will also order an Expedition Bagman - and sell on the Sport Bagman.
Glad I wouldn't have to change the support all the time as and when I change bags.
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Thanks for reporting back, I think I'll go for that option myself. I'm hoping to get a Barley Super C for day rides (if/when they make another batch) but then maybe a Super C for long weekends so I guess it would make sense to go for the Q/R Expedition to cater for both.
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Thanks for the info marcus.
I am currently weighing up the pro's and cons of the different larger Carradice saddlebags for when I need to carry my new (as yet unordered) uber lightweight camping gear. It will be handy if one support can stay on the bike and then just switch the Barley with the bigger bag.
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I'd recommend the Camper Longflap.
The Super C doesn't extend the same way, so you can't just stick the tent under the flap the same.
When buying camping gear to go in a saddlebag (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=549.msg307753#msg307753), lack of bulk is at least as important as lack of weight
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Not strictly true, andrew. You can get a tent on a Super C, because of the very long straps (I usually have the excess knotted round the clip). It is true that the flap does not extend. I suggested this as an option to Carradice, but they pointed out that it is a much more shaped lid anyway, providing better rain protection, so it wouldn't really be possible to extend it in the same way.
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The bulkiest item is probably going to be the down sleeping bag, which I was planning on putting into a compression dry sack. Would strapping this onto the saddlebag be an option? I suppose until I have actually got the tent, sleeping mat and bag it is hard to plan how it will all pack in. For me it is probably best to get the smallest bag I can get away with because I will expand to fill the available space most likely!
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The bulkiest item is probably going to be the down sleeping bag, which I was planning on putting into a compression dry sack. Would strapping this onto the saddlebag be an option?
I quite often carry a sleeping bag/bivvy bag combination strapped to the top of my Nelson Longflap inside an Alpkit drybag. Here it is on LEL:-
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5173/5529852187_8505f23fd8.jpg)
The saddlebag is mounted on an SQR block, the rack is really only being used as an over-engineered rear light mount.
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The bulkiest item is probably going to be the down sleeping bag, which I was planning on putting into a compression dry sack. Would strapping this onto the saddlebag be an option?
It depends how much stuff is in the saddlebag.
I've found that if I put enough into the Longflap that the flap extension comes into play, the part of the lid the strapping points are on points enough forwards that there isn't room between the saddlebag and your backside for very much. See photo on link in my previous post.
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The bulkiest item is probably going to be the down sleeping bag, which I was planning on putting into a compression dry sack. Would strapping this onto the saddlebag be an option?
I quite often carry a sleeping bag/bivvy bag combination strapped to the top of my Nelson Longflap inside an Alpkit drybag. Here it is on LEL:-
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5173/5529852187_8505f23fd8.jpg)
The saddlebag is mounted on an SQR block, the rack is really only being used as an over-engineered rear light mount.
:thumbsup: That looks like a very neat solution! ;D @ over engineered light mount. I am researching my kit based on packed-up dimensions as well as weight, so I will soon know what capacity my bag or bag-drybag combo will need to have. I am lusting over the titanium Jetboil as we speak!
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The bulkiest item is probably going to be the down sleeping bag, which I was planning on putting into a compression dry sack. Would strapping this onto the saddlebag be an option?
It depends how much stuff is in the saddlebag.
I've found that if I put enough into the Longflap that the flap extension comes into play, the part of the lid the strapping points are on points enough forwards that there isn't room between the saddlebag and your backside for very much. See photo on link in my previous post.
Ah yes, thanks that's worth me bearing in mind. How waterproof is your Longflap when in use? I often stick my phone and digital camera in my saddlebag.
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I've had no trouble at all with water ingress into my Nelson longflap. I'm surprised, it doesn't look to be well sealed at the top, but even torrential Welsh rain hasn't caused me any grief.
I do pack stuff in bags inside it though - real valuables go into the smallest drybag that alpkit make, other stuff into a selection of small bags. Alpkit do some nice rubberised nylon drawstring bags, which weigh nothing and keep stuff inside them dry-ish (fine inside a saddlebag - even when I've had a can of drink I was carrying puncture and leak, I wouldn't use them outside).
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I've now gone for a Super C Barley with a Q/R Bagman Expedition with the intention of also getting a regular Super C for short tours if I get on with a saddle bag. I haven't put it on the bike and filled it yet but I don't think loosening the straps to try to make the back of the bag (nearest the saddle) rest on the support will be desirable because that seems to allow the bag to sway a bit too much. I think keeping the straps fairly tight to keep the back firm and allowing the front to rest on the support will work best. I think it's OK though but if it turns out not to be I'd only need to get a Sport support to be used with the same Q/R (just one allen bolt).
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My Expedition support turned up this morning - so just fitted it quickly with my Barley Super C - let out the saddle straps one hole. It seems to work okay - the bag is well supported still and doesn't look like it will sway too much.
The bag is still fairly level, though I see Saturn's point about leaving the straps how they are and letting the support come from the 'front'.
I'll give it a go this weekend, see how it works out. I am waiting for a Super C for the trip to France (though I am worried it is too large, and may want something in between to stop me taking too much).
Hopefully it all works with the Barley, so I don't have to faff around with changing the Bagman over. In which case, I'll sell on the Bagman Sport at some point soon.
I'll update after the weekend's riding.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3440/5739377490_a1a52df99b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/marcusjb/5739377490/)
Barley on Expedition 004 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/marcusjb/5739377490/) by marcus_jb1973 (http://www.flickr.com/people/marcusjb/), on Flickr
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Sorry for the hijack - anyone just rest a super c or equivalent hooooge saddlebag on a rear rack? Can't be bothered with all this support stuff when I've got a rack on there anyway, and want the ability to add a pannier for commuting etc.
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Sorry for the hijack - anyone just rest a super c or equivalent hooooge saddlebag on a rear rack? Can't be bothered with all this support stuff when I've got a rack on there anyway, and want the ability to add a pannier for commuting etc.
I have a friend who does this successfully with a camper longflap.
I guess it depends how much higher your saddle sits than your rack.
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Butterfly and I have, between us, four bikes (Galaxy tourer, Orbit tourer, Ridgeback fixed and Dawes Galaxy tandem) which have the qr part of the Bagman and not the support, as all those bikes have pannier racks. If there's a pannier on one side only, it can make the saddlebag a bit skewed (particularly for Butterfly, as her seatpost is shorter), but it is a good and eminently workable system :)
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Cheers, clarion - just what I needed to know. I've got saddle bag loops for mounting but just want to rest it on a rack (or secure it somehow) as I just couldn't stand the faff with taking the rain cover on and off on my racktop bag which was also full to bursting!
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When i went upstairs earlier to get my bike to pop out to the bank, I realised that I hadn't mentioned something.
I found that the bag was sitting a bit low, and, in particular, the rear light wasn't at a very good angle, so I used a couple of toestraps crossed from the Bagman down to the pannier rack, which just sit the bag a tad further out. That's on my Ridgeback, but not any of the others.
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Sorry for dredging this out of the depths, but can anyone with a Bagman Expedition support tell me how deep it is – i.e. how far it extends below the saddle?
I'm struggling with a rack for a Super C – the Classic Rack is no good for my Cambium with plastic saddle loops and I don't have enough clearance below my saddle for the similarly capacious CarraDry SQR Bag (about 24cms, which is too much of a squeeze over the wheel).
Will I be able to bodge the Classic Rack with a pair of Cyclo Loops? They look like they'd angle the loops too much on the rails of a Cambium.