Yet Another Cycling Forum
Off Topic => The Pub => Topic started by: mattc on 24 August, 2016, 07:46:58 pm
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[One for Damon perhaps?? :D ]
Where is this from?
(featured extensively in the 6:30 comedy on R4 today. Not the noise that Ruth Archer makes - she's some flavour of Geordie, right?)
Is it for real i.e. not a traditional comedy exageration of something much less pronounced?
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Hull?
Guessing from your Urr Nurr.
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North/East Yorkshire. Scarborough, Hull, Bridlington.
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Having lived in Hull till until I was 18, I would say its definately a 'Ull' accent, think the series is called to Hull & back or something similar & it has Maureen Lipman playing the older character & she is an old girl of the school I went to.
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Not the noise that Ruth Archer makes - she's some flavour of Geordie, right?)
Ruth Archer's from Prudduh Prudhoe, Northumberland.
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It's a mistake to imagine that Archers' accents bear any direct relation to real-life ones.
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It's a mistake to imagine that Archers' accents bear any direct relation to real-life ones.
Yes, but Ruth is one of the few characters who specifically are intended to come from a real place, not a fictional one like "Felpersham".
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If the R4 Comedy is the one with Lucy Beaumont (Mrs John Richardson) and Maureen Lipman, then the answer is 'Hull'.
We saw Lucy Beaumont at the fringe last year. The first 2 minutes of her set were about that specific Hull shibboleth.
A colleague of mine is originally from Leeds and he retains the Leeds equivalent of the 'urr nurr'. He used to bring a briefcase into work, which impressed people until he opened it up one day and proclaimed plaintively, 'Urr nurr, nurrr cuurrk'. (He only used the briefcase to transport sandwiches and a can of fizzy drink). The phrase has stuck.
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It's a mistake to imagine that Archers' accents bear any direct relation to real-life ones.
Yes, but Ruth is one of the few characters who specifically are intended to come from a real place, not a fictional one like "Felpersham".
How do they pronounce 'Prudhoe' in the show?
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Prudda. She's been out of Northumberland for as long as I've been out of Newcastle, and yet...
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North East accents seem to have a lot of R sounds in them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXn5S3n6QIE
But like most accents in England they are non-Rhotic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt531039LL8
Though most English varieties in England are non-rhotic, rhotic accents are found in the West Country (south and west of a line from near Shrewsbury to around Portsmouth), the Corby area, some of Lancashire (north and west of the centre of Manchester), some parts of Yorkshire and Lincolnshire, and in the areas that border Scotland. The prestige form, however, exerts a steady pressure towards non-rhoticity. Thus the urban speech of Bristol or Southampton is more accurately described as variably rhotic, the degree of rhoticity being reduced as one moves up the class and formality scales.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhoticity_in_English
The English tendency to swallow their Rs, makes those who pronounce all of them them stand out, but it's normal outside England.
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Some chums of mine used to live in Prudhoe and as a result I now think of the place at the northern end of Alaska's Dalton Highway as Prudda Bay.
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If the R4 Comedy is the one with Lucy Beaumont (Mrs John Richardson) and Maureen Lipman, then the answer is 'Hull'.
We saw Lucy Beaumont at the fringe last year. The first 2 minutes of her set were about that specific Hull shibboleth.
A colleague of mine is originally from Leeds and he retains the Leeds equivalent of the 'urr nurr'. He used to bring a briefcase into work, which impressed people until he opened it up one day and proclaimed plaintively, 'Urr nurr, nurrr cuurrk'. (He only used the briefcase to transport sandwiches and a can of fizzy drink). The phrase has stuck.
See also "fern curls" as a method of communication.
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Having lived in Hull till until I was 18, I would say its definately a 'Ull' accent, think the series is called to Hull & back or something similar & it has Maureen Lipman playing the older character & she is an old girl of the school I went to.
Thanks Rachel :thumbsup:
(I didn't want to bias things by quoting the name of the programme, plus I had no idea if the accents really were authentic for Hull!)
Back to the Archers - is it "Jazza" who speaks reeeeally weirdly? He makes Ruth sound quite normal. (I am a passive Archers consumer). <dons flame coat ... >
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"Urr Nurr" (Oh No)
and
"Ahh Nurr" (I know)
are basically the only two things said by the two sisters from Leeds on Gogglebox*
*With the occasional inclusion of "ee duz thurr dunt-i?" (He does though, doesn't he?")
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Having lived in Hull till until I was 18, I would say its definately a 'Ull' accent, think the series is called to Hull & back or something similar & it has Maureen Lipman playing the older character & she is an old girl of the school I went to.
