Author Topic: Short Cranks  (Read 3349 times)

Sigurd Mudtracker

Short Cranks
« on: 24 May, 2010, 11:36:56 am »
Having with the better weather put in more recumbent miles, I am considering shorter cranks.  I've read a bit about the purported advantages and whilst I do occasionally get a bit of knee pain, I thought the main advantages for me (on the Trice) would be giving me a little more heel clearance above the Tarmac and hopefully help me to spin a bit faster.  I don't have a cadence computer set up on any of my 'bents, but it certainly feels that I pedal more slowly than my usual DF rate of 95-120 rpm.

Although there are a few "rules" about as to how long your cranks should be, the HPV fraternity seems to opt for "as short as possible but not too short".  I have 170mm on my trike and thought 150mm would be a reasonable step.  I note that SJS sell some cranks in a variety of lengths for £70.  Highpath could cut down my current cranks for £40 but then I'd have none for a month and no way to go back if it didn't work.  I think using bolt on crank shorteners would just play havoc with my joints by increasing the distance between my feet.

Anyone know of any other short triples, 110/74mm BCD?  And does anyone have any experience of what happens with chainrings when you shrink the cranks?  Some have indicated that they have needed to move to smaller chainrings, but with a 24T inner I'm not sure that I can go much smaller!

Re: Short Cranks
« Reply #1 on: 24 May, 2010, 12:03:58 pm »
ICE do a 152mm crankset to fit a square taper bottom bracket:

Recumbent Trikes and Recumbent Bikes - ICE - Accessories

Not 110/74, though. And there's no longer a price list on their site, not that I can find, anyway.

An alternative would be to get a 175mm 130/74 crankset (e.g. Tiagra 4503, 53/39/30) and have Mike Burrows shorten it for you. He'll charge about £35, IIRC, and does a very good and prompt job.

110/74 chainsets are a bit thin on the ground these days. The Stronglight Impact triple is excellent (it's actually made by Sugino, and therefore handily uses a JIS square taper bottom bracket), but whether it is amenable to shortening I'm not sure.
Profit or planet?

Sigurd Mudtracker

Re: Short Cranks
« Reply #2 on: 24 May, 2010, 01:30:33 pm »
Going by the ICE price lists (in the "Downloads" section) it may be £112 and comes with 42/32/22 rings.

Biggsy

  • A bodge too far
  • Twit @iceblinker
    • My stuff on eBay
Re: Short Cranks
« Reply #3 on: 24 May, 2010, 01:52:13 pm »
Are there any 'bent-specific reasons why short cranks are sometimes preferred?
●●●  My eBay items  ●●●  Twitter  ●●●

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Short Cranks
« Reply #4 on: 24 May, 2010, 02:17:09 pm »
Short cranks reduce the size of front fairings and can reduce interference between heels and front wheel or knees and handlebars.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Short Cranks
« Reply #5 on: 24 May, 2010, 02:24:33 pm »
I use 125mm cranks on my recumbent, a Challenge Taifun. Mike Burrows cut mine down and I'll echo harrumph's comments, he does a very good job.

Prior to making the leap full time I used some SJS adjustable crank shorteners to play with various lengths, and this was very helpful when trying to settle on a final length. I'd recommend a period of experimentation to anyone considering a move to shorter cranks, if the right hardware can be begged or borrowed.

Your gearing will definitely change when you lop a chunk off your cranks. You'll have less leverage and so it'll feel like you're pushing a bigger gear (in fact, you will be). If you want to retain your current effective gearing, then you're right to expect to have to change something, and that chainrings are the obvious candidate. As you said though, you don't have much room for manouvre, what with your current 24 tooth ring.

For me, my bike was low geared as it was (due to 406 sized wheels), so the new crank length gave me the extra top end that I needed, and moving from a double to a triple with granny ring retained the low end.

You'll not be able to work out the exact adjustment you're going to need until you decide what new length of crank to plump for. The more you chop off, the bigger the difference you'll need to compensate for.

Like you, one of my reasons for switching was to see if shorter cranks might help with my knee pain. As it happened it made no difference for me, but of course you may have more success.

You should definitely find that you spin faster, and more smoothly. This comes naturally because your feet have less distance to travel per revolution, but I found this a mixed blessing. Whilst spinning is more fluid, I also felt robbed of some old fashioned grunt. I'm a big bloke, with big thighs, and always had the habit of giving the pedals some welly when I needed extra umph for hills or acceleration. With significantly shorter cranks, it feels much harder to translate blunt force at the pedal into momentum, so you may find you need to adapt your style somewhat. If you need more power, you have to develop it by spinning up faster, rather than mashing out a few big strokes. Unless you can adapt your pedalling style, you may find yourself pushing harder on the cranks to compensate, and that might be counterproductive for your knee pain. Just something to bear in mind.

