Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Reviews Database => Bicycles => Topic started by: Wowbagger on March 20, 2019, 10:25:17 pm

Title: E-bike experience
Post by: Wowbagger on March 20, 2019, 10:25:17 pm
Jan and I have the Circe Helios electric-assist tandem and it's pretty good. However, I am considering going down the e-assist route for solo touring and I wondered if anyone has taken the plunge. I tip my hat to Graham's thread https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=103714.msg1272697#new and I have also been looking around for other stuff. I have found these, which are mostly Rohloff-equipped.

I have two immediate observations:-

1. 'Ow much??? </canardly>

2. They look rather like 1920s motor bikes. I suspect that taking one on a train might cause a raised eyebrow or two from certain railway staff.

Does anyone else have experience of different makes of E-bike?
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: Kim on March 21, 2019, 12:54:09 am
Is there a link to something missing from that post?  It feels like there's some context I'm missing.

Amongst other not-so-LBSes, I spent some quality time visiting https://www.50cycles.com/ - including a few gratuitous test-rides[1] - on my quest to sort my friend out with a disability-needs-appropriate ebike (they ended up with a well-specced Dutch-style Kalkhoff.  I reckon the problem is that the ebike market - once you get past the minimum-sturdy-hybrid-that'll-take-a-motor level - is dominated by sensible city bikes (including a spattering of folders) and serious mountain bikes.  For obvious reasons, there's relatively little at the road end of the spectrum, and the closest you're likely to find off-the-shelf[2] to a tourer are the German-style 'trekking bikes' with the weight and aesthetic that implies.

There's always the conversion approach.  Tends to deteriorate into sensor-fettling and cable management, of course.

Agree that trains might be an issue.  CrossCountry, for example, ban "motorised bikes", though it's not clear what they actually mean by that.  But more realistically, the usual problems of lifting heavy cycles and spaces that don't fit bikes properly apply.  I reckon it's going to come down to the attitude test[3], and playing the old fart/disability card is probably better than being perceived as an oik with a homemade motorbike.


[1] Main conclusion: Different systems feel very different, and you need to test-ride (preferably somewhere with at least one steepish hill) to get a sense of what suits you.  Secondary conclusion:  Some models involve weird gear ratio decisions (ie. overlook the presence of a motor).  Tertiary conclusion:  Mid-drive motors and mechanically shifted hub gears can be a clunky combination.  Di2 integration helps (even in manual mode, as the motor knows to back off immediately when you're shifting).  Derailleurs shift under load better.  Nuvinci CVTs work well.
[2] Not counting electric versions from niche manufacturers of tandems, recumbents, etc.
[3] Last autumn, I shared a CrossCountry vestibule with a guy who had a rather nice looking e-MTB, who spent about 20 minutes enthusiastically discussing mountain biking with the train manager.  As ever, it comes down to the prejudices of the individual staff.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: Pale Rider on March 21, 2019, 03:06:20 am
Jan and I have the Circe Helios electric-assist tandem and it's pretty good. However, I am considering going down the e-assist route for solo touring and I wondered if anyone has taken the plunge. I tip my hat to Graham's thread https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=103714.msg1272697#new and I have also been looking around for other stuff. I have found these, which are mostly Rohloff-equipped.

I have two immediate observations:-

1. 'Ow much??? </canardly>

2. They look rather like 1920s motor bikes. I suspect that taking one on a train might cause a raised eyebrow or two from certain railway staff.

Does anyone else have experience of different makes of E-bike?

I have a Rohloff equipped Riese and Muller Charger - a 1920s motorbike lookalike of which you speak.

Taking it on trains hasn't been a lot more complicated than taking a push bike, with one exception.

The bike spaces on some Virgln Trains are hooks from which you hang the bikes by the front wheel.

Doing that with a heavy ebike is not easy, and as a general point, pannier bags are not designed to work well with the bike vertical.

I've not seen that type of bike 'facility' for a while.

My bike has Schwalbe 2.4" balloon tyres and there's no doubt its form factor is quite big, even though it's a medium frame.

It does fit OK in train vestibules, but takes up rather a lot of space and presents more of an obstacle for other passengers.

There are now a number of roadie-type ebikes which are 'light assist' and not so much bigger than a push bike.

The Orbea Gain is an example.

https://www.r-m.de/en-gb/models/

https://www.orbea.com/gb-en/ebikes/road/gain-road/

Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: toontra on March 21, 2019, 05:39:53 am
Quote
Taking it on trains hasn't been a lot more complicated than taking a push bike, with one exception.

The bike spaces on some Virgln Trains are hooks from which you hang the bikes by the front wheel.

