Author Topic: Screw through rim....OK to ride?  (Read 2743 times)

Screw through rim....OK to ride?
« on: 11 November, 2018, 09:05:10 pm »
Out on the bike today and a huge screw went through the tyre, through the rim bed and just broke the surface on the other side of the rim. It's like the rim has two valve holes now!! The side walls don't appear to be damaged. Would you plug the hole and use the wheel or is it too much of a risk and fit for the bin only?

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Screw through rim....OK to ride?
« Reply #1 on: 11 November, 2018, 09:08:13 pm »
If the rim is a fairly robust design and still true, why not keep using it? I'd ream the holes a size up to minimise residual cracking though.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Screw through rim....OK to ride?
« Reply #2 on: 11 November, 2018, 09:09:49 pm »
How big is the hole?  I think I'd drill it before plugging - use the smallest drill for which you can find a suitable plug, and which leaves a neat round hole with no jagged edges.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Re: Screw through rim....OK to ride?
« Reply #3 on: 11 November, 2018, 09:10:57 pm »
It seems OK. I had to boot the tyre and rode it home. Just don't want it to give out on me miles from home, or worse cause an accident.

For info, it's a Fulcrum Racing 5

The hole is about the size of a valve hole.....the screw was massive!!

Re: Screw through rim....OK to ride?
« Reply #4 on: 11 November, 2018, 10:47:20 pm »
This is what happened to me, years ago. Tyre, tube, rim and rim-tape gone. I gave up and rebuilt the wheel.


Re: Screw through rim....OK to ride?
« Reply #5 on: 12 November, 2018, 12:15:28 am »
wow!    I thought I'd seen most things but I have never seen that before!

FWIW the rim sees a large compressive force in the circumferential direction (which is about half a tonne, coming from the spoke tension). The rim also sees local stresses from the spokes (only of concern if you are within about 3/4" of the spoke hole) and various bending stresses when the wheel is loaded.

The bending stresses in the rim can initiate cracks from any hole (valve hole and/or spoke holes) if the spoke tension is too low; the bending tends to produce tensile stresses around these features and these more easily initiate fatigue cracks.  The rim simply flexes more than normal if the spokes are not tight enough.

So anyway provided it isn't adjacent to a spoke,  the 'new valve hole' probably isn't a major threat to the integrity of the rim per se. However because of the way it has been made, there may be crack-like features at the edges of the hole; these are best removed (dressed) by drilling or filing, else they may propagate.

By all means plug the dressed hole with something (eg a wooden dowel that is glued in place, else the rim may fill up with rainwater) and if you continue to use the wheel, keep an eye on this region for any cracks that may initiate at the hole. But beyond that I wouldn't worry overly about it; the new hole isn't so much different from any of the other holes already in the rim....

cheers

Torslanda

  • Professional Gobshite
  • Just a tart for retro kit . . .
    • John's Bikes
Re: Screw through rim....OK to ride?
« Reply #6 on: 12 November, 2018, 01:36:17 am »
Short version. You just made an extra spoke hole in a very light wheel.

Throw it away. A wheelchair is for ever.
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Screw through rim....OK to ride?
« Reply #7 on: 12 November, 2018, 11:20:58 am »
Throw it away. A wheelchair is for ever.
Until you get a screw through the rim of your wheelchair...
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Re: Screw through rim....OK to ride?
« Reply #8 on: 12 November, 2018, 12:33:56 pm »
My initial reaction was "why not?" However having looked at the Fulcrum site I see that these are lightweight, low spoke count wheels which already carry a max weight limit, even if this is relatively high at 100kgs+ (most of the target clientele would I suspect be considerably lighter!), so I would be more inclined to Torslanda's viewpoint. They are probably sufficiently stressed when entire, damage isn't going to help them!

What would I do in this situation? The chances of me having a wheel like that are so slim the question is infinitely hypothetical!!

Torslanda

  • Professional Gobshite
  • Just a tart for retro kit . . .
    • John's Bikes
Re: Screw through rim....OK to ride?
« Reply #9 on: 12 November, 2018, 01:35:11 pm »
Yeah. That was the point . . .
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

Re: Screw through rim....OK to ride?
« Reply #10 on: 12 November, 2018, 01:38:56 pm »
I know a new rim has to be paid for but in the time it would take me to effect a sound repair of the type described I think even I could build a new wheel, though Tors may disagree!

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Screw through rim....OK to ride?
« Reply #11 on: 12 November, 2018, 05:27:04 pm »
i've seen three instances with the screw/nail going through like that - all on rear wheels, when most likely the front tyre flicked the nail in the most offensive position. i know one guy (clubmate) keeps riding the wheels, not sure about the other two. it might be safe to ride, but personally it would be bugging me and i'd be looking at replacing the rim/wheel.

Re: Screw through rim....OK to ride?
« Reply #12 on: 12 November, 2018, 05:56:07 pm »
Replace.
End of.

Re: Screw through rim....OK to ride?
« Reply #13 on: 12 November, 2018, 07:01:10 pm »
can you easily buy a replacement fulcrum rim, or equivalent?   IIRC most Fulcrum 5 models use triplet spoking in the rear wheel, which means that finding a rear rim that will work as a replacement is more difficult than normal. On the plus side ISTR that most fulcrum 5 models use round spokes not 'aero' ones so they at a bit easier to source anyway.

If you can't buy matching rims for a lot of wheelsets, or they are only available for stupid money, the wheelset becomes a throwaway item. If the wheelset is £100 a go maybe this is OK but if it is three times that it sticks in one's craw somewhat. 

