Author Topic: Neutering a dog - yes or no?  (Read 4417 times)

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Neutering a dog - yes or no?
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2017, 03:44:46 pm »
If you really have affection for your dog, you won't have his bollocks cut off in the vague hope that it will somehow make it behave as you want.

That ought to be true even if you don't have affection for the animal. As already stated, I don't believe in carrying out unnecessary medical procedures - not on humans, nor on animals. That's an ethical stance.

However, I also think you shouldn't let sentimentality cloud the decision. If there are sound reasons for carrying out the operation, I won't have any qualms about having it done.

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Neutering a dog - yes or no?
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2017, 04:14:04 pm »
I think all pets should be neutered. Hormones are a very powerful thing, so what Auntie Helen says, plus probably more examples.
It's not just about sex: http://www.apbc.org.uk/articles/neuteringmaledogs

That's very useful, thanks. Interestingly, the sole reason they advocate for neutering is population control. They seem to regard all the other popular reasons for neutering as at best unproven/inadequately researched.

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: Neutering a dog - yes or no?
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2017, 04:30:01 pm »
If you really have affection for your dog, you won't have his bollocks cut off in the vague hope that it will somehow make it behave as you want.

That ought to be true even if you don't have affection for the animal. As already stated, I don't believe in carrying out unnecessary medical procedures - not on humans, nor on animals. That's an ethical stance.

However, I also think you shouldn't let sentimentality cloud the decision. If there are sound reasons for carrying out the operation, I won't have any qualms about having it done.

I'm inclined to agree with that, but 'sound reasons' is where the weaselling happens (see for example all the medical procedures performed on perfectly healthy humans "so they won't be bullied at school").

I reckon neutering cats is perfectly reasonable on the basis of population control alone.  You really can't control a cat, other than by keeping it indoors (and the practicality of that will vary massively), and cat sexual behaviour isn't conducive to being good pets.  Dogs are much more controllable, so with a sufficiently competent owner maybe it isn't necessary?  I can understand why those with experience of rescue animals would be strongly in favour of neutering, as there's ample evidence that many owners are insufficiently competent.

Semi-rhetorical question: If neutering doesn't really affect behaviour, why aren't they doing vasectomies instead?
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: Neutering a dog - yes or no?
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2017, 04:32:15 pm »
Semi-rhetorical question: If neutering doesn't really affect behaviour, why aren't they doing vasectomies instead?
Because it's quicker and easier to take the lot off.
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: Neutering a dog - yes or no?
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2017, 04:38:22 pm »
Semi-rhetorical question: If neutering doesn't really affect behaviour, why aren't they doing vasectomies instead?
Because it's quicker and easier to take the lot off.

Suspected as much.  That you can tell it's been done with a Mk 1 eyeball is obviously desirable, too (by the vets and rescue people, if not the owners).
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

T42

  • Gaulois réfractaire
Re: Neutering a dog - yes or no?
« Reply #30 on: July 06, 2017, 04:59:58 pm »
We had our labs done for fear of prostate cancer: one of them had recurrent piddling problems and the vet advised it.  Doing just one would have put him at a disadvantage wrt the other, so both lost their goolies.  Main behavioural difference is that they squat to pee and there are a lot fewer domination incidents.

I was very much against it beforehand and felt I'd betrayed them afterwards, but we have lost three dogs to cancer at ages ranging from 5 to 7 and we didn't want to go through it again.   It's a few years on now and really, they're perfectly happy, playful and healthy. No regrets.
I dare eat all that may become a man.

But hold the oysters.

Eccentrica Gallumbits

  • Rock 'n' roll and brew, rock 'n' roll and brew...
Re: Neutering a dog - yes or no?
« Reply #31 on: July 06, 2017, 07:41:25 pm »
My feminist marxist dialectic brings all the boys to the yard.


fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: Neutering a dog - yes or no?
« Reply #32 on: July 06, 2017, 07:54:03 pm »
I can't help feeling that people who earn from operations are more likely to think they're necessary. There's quite a lot of evidence that pay-per-op dentists put in more fillings, for example.
It's a bit like ER docs thinking helmets are worthwhile and policemen thinking there's crimes everywhere- if you only see dogs with behavioural issues / cyclists after accidents / victims reporting crimes, you may think those things are more common than they really are?