Doing that with a heavy ebike is not easy, and as a general point, pannier bags are not designed to work well with the bike vertical.

I've not seen that type of bike 'facility' for a while."[/quote,]

Get used to it! That's the system all GWR Hitachi trains use and I suspect others will go the same way. Complete PITA. Of course it takes up less room so they can cram more plebs in, so that's ok.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on March 21, 2019, 08:55:00 am
I was about to say the same as Toontra – vertical dangly spaces are the way bike provision on trains is going. They're on the LNER as well as GWR.

I also wanted to say that high-end electric road bikes are definitely a thing nowadays – a rather expensive thing – usually with battery 'streamlined' into the down or seat tube for aesthetics. But I'm not aware of any mainstream e-assist tourers.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: orienteer on March 21, 2019, 09:35:27 am
Our Moulton tandem conversion is from ARCC. I have also used the Moulton in solo form.

ARCC sell ready-converted Moultons, and recently introduced their own diamond frame e-bike.

Probably worth visiting the Bile Show at Excel next Friday/Sat/Sunday to see a selection of e-bikes.

https://arccinnovations.com/ (https://arccinnovations.com/)
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: davelodwig on March 21, 2019, 11:26:20 am
I have ordered a Kona Electric Ute, I'm a bit tired of crawling up the Cotswold's cycling in and out of work, usually carrying multiples of stuff for various after work sports activities.

I spent a long time choosing a cargo style e-bike and despite rather fancying one with a box out the front settled on the kona as it offered the best price/performance/handling trade off.

D.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: Kim on March 21, 2019, 12:10:20 pm
The bike spaces on some Virgln Trains are hooks from which you hang the bikes by the front wheel.

Doing that with a heavy ebike is not easy, and as a general point, pannier bags are not designed to work well with the bike vertical.

Standard on Class 220/221 Voyager diesels.  CrossCountry have a similar arrangement on their Voyagers, only with less room for handlebars and more people getting in the way.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: CAMRAMan on March 21, 2019, 12:46:45 pm
I have a 7-speed Ortler Wien that's powered by a Bosch crank drive system. The hub gear / crank drive combo works very well and the quality of the bike is excellent. I've had several ebikes, some converted by me, another off the shelf Oxygen which was the inferior type Kim mentioned. I thought it was brilliant until I rode the Ortler.

www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum is another source of info.

If I had the money, I would buy an Ortler Bozen Performance. It has the more powerful Bosch drive, a larger battery and hydraulic disc brakes. Haibike offer a good range, much more widely available than the Ortler. PM if you want to discuss derestricting options.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: Wowbagger on March 27, 2019, 10:53:54 am
https://www.r-m.de/en-gb/models/

Just re-read Kim's post about a missing link. That's it.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on March 27, 2019, 10:55:14 am
There's a lot of different models on that page. Which one(s) were you referring to?
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: Wowbagger on March 27, 2019, 11:10:52 am
There's a lot of different models on that page. Which one(s) were you referring to?

They are all amazingly expensive. All of them.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: CAMRAMan on March 27, 2019, 11:30:52 am
https://www.bikester.co.uk/739015.html
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: davelodwig on March 27, 2019, 07:52:49 pm
This beast is arriving tomorrow,

http://www.konaworld.com/electric_ute.cfm

I am very excited.

D.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: Riggers on March 29, 2019, 01:22:16 pm
I quite like the look of the Van Moofs:

https://www.vanmoof.com/en_gb/electrified-s2-x2
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: Butterfly on March 29, 2019, 08:48:27 pm
https://www.r-m.de/en-gb/models/

Just re-read Kim's post about a missing link. That's it.

I liked the reise & mueller cargo bike when I test rode one at the bike show at the NEC a couple of years ago. If you can get a chance to ride some different ones with different systems do. I rode lots and the winners by far were the R&M with a Bosch motor and a moulton with the ARCC motor. My thinking is that I would get something (maybe one of the rather nice Ridgebacks?) with a STEPS motor so that I would have a spare battery for touring, either the solo or tandem.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: Kim on March 29, 2019, 09:10:33 pm
Of the ones I test-rode I found the Bosch felt more natural, but STEPS did a slightly better job of getting the bike up to speed quickly.  Which is best is going to depend on personal preferences and why you're looking at e-bikes in the first place.  (My friend greatly preferred the quick acceleration of the STEPS, and if I were hauling cargo I'd want the same.)  Also pay attention to how the system behaves as you reach the 25kph limit: Backing off gracefully limits your maximum speed slightly, but means you don't end up oscillating between coast and burn (some of the low-end systems seem really bad at this, presumably because most people don't use the limiting).
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: CAMRAMan on March 30, 2019, 09:27:52 am
I have had rear hub drive, front hub drive and BB drive ebikes and by far the best is the Bosch BB drive system. It is powerful and the torque sensing is great. Mine is one of the less powerful drives they do, but it is still capable of propelling me along at illegal speeds smoothly. The main downside being the extremely high prices they charge for the batteries and chargers.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on March 30, 2019, 04:09:48 pm
the 25kph limit:
Surprised at such sloppiness in you, Kim.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: closetleftie on April 12, 2019, 09:16:50 am
Hi Wow,

