Author Topic: LEL2017 – what a pity (not the nature of audax)  (Read 32683 times)

Re: LEL2017 – what a pity (not the nature of audax)
« Reply #250 on: 03 November, 2015, 06:54:31 pm »
Part of the problem is that local riders will have completely different perceptions of value compared with overseas riders, and the event has to cater for both groups. So for a local rider, £300 for five days (in my case :) ) all in TLC might seem expensive. For an overseas rider, five days TLC in a foreign country might well seem a bargain. How to square that observation with the fact the op is an overseas rider, I'm not sure.
Manotea - you say £300 might be expensive. Please give a break down of how you would cost such a ride. Unless all you eat is cheap out of date pasties and sleep in bus shelters I struggle to see how you do it. Four nights sleep at a TL will cost about £200 and that leaves £100 for five day's food. If you are riding about 300km per day that will be at least 5 meals a day so 15 meals all for £100 at about £6.50 each.

BB

If you're in a club you can book a family room at a Travelodge and get two lots of 3 in there, as you'll be sleeping five hours tops.  You can get multi packs of pasties as well.

LEL is under way now, there've been a number of pre-sales. It's pretty much set in stone.

I've never been refused a shower in a Travelodge, nor been woken an hour earlier than requested. I've never shared a Travelodge room with 50 snoring randonneurs and Travelodge have always provided bed and en suite bathroom rather than an air bed and a face cloth for a towel. I've never had a stranger of the opposite sex walk in on me in a Travelodge shower.
I think that's enough differences for me to demonstrate you're not really comparing like with like...

Is this some sort of teaser, when did a stranger of the same sex walk in on you in a Travelodge shower?

Re: LEL2017 – what a pity (not the nature of audax)
« Reply #251 on: 03 November, 2015, 08:28:27 pm »
Part of the problem is that local riders will have completely different perceptions of value compared with overseas riders, and the event has to cater for both groups. So for a local rider, £300 for five days (in my case :) ) all in TLC might seem expensive. For an overseas rider, five days TLC in a foreign country might well seem a bargain. How to square that observation with the fact the op is an overseas rider, I'm not sure.
Manotea - you say £300 might be expensive. Please give a break down of how you would cost such a ride. Unless all you eat is cheap out of date pasties and sleep in bus shelters I struggle to see how you do it. Four nights sleep at a TL will cost about £200 and that leaves £100 for five day's food. If you are riding about 300km per day that will be at least 5 meals a day so 15 meals all for £100 at about £6.50 each.

He said it might seem expensive. I don't think the difference between seem and be is overly pedantic.

A while ago, I made a post (I think in another place, in any case in another thread) along the lines that £300 was an absolute bargain for a five day activity holiday, including all accommodation and freshly-cooked food, and taking you to some of the most beautiful parts of the UK. However, £75 a night for four nights on an airbed in a dorm full of snoring, farting audaxers and as much mass-catered grub as you can eat doesn't seem quite such a good deal, especially as you've got to ride a bike all day (and probably much of the night) to get to your next airbed, and share the showers and loos with 1500 other people.

There's also the aspect that for a London-based rider, bumping the cost from £220 to £320 is pretty much a fifty percent hike for little visible benefit1 over last time, while for an overseas rider who is spending a *lot* more in any case the overall percentage rise is very unlikely to be significantly more than 15%, and may only be 3 or 5%. (At the lower end £100 each way for a short-haul flight on a budget airline including a rip-off bike fee, and £50x2 for one night in a budget hotel before and after, plus a bit for drinks and food would give a likely minimum 2013 cost of maybe £550 rising to £650 for 2017, while it would be easy to spend two or three grand on long-haul flights and a week or two in more expensive hotels.)





1: I should probably be clear that I absolutely support Danial's decision to raise the fee in order to pay people to do the grottier jobs like cleaning loos. "Little visible benefit" is simply a clumsy way of saying that I don't think riders will notice whether they are being fed food cooked by paid staff or volunteers, or using a shower cleaned by paid staff or volunteers. Paying staff in order to reduce the event's dependence on volunteers will - or at least should - make it a better event (if only because more sustainable) for both riders and volunteers, but I think it's the volunteers who will most likely have a noticeably more enjoyable experience. And while I'm glad of and grateful to all those volunteers who gave so much time and effort last time, I am glad that next time I won't be expecting quite so much of quite so many people, simply to make my ride cheaper.

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: LEL2017 – what a pity (not the nature of audax)
« Reply #252 on: 03 November, 2015, 09:41:44 pm »
Yes, I was commenting on perceived value. As a UK rider I would be confident and secure in my surroundings (well, I would be until I passed Cambridge; after that its wild country...) whereas as an overseas rider I would be getting extra value by being supported riding through strange lands where people spoke a different language, dressed differently and eat strange things. As a Londoner I wouldn't be getting such full value until I reached Scotland.