The other thing is, there's no rush. You can lop 'em at any time- if it turns out he is a runner (the only escapee I've had was my grandma's Border Terrier bitch who would leave for hours down rabbit warrens), or a humper, you can deal with that as and when it arises.

Anyway, where's feline? She's the pro on this.
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

Mrs Pingu

  • Who ate all the pies? Me
    • Twitter
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Re: Neutering a dog - yes or no?
« Reply #34 on: July 06, 2017, 08:10:37 pm »
... a humper, you can deal with that as and when it arises.

Hehe... I see what you did there :D

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Neutering a dog - yes or no?
« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2017, 10:29:12 am »
... a humper, you can deal with that as and when it arises.

Hehe... I see what you did there :D

Careful, Chris. Don't hold your manhood cheap...













just hold your manhood.
Basses lower the tone.

Eccentrica Gallumbits

  • Rock 'n' roll and brew, rock 'n' roll and brew...
Re: Neutering a dog - yes or no?
« Reply #36 on: July 07, 2017, 12:51:28 pm »
I can't help feeling that people who earn from operations are more likely to think they're necessary.
Maybe, but surely there are ethics about recommending unnecessary surgery.
My feminist marxist dialectic brings all the boys to the yard.


ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Neutering a dog - yes or no?
« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2017, 09:35:21 pm »
My childhood dentist performed unnecessary procedures to fund her enthusiasm for off-label pharmaceutical usage. I have enough mercury in my head that I could probably sell it as scrap metal. Whoever is charged with ensuring dentists behave too a dim view of her hobbies and funding mechanism. I've never trusted dentists ever since.

But she didn't, for the record, remove my testicles. I checked, they're still there. Unless she slipped a couple of mercury filled neuticles in there. Clacking those around would be cool. Newton balls would have nothing on mine.

I have no idea why I am in this thread. Lop them off, there's enough bollocks in the world. It's not like you can have a man-to-man talk with a dog. Or can you? I don't know. I've tried to explain enantiomers to my cats. All I can say is that they'd make shit chemists.

!nataS pihsroW

Mrs Pingu

  • Who ate all the pies? Me
    • Twitter
Re: Neutering a dog - yes or no?
« Reply #38 on: July 07, 2017, 11:08:56 pm »
<wonders how long it's been since she heard the word enantiomers, boggles, goes back to the gin>
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: Neutering a dog - yes or no?
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2017, 12:00:21 pm »
Chirality, unavoidable if you're a biochemist. It was actually a very bad joke about cats failing to recognise their own reflection.
!nataS pihsroW

nicknack

  • Fledgling Swampy
Re: Neutering a dog - yes or no?
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2017, 06:35:33 pm »
If you keep a dog as a pet you've already accepted that it's fine to interfere with the biology of a formerly wild animal.
There's no vibrations, but wait.

Re: Neutering a dog - yes or no?
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2017, 06:46:36 pm »
Domestic dogs aren't wild animals.
Those wonderful norks are never far from my thoughts, oh yeah!

Re: Neutering a dog - yes or no?
« Reply #42 on: August 11, 2017, 09:18:50 pm »
I only know about cats, but Kai didn't change his tendency to roam, when he was neutered.

It did either stop him spraying in the house, or he managed to do it without being noticed, and once neutered it's a lot less smelly, so wasn't obvious.  He did spray in the house twice before he was done, and it was hard work to remove the smell from the carpet.

As others have said, with cats, it's probably far more about population control, and I think it is likely Kai disappeared off to try and get his paw over with the local female cat population.  Whenever he's around the house, he'll have a good sniff at Zev's rear, which may just be a general "hello" sniff, or may be him checking out whether she's ready for his attention!