Convert your Raven? www.wooshbikes.co.uk is in your neck of the woods - they sell conversion kits and look pretty sensible. I'm planning on converting a single speed commuter with a rear hub kit but a centre-drive conversion would work very well for a geared tourer.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: Tigerrr on July 10, 2019, 08:13:24 am
Another vote for conversion with whoosh bikes. I have built 2 of theirs and they were great at £750 instead of >£2000. You should easily be able to convert your raven. My last had a 500w motor and I never got it to top speed as above 25mph on a halfords BSO was just fine for anything I needed. Whoosh very helpful - they even have the conversion I did as a 'stock' made up bike.
Currently riding a trek powerfly ebike which is very good. Got a deal for £1500.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: velosam on December 16, 2019, 11:17:10 am
I succumbed to one as well.  A Raleigh strada -  hub gears and steps motor.

Despite being a hybrid  - it has a fairly aggressive riding position, which works for commuting but not pottering.

While my commute times have not really varied that much (more because of the distance 17 miles  - so the the variation is around 10 minutes) - has made a big difference to my energy levels and that I am not so stressed when getting home at night and utterly drained.

Transition at 25kph is fine when using Eco but more jerky when using normal or high (and I do use both despite not having large hills).

The motor is fine at 50Nm but I suspect carrying a load will slow it down.

I also haven't really figured out how to use the ebike properly, as my natural pace is bang on 16mph and it means I either have to slack off a bit or increase my power so as not to drop in and out of the motor.

Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: Regulator on December 18, 2019, 03:15:59 pm
I have a Kalkhoff Sahel i8 (a 2019 version with a 603Wh battery):

(https://www.kalkhoff-bikes.com/media/enhanced/1100-100-false/catalog/product//2/3/23888_kh0070002v2018_2019_20_cp_gre_090_pro_sahel-compact-i8.png)

It always raises a smile and I'm planning to tour on it next year.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: fruitcake on February 24, 2020, 10:26:58 am
My experience with an electric Bullitt with auto gears was that the motor was most useful for accelerating from traffic lights but gear shifting integration was poor. Basically the assistance tapered off too rapidly at 15mph which meant I suddenly found myself in too tall a gear. That triggered a gear change a few seconds later, but only after the bike had slowed and the motor had kicked in again. That loop repeated as my speed oscillated between 14mph to 16mph. And so I rode no faster than 14mph. I'm told Shimano have improved the program in recent versions of Steps.

Some kind of manual control over the timing of the e-assist would have helped avoid the feedback loop.

Still, I was won over by the concept of e-assist because it was so useful in accelerating from traffic lights, and the ride was enjoyable.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: bludger on February 24, 2020, 10:54:17 am
Someone at work had an ARCC unit on their bike which was apparently terrific. So it was good to see that there is now a brommie kit which is apparently very good, reviewed at https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/reviews/electric-conversion-kits/arcc-e-pod-brompton-2317

... and then I realised that this meant it was £1.799 for a retrofit only, and you need to factor in the cost of a Brompton into it too!

I appreciate that technology isn't cheap and you could probably wrangle this on a cycle to work deal somehow but good grief.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: Kim on February 24, 2020, 12:37:10 pm
Someone at work had an ARCC unit on their bike which was apparently terrific. So it was good to see that there is now a brommie kit which is apparently very good, reviewed at https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/reviews/electric-conversion-kits/arcc-e-pod-brompton-2317

... and then I realised that this meant it was £1.799 for a retrofit only, and you need to factor in the cost of a Brompton into it too!

I appreciate that technology isn't cheap and you could probably wrangle this on a cycle to work deal somehow but good grief.

