Tonight, Charlotte rides a £30k electric bicycle...

[uphillbothways]

It doesn't matter how clear the directives are if no one assesses the vehicle against them.

As I said in my first post, we're just waiting for someone to die. These laws will be enforced, it's just a question of how many people will have to die for that to happen. I would very much like the answer to be "zero", but I don't hold out much hope.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I agree with Tim O's post. What I'm saying is no one has officially declared this machine a motorcycle because no one in the DfT (or whichever body would be responsible) has been asked to - which can be down to dodgy importers, but their dodginess is made easier by the design of the machine.

As for people dying - I hope not. Such tragedies often lead to snap decisions.

[Biggsy]

We shouldn't be against the manufacturers and importers because these bikes are legal at any speed on private land.  What gets used on the public roads comes down to individual responsibility.  It's possible that road-legal e-bikes will be very popular before anyone dies on a fast illegal one, then it's unlikely that politicians will punish the legal masses with any snap decisions.  It will help to make the laws more realistic and a bit more generous first, eg. increasing the speed limit from 15 to 20 mph.

[uphillbothways]

We shouldn't be against the manufacturers and importers because these bikes are legal at any speed on private land.

Legal to ride and own, but not legal to sell. A motor vehicle sold in the EU must be approved by an authorised body before it is placed on the market, unless specifically exempt. A bicycle or pedelec must satisfy the requirements of the relevant EN standards. The contraption we're discussing isn't approved as a motor vehicle, or capable of meeting the EN standards for a pedelec, or exempt from those requirements, so it is a criminal offence to market it for sale anywhere within the EU. You can't just go around selling potentially unsafe products with the justification caveat emptor.

Just by looking at the pictures, there's clear evidence that the manufacturers don't give a toss about safety. Schwalbe sell a variety of tyres that are ECE-R75 rated, and so have been tested for continuous powered use at speeds up to 50kph. They haven't bothered and have instead have fitted standard tyres, rated to 25kph. ECE-R75 tyres would still be totally inadequate for a vehicle with a top speed of 80kph, so fitting standard bicycle tyres is just egregious. Fuck it, it's only human life we're talking about.

[clarion]

The flipside:

http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/when-is-a-moped-not-a-moped-when-it-s-an-electric-tandem/015179

[TimO]

The flipside:

http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/when-is-a-moped-not-a-moped-when-it-s-an-electric-tandem/015179

Legally, I'd say they're on very dodgy grounds.  I'd guess they are claiming it's a tandem, because at 58kg it's just under the 60kg weight limit for a tandem.  However, being able to carry two people doesn't make it a tandem, I'd imagine you'd have to have two sets of pedals on it for that, which it clearly doesn't have.  I wouldn't use it on the roads, because it looks so much like a PTW, that the police are very rapidly going to pull you over and ask where your (i) helmet (ii) license plates (iii) insurance (iv) VED (v) European Community Whole Vehicle Type Approval / Single Vehicle Approval (vi) etc, is.

Ultimately it won't matter what the importers/manufacturers claim about it, legally you, as the driver, are responsible if you drive it on UK roads.

[clarion]

Quite.

[Cudzoziemiec]

The flipside:

http://www.bikebiz.com/news/read/when-is-a-moped-not-a-moped-when-it-s-an-electric-tandem/015179

Does that article finish with the words "caveat emptor"? It says "article continues below" but neither clicking nor scrolling show any more.

Certainly looks like an electric moped to me.

[Kim]

I believe that's what's technically known as "taking the piss".

[TimO]

The linked website of the manufacturer says:

This document provides general guidance and advice on the legislative requirements in Great Britain relating to Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles.  Every effort has been made to ensure that it is factually correct but recipients should check with the producers of this document if they have reason to believe any part is not correct or is now out of date

However their statement seems to have been made using a very fluid definition of tandem, which I seriously doubt the courts would support.  I doubt they'd be very impressed with that cop out either, but they probably have little power to stop them adding that in.  If I was working for trading standards in Gosport, Hampshire, where the UK importer MoparLTD is based, I'd be having a word with them.