*edit*

Oh yes, and remember that when you shorten your cranks, you'll want to also experiment with different boom length. Most likely you'll end up tweaking it a little further out, to keep your leg extension the same.


Re: Short Cranks
« Reply #6 on: 24 May, 2010, 09:51:47 pm »
Anyone know of any other short triples, 110/74mm BCD?  And does anyone have any experience of what happens with chainrings when you shrink the cranks?  Some have indicated that they have needed to move to smaller chainrings, but with a 24T inner I'm not sure that I can go much smaller!

My experience would say the same person wants slightly lower gearing, probably nearly as much as the ratio change in length.  i.e. Reduce crank length by 12%, reduce chainring by 8-12% ?

Don't think you can get less than 24T on 74mm?  That's why short crank chainsets are often mtb ones, I suspect.  Or, to answer your first question directly: no, not that I know of.  :-\

I shopped round for a 20 quid crankset to try it out, then shortened by Mike Burrows.  Total cost inc postage was only 50.

Biggsy

  • A bodge too far
  • Twit @iceblinker
    • My stuff on eBay
Re: Short Cranks
« Reply #7 on: 24 May, 2010, 10:11:11 pm »
You can't go any smaller than 24T on 74mm.... EDIT: without special stuff!

Sheldon Brown's Bicycle Gear Calculator shows the exact effect of crank length on gearing.
●●●  My eBay items  ●●●  Twitter  ●●●

Re: Short Cranks
« Reply #8 on: 25 May, 2010, 09:07:14 am »
Sheldon Brown's Bicycle Gear Calculator shows the exact effect of crank length on gearing.

I understand the mechanical gearing, but don't believe the effect on pedalling dynamics is quite that exact.  I don't think reducing crank length by a factor 15/17 means I pedal at exactly 17/15 higher rpm, with the same force and speed at the pedals as before.

My experience would say I rev nearly that much, but a fraction lower, and increase pedal force by a small amount to compensate.  The latter doesn't increase knee trouble overall because of the reduction in angle range which makes more difference.

I am using Sheldon's gain ratios to plan my gearing; I think it's the best easy approximation to the change in crank length, but I think "exact" may be misleading.

Biggsy

  • A bodge too far
  • Twit @iceblinker
    • My stuff on eBay
Re: Short Cranks
« Reply #9 on: 25 May, 2010, 09:24:13 am »
I didn't mean it accounts for all effects of crank length changes (which are complex and multifactorial), but it will give an exact gain ratio.
●●●  My eBay items  ●●●  Twitter  ●●●

iddu

  • Are we there yet?
Re: Short Cranks
« Reply #10 on: 25 May, 2010, 09:28:02 am »
Don't think you can get less than 24T on 74mm? 
clicky
I'd offer you some moral support - but I have questionable morals.

Sigurd Mudtracker

Re: Short Cranks
« Reply #11 on: 30 May, 2010, 11:51:21 am »
Having measured carefully, I discover that the chainset is 130/74 instead of 110/74 - that means I need to factor in the price of a couple of rings and pushes the price up towards £100.  With due regard to the advice above I wonder if a pair of Thorn's Crank Shorteners might be worth playing with for experimental purposes.  Downsides are the Ugly factor and the fact that I'm increasing the Q factor (effectively pedal width) by a couple of centimetres - but I might be able to flog them after I've decided whether this is the way to go or not.

Re: Short Cranks
« Reply #12 on: 30 May, 2010, 02:52:35 pm »
With due regard to the advice above I wonder if a pair of Thorn's Crank Shorteners might be worth playing with for experimental purposes.  Downsides are the Ugly factor and the fact that I'm increasing the Q factor (effectively pedal width) by a couple of centimetres - but I might be able to flog them after I've decided whether this is the way to go or not.

I still have the Thorn shorteners I used when experimenting myself with crank length. I bought them with the same thought as you, use temporarily to play around with and see how different lengths feel, then sell on. However, because my bits box has the gravitational pull of a black hole, I never got around to the selling on part.

Let me know if you're interested in buying and I'll dig them out and take a few photo's.

I didn't ever worry about the ugly aesthetics (and they are ugly), or the Q factor, as the shortners were only a short term exercise.

Sigurd Mudtracker

Re: Short Cranks
« Reply #13 on: 30 May, 2010, 05:25:52 pm »
Gruff, I've sent you a PM