Hebden Cord - Cycle Touring Shorts and Training Trousers

[akin]

Im interested in the Hebden Cord Co which was a Town and Country tailors.

I have found some images of the Cycle Touring Shorts and Training Trousers they produced.

I have done some general internet trawling but they had limited web presence - I know that they used to advertise in cycling mags and CTC from what I gather online.

This website has some information and images: http://archivalclothing.com/tag/hebden-cord/

However, what I have found is a little lacking in what I want. I thought the knowledge of YACF might be able to help me.

I am particularly interested in finding out a bit more about the reinforced seat and construction of the garments. There are not any decent images online of this.

Does anybody have any or a memory of how they were constructed?

Were the trousers/shorts constructed with a standard trouser pattern, and then an additional layer of fabric placed across the seat area?

Or were they constructed with a separate special pattern piece in the seat so there were no seam interference with the crotch and inner thigh?

Does anyone still have any stashed away? Could you supply me some decent images of the insides?

As my partner helpfully contributed 'Come on guys, give us a look at your gussets'.

[iddu]

No (fu) help at all today, but did come across http://www.wildrosearts.net/interviews-and-storytelling/interviews/1920-1929/colin-greenwood

Tried http://hebtro.co/about/ - They may know local (oldie) who can be modeled for new pattern.

[iddu]

(dig dig)

http://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=51097 -->

"Traditional cycling breeks - Hebden Cords

Unread postby Greybeard » 17 May 2011, 8:16pm
These are still available - not by Hebden, but by...........

https://www.spencers-trousers.com/index.php

who are not a million miles away. The breeks are superbly made (to measure) and delivered within a week. Really helpful and a pleasure to deal with."

[iddu]

Not originals, but http://www.corinnedennis.co.uk/traditional-style-touring-shorts-1225 for inspiration?

[akin]

Thanks for the responses and additional digging Iddu 

I have seen a variety of other forum posts, and had a quick browse of Spencers and Hebtro. I will now make sure that I have got them stored in a bookmarks folder as a future line of enquiry. The Colin Greenwood link is helpful and not something I have seen. I have one possible link from Hebden Bridge - so I may get her to ask her parents for any local knowledge.

The lines of enquiry I will pursue are local Hebden knowledge, general outdoor tailoring as inspiration whilst holding out hope for some first hand knowledge from the cycling community.

[fruitcake]

Judging from the photo at the top of the page you link to in the OP, that looks like a reinforcing patch, i.e. a piece of fabric on top of a conventionally-constructed crotch. I say that because I think I can see the fabric folding along the seam beneath it.

[The Bonk]

Judging from the photo at the top of the page you link to in the OP, that looks like a reinforcing patch, i.e. a piece of fabric on top of a conventionally-constructed crotch. I say that because I think I can see the fabric folding along the seam beneath it.

I'm pretty sure that is the case. Those are my shorts and cat. I can take some more photos. Maybe later on tomorrow, if not Monday. I have a couple of pairs of Hebden Cord Plus fours too. One in the same fabric as the pictured shorts and another in a heavier wool/tweed. Both with seat pads.

[tatanab]

I have used Hebden shorts, plusses and training bottoms.  Most I had were stock sizes, but I think I had some shorts made to order in the mid 70s.  The reinforced backside was just that, a second layer of material on the outside.  We did not go in for nappy pads in those days and just wore normal underwear.   The Corinne Dennis shorts mentioned have a single layer of material with a thin fleecy insert inside - I like them.

[akin]

Thanks fruitcake, with your helpful observation, I can now see what you mean about the way it appears the fabric is folding along the central seam. It makes sense that they would have used a standard trouser construction technique, like all the other products, and reinforced it with a patch over the top.

The Bonk; I would be really interested in seeing some more pictures of the shorts and plus fours with seat pads. Hope it is not be too much bother. No rush, when you have some spare time.

Are all your items still in active use? Are they functional items? Would you change anything about them in terms of their design?

tatanab - also interested in your views about their functionality, strengths and weaknesses from your extensive experience? Do you prefer items such as the Corinne Dennis shorts with modern technical fabrics?  Or is it a case of them having different strengths?

[tatanab]

tatanab - also interested in your views about their functionality, strengths and weaknesses from your extensive experience? Do you prefer items such as the Corinne Dennis shorts with modern technical fabrics?  Or is it a case of them having different strengths?

Hebden were very hard wearing.  Coming from a generation that had little money (born 1952) this was appreciated.  When worn through, the outer layer of the double backside could be removed, carefully, to get more life out of them.  I remember crashing on ice, twice in a couple of hundred yards, and the only damage was a scuff on my plusses.  Corinne Dennis shorts, I've had 3 generations of them, the latest ones are a lightweight material which is comfortable to wear, but I suspect will only last 5 or 6 years.  Fit - Hebden were cut much like trousers and the material had no stretch at all except for the Helenca material which had some.  Corinne Dennis are a much snugger fit and had reasonable stretch.  It is about 25 years since I last had Hebden shorts, so memories have faded, and I think I prefer the Corinne Dennis because by comparison Hebden shorts were thick and heavy for summer use.  This summer I rode in 40C quite comfortably in the modern shorts.  I still cannot abide huge nappy pads.

Semantics - By the 1960s cycling plusses were not plus 4.  Plus 4 were the very baggy ones that you see in photos of the 1920s, if pulled down they would reach almost to your ankles.  Cycling plusses I grew up with were plus 2 which reached only about 3 inches below the knee, so that as the fabric rode up over your socks when pedalling the knee was not exposed.  Hedben made climbing breeches (breeks) as well,  these reached only just below the knee and so left a bit of the knee exposed when riding so were not ideal.

[andrew_s]

The very baggy ones would have been Plus 8s.
They are all breeches, with a band at the bottom that buckles round just below the knee/above the calf, with the "plus number" being how many inches of extra length there was over regular breeches. Breeches were effectively "Plus 0s", and you could get "Plus 2s", "Plus 4s", "Plus 6s", an"Plus 8s". The more extra length there was, the baggier the cut, so the extra length would hang down neatly from the knee band without having to be pulled down and straightened.
Plus 2s was the normal length for cycling - enough length that the material wasn't continually pulling tight across the knee cap, without being too baggy.

They are all still available, mostly from shooting/country type places, but you wouldn't get the double seat without going bespoke.

[JenM]

There is a pair of shorts for sale over on the UK Cycling Forum

http://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=110600

[T42]

Who is Hebden Cord, anyway?  Someone like John Galt?