Help ID my Holdsworth Road Path frame

[Shiloh_1862]

Hi...my first post!....Possibly an interesting one!.....Just bought a Holdsworth Road Path Frame but don't know anything about it.

I have done some research and it is inconclusive.....appreciate any pointers etc.....i'll tell you what i've got and what i can do.

Frame number is: 041592....found under the BB and the fork steerer.....but then things get a bit muddy.........according to what i've found the Zephyr was the Road-Path frame made by Holdsworth but reading their catalogues, the model was phased out in 1961.....the person i bought it from said it took a 27.2mm seatpost and short fitting brakes....nut not AK........i have not checked the seatpost diameter as i don't have a seatpost!......I will be doing that tonight at a friend's house and will report back.

The lugs are not special....a bit curly but nothing special and that includes the square fork crown.....the rear bridge is straight and not curved..both are drilled.

The decal says 531 tubing.....and has the TI address on it...same on the fork decals......this implies 531 plain gauge tubing which would normally have a seatpost of 26.4mm.....and i use the work 'usually' carefully....furthermore the decal was used between 1977 and 1984.....Did Holdworth [Holdsworthy.....as it has one of their labels on the frame...using the Oakfield Road address......this factory did not open until 1975]

A further twist is that on the steerer is stamped Reynolds Butted tubing.

I do not know if the decals are original or if it was repainted by Holdsworth.........i don't know if it has butted or plain gauge 531 tubing.....Anybody got any idea what i might have.......Seatpost size to follow

Any advice or opinions welcome......i have looked at the Holdsworth website.....http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nkilgariff/Holdsworth.htm and classic lightweights.......thanks in advance for any help.....could it be something else badged as a Holdsworth......it does not have a metal headbadge....has a decal type headbadge.

Pics to be found here.....http://www.flickr.com/photos/33024988@N03/?saved=1    [HRP 1-11 are the relevant pics]

[Shiloh_1862]

Pictures of the frame have now been added.

[hubner]

Maybe it's an older fame (50s or 60s) that was resprayed in the 70s.

[Shiloh_1862]

The only Holdsworth Road Path frame i can find is the Zephyr...which was around in the 1950s...up to 1961 but that tended to have a curved rear brake bridge...lugs could be specified..eg Nervex [which this one does not have]....so that can be a mystery.....and it is possible it was resprayed and had the wrong decals attached.....the seatpost test will be useful and that will be reported back here this evening......i cannot find any such model made during the period 1977-1984.....i thought such frames were 'out of fashion'.....unless someone on this forum knows otherwise.....but it would be odd i would have thought [and someone correct me, if i am wrong]...to have butted forks but plain gauge tubing in the rest of the frame....frame and forks have the same reference number as quoted above.

[hubner]

The frame colour and the "Holdsworth" transfers seem to be similar to the Elan model from the early 80s:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nkilgariff/HoldsModelPages/Elan.htm

My guess is your frame was refinished by Holdsworth around that time. The frame might not even be a Holdsworth.

[tatanab]

I think it is an early to mid 70s Holdsworthy badged as  Holdsworth  "I cannot remember the model".  Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, or Freddy Grubb "cannot remember the model name" were also available.  If I can remember the model name I will add it later.
 
It is 531 plain gauge and the age is given away by the 531 fork blades.  Sometime in the 70s there was a glut of 531 blades which is why otherwise ordinary frames can be found with 531 forks which makes some people think the frame must be too.

I've had two of the Claud Butler variants over the years and a very nice ride they were.

[Shiloh_1862]

The frame colour and the "Holdsworth" transfers seem to be similar to the Elan model from the early 80s:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nkilgariff/HoldsModelPages/Elan.htm

My guess is your frame was refinished by Holdsworth around that time. The frame might not even be a Holdsworth.

It does indeed but made in the 1980s or refinished in the 1980s?....similar decals etc and fits in with the 1977-1984 timeline of the Reynolds decal.

[Shiloh_1862]

I think it is an early to mid 70s Hodsworthy badged as  Holdsworth  "I cannot remember the model".  Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, or Freddy Grubb "cannot remember the model name" were also available.  If I can remember the model name I will add it later.
 
It is 531 plain gauge and the age is given away by the 531 fork blades.  Sometime in the 70s there was a glut of 531 blades which is why otherwise ordinary frames can be found with 531 forks which makes some people think the frame must be too.