Thanks Rachel :thumbsup:
(I didn't want to bias things by quoting the name of the programme, plus I had no idea if the accents really were authentic for Hull!)
Back to the Archers - is it "Jazza" who speaks reeeeally weirdly? He makes Ruth sound quite normal. (I am a passive Archers consumer). <dons flame coat ... >
Jazza may speak weirdly, but at least I can tell it's him. Fairbrother bothers? Not a chance. Ruth is shagging one of them (or was), but I've no idea which. John Finnemore has a sketch somewhere about this sort of thing: "Hello, one of the men who always sound tired."
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I find it amusing that some people who, for many years, have lived away from the town/city/area where they grew up
retain their accents; whereas others in a similar situation lose theirs very quickly.
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North East accents seem to have a lot of R sounds in them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXn5S3n6QIE
But like most accents in England they are non-Rhotic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt531039LL8
Though most English varieties in England are non-rhotic, rhotic accents are found in the West Country (south and west of a line from near Shrewsbury to around Portsmouth), the Corby area, some of Lancashire (north and west of the centre of Manchester), some parts of Yorkshire and Lincolnshire, and in the areas that border Scotland. The prestige form, however, exerts a steady pressure towards non-rhoticity. Thus the urban speech of Bristol or Southampton is more accurately described as variably rhotic, the degree of rhoticity being reduced as one moves up the class and formality scales.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhoticity_in_English
The English tendency to swallow their Rs, makes those who pronounce all of them them stand out, but it's normal outside England.
My Prestonian cousins fall very heavily on their Rs. They tend to voice their aspirants as well.
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A colleague of mine is originally from Leeds and he retains the Leeds equivalent of the 'urr nurr'. He used to bring a briefcase into work, which impressed people until he opened it up one day and proclaimed plaintively, 'Urr nurr, nurrr cuurrk'. (He only used the briefcase to transport sandwiches and a can of fizzy drink). The phrase has stuck.
I remember it well. We were working at a well-known government establishment near the Berkshire/Hampshire border at the time. 1992.
Nevertheless, I associate that pronunciation with Hull.
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I find it amusing that some people who, for many years, have lived away from the town/city/area where they grew up
retain their accents; whereas others in a similar situation lose theirs very quickly.
Despite my having left Yorkshire in 1975, I still have a strong Barnsley acent. E Minor is often amused by my accent changing when I speak Welsh.
My niece, who left the northeast when she was five (she's in her mid thirties), and now lives in Italy, speaks Italian with a Florentine accent, and English with a faint (but noticeable) Middlesbrough accent.
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My Christchurch (NZ) sister still has a noticeable Geordie accent after sivvintin years of fush and chups whereas I have barely a trace left.
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I had a long stint working in Reckitt & Colman in London. A fair few of the project team were from their plant in 'ull. They produced a little glossary of the more common 'ull pronunciations and phrases.
The only one that has stuck with me is "Nuur smuurkin".
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Everything I visit my family in Hull & get on a bus I think did I ever sound like that, I think I have lost most of my accent & my family agree I just have to remember not to use certain phrases as nobody knows what they mean. I moved from Hull to Bradford 20 years ago so still have a Yorkshire accent
The guy in this youtube clip still has a strong accent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMtcFQfXxXM
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East Yorkshire is almost Frisian, and it's really noticeable in words like 'road.' The place names are different too, with lots of stuff like Wilberfoss, Fangfoss or Wetwang. History alive in the language and the land.
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Everything I visit my family in Hull & get on a bus I think did I ever sound like that, I think I have lost most of my accent & my family agree I just have to remember not to use certain phrases as nobody knows what they mean. I moved from Hull to Bradford 20 years ago so still have a Yorkshire accent
The guy in this youtube clip still has a strong accent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMtcFQfXxXM
Don't hang about gettin' nithered in the tenfoot or you'll get kingcough in your skipjack...
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[One for Damon perhaps?? :D ]
Where is this from?
(featured extensively in the 6:30 comedy on R4 today. Not the noise that Ruth Archer makes - she's some flavour of Geordie, right?)
Is it for real i.e. not a traditional comedy exageration of something much less pronounced?
The Wakefield accent also uses those expressions.
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having lived near Grimsby for 4 years and regularly visiting 'Ull afterwards, that was the first thing that sprang to mind, along with fuurtuurs.
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I have some cousins who spent what are normally referred to as their "formative years" in Hull. They have Scouse accents.