Re: LEL2017 – what a pity (not the nature of audax)
« Reply #253 on: 03 November, 2015, 09:53:18 pm »
Yes, I was commenting on perceived value. As a UK rider I would be confident and secure in my surroundings (well, I would be until I passed Cambridge; after that its wild country...) whereas as an overseas rider I would be getting extra value by being supported riding through strange lands where people spoke a different language, dressed differently and eat strange things. As a Londoner I wouldn't be getting such full value until I reached Scotland passed Watford.

There, that's better.

IanDG

  • The p*** artist formerly known as 'Windy'
    • the_dandg_rouleur
Re: LEL2017 – what a pity (not the nature of audax)
« Reply #254 on: 03 November, 2015, 10:28:35 pm »
Costs me £120 just to get to the mainland (return trip) with a car,add on a couple of nights accommodation either side of an event plus petrol. London to Edinburgh and Back with food and accommodation for £300? Bargain! Enjoyment don't come cheap.

Re: LEL2017 – what a pity (not the nature of audax)
« Reply #255 on: 06 November, 2015, 01:39:14 am »
I think some observers make assumptions in how others ride these distances. I do PBP with a few hours kip and a similar number of meals. LEL is not much more than that.On PBP I spent about 100 euro plus entry from start to finish which includes the finish meal. Of course that doesn't include the 60 quid to get there and back on the ferry and before and after hotels food and beer but nor does the LEL entry.

I know I am not alone in this style of riding.

Therefore for LEL 2017 for the entry fee I would get say 3 sit down meals, a camp bed for 4 to 6 hours and a load of snacks for the back pocket.  I also get the event and the insurance of more support if I need it. I see it as 3 days of cycling at 100 pounds a day which is about the same rate as skiing. Some people consider skiing expensive so I can certainly see why some think it is a lot. Too much? I don't know, the market will decide.

Re: LEL2017 – what a pity (not the nature of audax)
« Reply #256 on: 06 November, 2015, 10:50:09 am »
I'll get about 20 sit down meals and 4 nights accommodation, and a superbly organised event. Brilliant value, looking forward to it  :thumbsup:

I can't quite believe anyone would start a thread with such a miserably negative title. If it's not your cup of tea, don't drink it!

Re: LEL2017 – what a pity (not the nature of audax)
« Reply #257 on: 06 November, 2015, 11:27:14 am »
I'll get about 20 sit down meals and 4 nights accommodation, and a superbly organised event. Brilliant value, looking forward to it  :thumbsup:

I can't quite believe anyone would start a thread with such a miserably negative title. If it's not your cup of tea, don't drink it!



Very well said Laid back Rich

vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
    • Audaxing
Re: LEL2017 – what a pity (not the nature of audax)
« Reply #258 on: 06 November, 2015, 01:52:22 pm »
I think some observers make assumptions in how others ride these distances. I do PBP with a few hours kip and a similar number of meals. LEL is not much more than that.On PBP I spent about 100 euro plus entry from start to finish which includes the finish meal. Of course that doesn't include the 60 quid to get there and back on the ferry and before and after hotels food and beer but nor does the LEL entry.

I know I am not alone in this style of riding.

Therefore for LEL 2017 for the entry fee I would get say 3 sit down meals, a camp bed for 4 to 6 hours and a load of snacks for the back pocket.  I also get the event and the insurance of more support if I need it. I see it as 3 days of cycling at 100 pounds a day which is about the same rate as skiing. Some people consider skiing expensive so I can certainly see why some think it is a lot. Too much? I don't know, the market will decide.

I don't remember meeting you but in your other yacf posts you refer to the Mille Cymru as a "the most casual Audax I've ever done", always do the BCM scenic version and "wouldn't plan on or need to stop for a 600".  If you are "not alone in this style of riding" then you are in a quite exclusive club.

The LEL is a tour at what many people (not you) would consider a fast pace.  Most entrants will take the full 4 days.  That's how it's set up as an event, that's why it has the facilities it does and that's why it costs what it does.  It is not expensive.

Re: LEL2017 – what a pity (not the nature of audax)
« Reply #259 on: 06 November, 2015, 11:46:17 pm »
You have met me, I've enjoyed your events.

I am only suggesting those that consider  it's expensive have a point. The wonderful thing about Audax is it can be ridden many different ways suiting many different cycling styles from those that tend not to stop to those who book hotels for every night and every one in between.

In terms of board and lodgings I for me I do think it is expensive.  I'm sure some will get value out of it in those terms. I wouldn't count value just in those terms though and I do buy expensive things occasionally  ;)