I saw one in the flesh on the last Origami ride.  A thing of beauty and a joy forever.  The owner considered it a fair price to pay to be able to keep cycling.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: fruitcake on February 24, 2020, 02:38:22 pm
For many folk, this would be less than they'd spend on public transport during the life of the bike / battery, as I reckon utility cyclists are the biggest market for this tech. Going to work and going shopping specifically.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: bludger on February 24, 2020, 02:54:13 pm
Oh for sure I don't doubt it's not worth it in the long run and it looks like it's excellent quality. It's just such a pity that such a pricetag would immediately elicit a HOW MUCH???? reaction compared to a car. Anyway...
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: orienteer on February 24, 2020, 05:44:15 pm
An electric car is considerably more  :demon:

The ARCC system is very good and the company gives excellent service should any problem arise.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: Adam on February 24, 2020, 08:45:18 pm
I was impressed with the Swytch conversion kits when I was chatting to them at the Birmingham Cycle show last year. 
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on February 24, 2020, 11:03:20 pm
Oh, what’s that? There seems to be a Tern Vektron P7i over there in the hallway. How did that happen?!

Anyway, that’s the new commuter and general ute. Bosch mid drive, Active Line, the basic one I think. Chosen after much dithering. As well as being foldable, and e-, it needed to suit my partner who is much smaller than me. It’s a well thought out machine that rides really well on London’s clapped out roads. Comes with everything on it - even the (wired-in) lights are good. Saving me a fortune in travel costs and not buying the stuff I buy when I go to work by tube.

However, if small folded size is important to you, the Brompton is still the benchmark.

One general e-bike thing to be aware of - weight. These can be heavy machines - even folders. The Vektron is an awkward lift when folded, for example, and is best suited to situations where you only need to fold it right at the end of your journey. It’s worth actually lifting the bike, trying to carry it, and considering how often you might need to lift it when choosing one. Same for anyone else that might have to lift it.

Or you’ll put your back out.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: hubner on February 25, 2020, 11:08:04 pm
£3,000 and 22.5kg!

Perhaps ebikes should be thought of as a low powered moped/motorbike wrt their weight and price.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: Kim on February 25, 2020, 11:20:40 pm
£3,000 and 22.5kg!

Perhaps ebikes should be thought of as a low powered moped/motorbike wrt their weight and price.

Would my touring bike also qualify?
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on February 26, 2020, 08:36:16 am
£3,000 and 22.5kg!

Perhaps ebikes should be thought of as a low powered moped/motorbike wrt their weight and price.

Would my touring bike also qualify?
Yes! If we consider you as the motor...  ;D

I never paid more than a grand for a motorbike (but it was all a very long time ago when I was young and penniless) and even the most minimalistic moped weighs quite a bit more than 22.5kg. Mind you, I never had an electric motorbike.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on February 26, 2020, 12:35:17 pm
£3,000 and 22.5kg!

Perhaps ebikes should be thought of as a low powered moped/motorbike wrt their weight and price.

Some of the cobbled-together ones that whine past me could be thought of as low powered-moped/motorbikes wrt their speed  :hand: and not requiring any pedalling.

I'm fairly sure I saw one with front and back hub motors the other day which has got to be an interesting ride.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on February 26, 2020, 09:03:20 pm
And on that very note, today:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51647068

Quote
Under the law, e-bikes which are fitted with an electric motor can only be driven without a licence or insurance if their power is limited and if the motor automatically switches off at speeds above 15.5 mph.
The court heard Mr Hanlon's bike was capable of going double that speed and as such should have been categorised as a motorbike.

Essentially if it’s not legal you’ll be treated as operating a motor vehicle, you ain’t going to be insured, and as well as the harm caused and the penalties, you could be pursued for costs for the rest of your natural.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on March 02, 2020, 10:28:49 pm
The e-bike rider was acquitted:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51707616

I’m surprised at the verdict. Not at fault in his manner of driving.

Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: Kim on March 02, 2020, 10:32:12 pm
Acquitted of careless driving.  Does he still get prosecuted for riding an illegal motorcycle?
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on March 02, 2020, 10:37:04 pm
I don’t see any indication of that happening.

Odd. Nevertheless, licence or not, the jury seem to have treated Hanlon as a motorist in that they applied the same thinking as they often do with motorist / cyclist cases: protect the “motorist” and to hell with the victim.

Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: CAMRAMan on March 04, 2020, 08:02:50 am
My Cube Kathmandu Pro is a very nice machine. I fitted the Badass dongle to it, but it really is too fast for town use in Sport mode. On an empty road I got up to 26MPH and there was more to come. In Tour mode, I actually have to work and still averaged 17MPH on my commute. It does bugger the range up though.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on March 07, 2020, 03:10:23 pm
Has that got the Cx motor?

I’ve looked at those dongles. It’s a pity there isn’t one that simply lifts the cut-off point by 5 km/h or so, that would do me. The level of torque is fine as it is.

And I don’t really want my speed or recorded distance messed up, which these gadgets seem to do.