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Here is a mildly informative informative video about the history of the Humber ferry (or ferries). https://youtu.be/OBBoRBX_2OQ
But the bonus is the presenter's pronunciation of sounds such as are heard in 'boot', 'own', 'only', 'floating', 'show', 'growth' etc.
But if you don't watch it all, here's a highlight - 'row-boat' followed closely by 'toe-to-toe'.
https://youtu.be/OBBoRBX_2OQ?t=294
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John Finnemore has a sketch somewhere about this sort of thing: "Hello, one of the men who always sound tired."
How The Archers sounds to people who do not listen to The Archers (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p02mlwdp)
Pure genius.
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I can't remember when I last went in a shop with a bell that rings on the door. It was probably less long ago than the last time I listened to the Archers though.
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Here's a rather different accent for your amusement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUiETH4le20
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I can't find it now, but Leeds University collected recordings in the 50's from older people, most of whom had their birth dialects. Here are some (but not the archive I originally found, which featured Nelly Keen, a straw plaiter, who lived in the row of cottages (then just 2 up, 2 down, cold tap and outside midden) that we live in, but with 6 children! The cottcahes would have been 20ft x 12ft.) https://dialectandheritage.org.uk/sound-map/
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I can't find it now, but Leeds University collected recordings in the 50's from older people, most of whom had their birth dialects. Here are some (but not the archive I originally found, which featured Nelly Keen, a straw plaiter, who lived in the row of cottages (then just 2 up, 2 down, cold tap and outside midden) that we live in, but with 6 children! The cottcahes would have been 20ft x 12ft.) https://dialectandheritage.org.uk/sound-map/
Just listened to a farmer from Rillington (a village about 10 miles from here) from 1955 on that site. The old farmers round here on the Wolds still sound like that.
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Back to the Archers - is it "Jazza" who speaks reeeeally weirdly? He makes Ruth sound quite normal. (I am a passive Archers consumer). <dons flame coat ... >
Jazzer speaks fairly authentic W of Glasgow, the actor is from Greenock
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Here is a mildly informative informative video about the history of the Humber ferry (or ferries). https://youtu.be/OBBoRBX_2OQ
But the bonus is the presenter's pronunciation of sounds such as are heard in 'boot', 'own', 'only', 'floating', 'show', 'growth' etc.
But if you don't watch it all, here's a highlight - 'row-boat' followed closely by 'toe-to-toe'.
https://youtu.be/OBBoRBX_2OQ?t=294
For contrast, here's (or 'ere's) an 'umber accent from nigh on 70 year ago.
https://www.bl.uk/collection-items/yorkshire-dialect-miss-dibnah-methods-for-baking? (https://www.bl.uk/collection-items/yorkshire-dialect-miss-dibnah-methods-for-baking?)
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I can't find it now, but Leeds University collected recordings in the 50's from older people, most of whom had their birth dialects.
That would have been for The Survey of English Dialects. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survey_of_English_Dialects (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survey_of_English_Dialects)
My tutor was the fieldworker for Monmouthshire (yeah, I know) and went on to compile the 'Survey of Anglo Welsh Dialects' using the same methodology. Even by the 60s the methodology was thought to be outdated - Labov and his sociolinguistics were beginning to traditional dialectology - but it didn't stop his teaching me it and my using it.
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Pal o' mine to 'Ull, and was delighted to hear a member of staff in WHSmiphs asking a colleague if they had stock of the kerbergler. I think the Kindle is pretty much ubiquitous now, but still - there's some interest in alternatives, it seems.
The urr nurr is spreading west - it appears to be evident in Leeds and on into Huddersfield. And no, it's not just that they say that sort of thing in West Yorkshire - it's the very particular 'Ull shaped vowel, and it's become more prevalent.
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The urr nurr is spreading west - it appears to be evident in Leeds and on into Huddersfield. And no, it's not just that they say that sort of thing in West Yorkshire - it's the very particular 'Ull shaped vowel, and it's become more prevalent.
Possibly a northern parallel to the spread of "Estuary English" further south?
It's like the Danes coming in from the North Sea all over again!
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It's like the Danes coming in from the North Sea all over again!
Coincidentally, I was asked yesterday if I knew why English had dropped its grammatical gender. I didn't, but Wikipedia thinks that a natural decline might have been accelerated by contact with Old Norse in the Danelaw. But Old Norse was gendered as well, but not in quite the same way. So maybe they all sid 'Urr nurrr, this is too hard. Lets not bother with all that nonsense'. Much as I tried to do when starting on O-level German.