Aside from their general abilities to escape and wander around the local area, I think cats are also somewhat more profligate breeders than dogs, so neutering/spaying is a far more necessary requirement.

I'm afraid that if I had a male dog, I suspect that I likely would have him neutered.  Ultimately a pet dog isn't going to listen to us telling him he doesn't want to be a daddy, and even an accidental escape could result in some female dog finding herself pregnant, that would not otherwise happen.  We do massively impact upon the life that a dog lives, it's hard to consider that this particular behaviour by us is worse than other things that we'll do.  Allowed to roam the country, outside of our control, a dog may have a freer life, but it would also probably be much shorter, without access to modern veterinary care.  Swings and roundabouts.
Actually, it is rocket science.
 

Re: Neutering a dog - yes or no?
« Reply #43 on: August 24, 2017, 11:20:43 pm »
Depends on a lot of things:
-Is he likely to get in contact with bitches in heat?
- Is he around other dogs? Dog parks?
- Does he hump stuff and/or mark a lot?

Yes to any of the above and I would chop'm off.

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Neutering a dog - yes or no?
« Reply #44 on: June 13, 2018, 11:06:17 am »
Well, he's gone in for the op today.

Lately, we've had a few incidents of aggression towards other dogs. I know that most behavioural problems can/should be resolved with training, and I am concerned that some of his occasionally unruly behaviour may be a reflection on our shortcomings as dog owners (he's generally very good but not always the most obedient). However, I'm also aware that some behaviours are purely hormonal and can't be trained out, and after discussing it with the vet, we've come to the decision that this is the best option.

We didn't feel any pressure from the vet to have it done and they did warn us that it isn't guaranteed to cure behavioural problems, so I didn't feel there was any element of salesmanship behind their advice.

Re: Neutering a dog - yes or no?
« Reply #45 on: June 13, 2018, 12:14:16 pm »
Not sure neutering will cure that one.

Our Tilly is nice as pie to 99% of dogs she meets but there is the occasional one that she just flies at teeth bared and snarling  (including two in our village unfortunately).  There are another two that elicit the same reaction only if she and they are on the lead but are best of friends off the lead. I can't work it out at all.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

LEE

  • "Shut Up Jens" - Legs.
Re: Neutering a dog - yes or no?
« Reply #46 on: June 13, 2018, 12:28:23 pm »
Domestic dogs aren't wild animals.

They are when you're trying to hack their balls off

"Wild?  I was absolutely furious"
Some people say I'm self-obsessed but that's enough about them.

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Neutering a dog - yes or no?
« Reply #47 on: June 13, 2018, 12:48:59 pm »
Not sure neutering will cure that one.

True, it might not, but having discussed it at length with the vet, we decided it was worth doing and I'm happy that we're not doing it for the wrong reasons.

A lot of the advice given in this thread did help with the thought process, so thanks all for your input (and sorry if you don't agree with our decision).

Re: Neutering a dog - yes or no?
« Reply #48 on: June 13, 2018, 01:04:43 pm »
Not sure neutering will cure that one.

True, it might not, but having discussed it at length with the vet, we decided it was worth doing and I'm happy that we're not doing it for the wrong reasons.

A lot of the advice given in this thread did help with the thought process, so thanks all for your input (and sorry if you don't agree with our decision).

Definitely the right thing to do for lots of reasons.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Eccentrica Gallumbits

  • Rock 'n' roll and brew, rock 'n' roll and brew...
Re: Neutering a dog - yes or no?
« Reply #49 on: June 13, 2018, 01:07:34 pm »
I can't help feeling that people who earn from operations are more likely to think they're necessary.
Maybe, but surely there are ethics about recommending unnecessary surgery.
Plus, I think most UK vets had no problem with declawing being made illegal.
My feminist marxist dialectic brings all the boys to the yard.