FWIW I still prefer a 'conventional' wheelset (e.g. a set with 32 or 36 spokes front and rear) for training/commuting duties, since there is stuff-all 'performance gain' to be had and at least those wheels are repairable if a rim gets broken or worn.

If you insist on using a minimal spoke wheelset in those duties I see little advantage in buying anything more expensive than a basic shimano wheelset; the weight difference between those and more expensive models is mostly in the hubs, where it makes stuff-all difference.

These wheelsets are often available for less than £100. However if you wreck a rim, MADison want over half that for the rim alone and then you have to build it. Cray-zeeeee....

cheers

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Screw through rim....OK to ride?
« Reply #14 on: 12 November, 2018, 07:47:30 pm »
shimano factory wheels are cheap for a reason: heavy, difficult to mount tyres as there is no deeper channel in the rim, the freehub skips, and spokes break sometimes. shimano makes a lot of great products, their wheels are not quite there yet (ok-ish for the price though).

Re: Screw through rim....OK to ride?
« Reply #15 on: 12 November, 2018, 08:20:46 pm »
I've had a look at the wheel tonight.....the hole made by the screw is between the valve hole and the next spoke hole but rather than being in the middle of the rim bed it's to one side right up against the sidewall. I can't see any cracks in the rim surface but I'm wondering where there are any I can't see. I'm also not comfortable with it being right up against the sidewall. Will drop it in the LBS the week and see what they say. It looks like rims are available but not showing in stock.

Torslanda

  • Professional Gobshite
  • Just a tart for retro kit . . .
    • John's Bikes
Re: Screw through rim....OK to ride?
« Reply #16 on: 12 November, 2018, 08:23:10 pm »
Fulcrum 5s can be re-rimmed. It can be arranged thru i-ride. They're low spoke (16 IIRC) and the tension is quite high. Fulcrum is a Campagnolo brand.

Not cheap - but less than a replacement pair. They're in the 300 quid RRP bracket so probably worth doing.
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

Torslanda

  • Professional Gobshite
  • Just a tart for retro kit . . .
    • John's Bikes
Re: Screw through rim....OK to ride?
« Reply #17 on: 12 November, 2018, 08:28:41 pm »
Quote
Will drop it in the LBS the week and see what they say.

Don't ride it. I stand by what I said upthread.
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

Re: Screw through rim....OK to ride?
« Reply #18 on: 12 November, 2018, 08:36:56 pm »
shimano factory wheels are cheap for a reason: heavy, difficult to mount tyres as there is no deeper channel in the rim, the freehub skips, and spokes break sometimes. shimano makes a lot of great products, their wheels are not quite there yet (ok-ish for the price though).

as I mentioned the 'extra weight' is almost all in the hubs (about 300g a pair or so vs cheap cartridge bearing hubs with a (rather fragile) aluminium freehub body, which is what you get in most 'lighter' wheelsets).  The rims and spokes etc in even basic shimano wheelsets appear to be about the same weight as a lot of other wheelsets, and they dominate the way the wheelset feels.

For the past few model iterations the rims in the cheaper shimano wheels have had a full-width plastic rim tape; this is springy enough that you don't always see the depth of the rim well when the tyre is off. The well itself isn't wildly different from the well in lots of other rims. If your tyres are a tight fit then it is usually possible to fit a narrower/thinner (eg self-adhesive cloth) tape and this gives more slack where the tyre beads sit and makes fitting them easier.

IMHO most hubs ought to be serviced before they are used and this counts double for shimano hubs.  IME the freehub bodies are almost 100% reliable (even in the cheap wheels/hubs) provided they are adequately lubricated.  It takes less than five minutes to add a shot of the right SFG to the bearings of shimano hubs; this keeps the seals, the main bearings, and the freehub body sweet. If you do that once a year or so, and keep them adjusted properly (*), they will last virtually indefinitely.

If you want not to break spokes, it is necessary to stress-relieve most factory-built wheels.  The current (cheap) RS11 wheels use (stupid) straight pull spokes but many older models of basic shimano wheelsets used conventional J-bend spokes which are at least easy to source/replace.

(*) the correct adjustment for any cup and cone hub is of course to have a little free play in the bearings that just disappears as the QR is fully tightened. If there is no free play with the QR loose, the bearings will see an immense (and highly destructive) preload once the wheel is installed.

They are, as you say, not bad for the money; IME most of the possible shortcomings are easy to overcome. [FWIW I suspect that many of the problems that folk experience are provoked by the 'they are only cheap so it isn't worth looking after them' syndrome; this guarantees problems down the line with most equipment.... ::-)]   The one you can't get over is when the rim is wrecked, it isn't normally cost effective to replace it.  Just like lots of other throwaway wheels. 

cheers

Re: Screw through rim....OK to ride?
« Reply #19 on: 17 November, 2018, 01:17:32 pm »
Just back from the LBS.....not able to get a replacement rim, no single wheels kicking around at the distributors and the distributors don't even have a pair in stock!

Guess it's going to be a different set of wheels from the Fulcrums.

Torslanda

  • Professional Gobshite
  • Just a tart for retro kit . . .
    • John's Bikes
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

Re: Screw through rim....OK to ride?
« Reply #21 on: 17 November, 2018, 04:11:21 pm »
Just back from the LBS.....not able to get a replacement rim, no single wheels kicking around at the distributors and the distributors don't even have a pair in stock!

Guess it's going to be a different set of wheels from the Fulcrums.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fulcrum-Racing-Rim-wheel-700c-road-bike/302954478450

any good?

cheers