I just use Tour mode on mine. The higher levels just get you up to the cut off point more quickly. I find I make smoother progress in Eco or Tour.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: CAMRAMan on March 07, 2020, 03:20:56 pm
Yes, the Performance CX with a Powerpack 500 battery. It has loads more torque than my previous Active Line one.

By putting it into Tour mode with the Badass dongle, I find it offers a sensible level of assistance and doesn't let the top speed go to silly levels. Anything over 20MPH and you run the risk of having motorists pull out in front of you 'because bikes don't go that fast, do they?'

There are other derestriction options available, as you probably know, but a lot of them require some sort of rewiring.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on March 07, 2020, 06:00:05 pm

There are other derestriction options available, as you probably know, but a lot of them require some sort of rewiring.

It was those that I was looking at, ones that need the motor cover removed to plug in. I hadn’t been aware of the type that you have, attached to the wheel speed sensor itself.

Unlikely I'll go down that route. The legalities concern me. It would be good if the entire motor unit was upgradeable at some point in the future.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: CAMRAMan on March 07, 2020, 07:16:26 pm
It was also the legalities that made me realise that 25+MPH was going to attract the wrong kind of attention.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on March 08, 2020, 12:17:21 pm
The French arecracking down on derestriction - all ebikes, not just eMTBs:

https://ebike-mtb.com/en/france-bans-illegal-emtb-tuning/

Quote
anyone modifying their ebike to exceed the maximum authorized speed – currently 25 km/h for electric bicycles and 45 km/h for speed pedelecs – could now have their bike impounded, face one year in prison and fines of up to €30,000.

(What’s a speed pedelec?)

The article also refers to the Hanlon case discussed above, and its odd conclusion. The legislation also affects those who manufacture dongles etc. for tuning.



Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on March 08, 2020, 12:48:22 pm
Some countries have two categories of e-bikes, with different performance requirements and rider responsibilities.

https://www.swov.nl/en/facts-figures/factsheet/pedelecs-and-speed-pedelecs
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: CAMRAMan on March 08, 2020, 01:27:58 pm
A speed pedelec is an unrestricted ebike. The rider has to register the bike with DVLA, so it has to be type approved, insure it, tax it and wear a helmet as well as displaying a reg. plate. Hardly anyone has bothered because of the hassle.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: Salvatore on March 08, 2020, 02:31:23 pm
A speed pedelec is an unrestricted ebike. The rider has to register the bike with DVLA, so it has to be type approved, insure it, tax it and wear a helmet as well as displaying a reg. plate. Hardly anyone has bothered because of the hassle.

I saw one such a few weeks ago. It looked like a normal-ish push bike with E-gubbins, but what stood out was the big registration plate on the back. I made a note of the VRM and the DVLA website revealed that it was a Sparta.

ETA: It may have been a Spartamet with a 30cc gasoline engine, so off topic.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on March 08, 2020, 02:35:02 pm
A speed pedelec isn’t unrestricted. It is restricted to 45 km/h, rather than 25 km/h. Similarly for power.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: CAMRAMan on March 08, 2020, 06:00:14 pm
Something off the shelf doesn't come cheap: https://urbanebikes.com/products/md11-speed-pedelec?variant=31403581177920
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on March 24, 2020, 10:52:06 pm
This is the gist of the e-bike thing for me:

Quote
E-bikes take away the obsession with momentum.

As uttered by Timothy Mallett:

https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/news/utterly-brilliant-an-interview-with-timmy-mallet-on-all-things-e-bike-2343


Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: Kim on March 24, 2020, 11:51:36 pm
That's an utterly brilliant way of putting it!
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on March 25, 2020, 07:37:25 pm
That's an utterly brilliant way of putting it!

I’m really glad you think so too!

Also: headwinds. Or strong winds in general. Usually a factor in the “will I, won’t I” decision to ride. On an e-bike, unless damage to buildings is occurring, I really don’t care.
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: velosam on March 31, 2020, 08:10:31 pm
Pretty much as they said. You just get on and ride.

Its a bit odd because when it starts feeling tough, I need to remind myself to take it easier and let the motor take the strain!
Title: Re: E-bike experience
Post by: CAMRAMan on April 01, 2020, 03:42:02 pm
I find it strangely satisfying to sail past lycra-clad riders going uphill when I'm in Badass Turbo mode and doing naughty MPH. They won't have heard the motor by the time I'm well clear of them and will be wondering how that fat git could possibly be going so fast.

The one thing I find I have to avoid is a flashing front light at night. Motons assume that's a bike and will cut in front of me at junctions accordingly, even though I'm going quickly. My front light is powerful enough to mimic a motorcycle's and motons then treat me a little better.