I've had two of the Claud Butler variants over the years and a very nice ride they were.

The frame is 531 because the decal says so....but is plain gauge?......or are you suggesting....the forks might be butted but the main tubes might be plain gauge? What of the rear stays?....The steerer is stamped Reynolds Butted tubing...If as the seller suggested the seatpost is 27.2mm and i will be able to confirm that later this evening.....would you still assert it is plain gauge 531 or DB?......The CB Olympic was more elaborate and i believe 531 DB.

[Shiloh_1862]

I think it is an early to mid 70s Hodsworthy badged as  Holdsworth  "I cannot remember the model".  Claud Butler Olympic Sprint, or Freddy Grubb "cannot remember the model name" were also available.  If I can remember the model name I will add it later.
 
It is 531 plain gauge and the age is given away by the 531 fork blades.  Sometime in the 70s there was a glut of 531 blades which is why otherwise ordinary frames can be found with 531 forks which makes some people think the frame must be too.

I've had two of the Claud Butler variants over the years and a very nice ride they were.

The frame is 531 because the decal says so....but is plain gauge?......or are you suggesting....the forks might be butted but the main tubes might be plain gauge? What of the rear stays?....The steerer is stamped Reynolds Butted tubing...If as the seller suggested the seatpost is 27.2mm and i will be able to confirm that later this evening.....would you still assert it is plain gauge 531 or DB?......The CB Olympic was more elaborate  possibly and i believe 531 DB.....but some similarity....and stopped being made in c1971....so could be one of those and refinished in the 1980s.

[Ian H]

It's a proper old track frame: round section fork blades and a hefty crown. Bikes were more general-purpose then, hence drillings for brakes and mudguards.

[tatanab]

The frame is 531 because the decal says so....but is plain gauge?......or are you suggesting....the forks might be butted but the main tubes might be plain gauge? What of the rear stays?....The steerer is stamped Reynolds Butted tubing...If as the seller suggested the seatpost is 27.2mm and i will be able to confirm that later this evening.....would you still assert it is plain gauge 531 or DB?......The CB Olympic was more elaborate and i believe 531 DB.

The CB Olympic Sprint up until the early 60s was more elaborate and DB.  By the late 60s when I got my first one, they were plain gauge with simpler lugs.  As I recall, the seat tube bore was 26.8 or was it 26,4, on both my frames.  I do not remember since it is 25 years since I sold the last one.  This site http://www.classicrendezvous.com/British_isles/Reynolds_gallery.htm shows the relevant transfers and I am certain mine was the Plain Gauge 3 main tubes, so seat stays were not 531.  Forks, as I wrote, there was a glut of 531 blades at one time (mid 70's maybe a little later).  Fork blades are not double butted anyway, always single butted.  This catalogue from 1971 http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nkilgariff/CBcats/Cat_71/CB1971_Cat.htm says 531 tubing for the Olympic and 531 butted tubing for the better frames. 

It's a proper old track frame: round section fork blades and a hefty crown. Bikes were more general-purpose then, hence drillings for brakes and mudguards.

I had a new frame built in 1986 which is a modern copy of the Olympic Sprint, round fork blades and mudguard clearance and all, but in 653 and for 700C.  With round fork blades and small diameter tubing it is a thing of grace an elegance versus the huge oversize tubing favoured today.

[tatanab]

Having expanded the photo with the 531 transfer, your frame is 531 plain guage 3 main tubes with undefined seat and chainstays.  Forks are 531 which makes it a late frame.  So for reasons explained above I'd say this is late seventies or whenever the fork blade glut was.  The reason I have adjusted my time estimate to late seventies is because I found a record of buying my second CB Olympic which was in 1976 and I know the forks were not claimed to be 531.

As I wrote, both of mine (the first was written off in a crash) were very nice rides indeed.  So enjoy what you have.

[Shiloh_1862]

The seat post is 26.8mm....so adds weight to the plain gauge argument....and would seem to be a CB-Holdsworth Olympic...badged as a Holdsworth in Elan colours.....only problem....the seller descibed it as 27.2mm....but also having a seat tube of 56cm.....but that is C2C...C2T is 58.5cm......so it is too big for me anyway......any takers???......back to the drawing board......thanks for all your input.....i'm a member of LFGSS and Retrobike.....but you chaps are the best......cheers.