AAA Points

[YahudaMoon]

'Back in the day', AUK had a rule that only the first ride of a brevet (of repeated rides each year) counted towards awards. It was intended to discourage people from wearing grooves in their local roads.

I did not know that.

You can train a bike now on DIY's so it knows where it's going . This is a good thing as all your concentration in put into looking out for traffic, obstacles and actually cycling.

So on a health and safety issue its all good as your bike does all the navigation.

[Peter]

'Back in the day', AUK had a rule that only the first ride of a brevet (of repeated rides each year) counted towards awards. It was intended to discourage people from wearing grooves in their local roads.

I did not know that.

You can train a bike now on DIY's so it knows where it's going . This is a good thing as all your concentration in put into looking out for traffic, obstacles and actually cycling.

So on a health and safety issue its all good as your bike does all the navigation.

Behave yourself, John!  I've got lost on two of my DIYs this year - my own routes.  So you see, special people can always bork any system!

[eeymsmo]

I don't think Marcus' route is a GPS only muddle for AAA type of thing. On the thread about the number of points being submitted for DIYs it was mentioned that this 3500km route has 41 checkpoints (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=34447.msg1008339#msg1008339), which sounds like a sane number for something this long. And as a permanent doesn't that mean they have to be proper controls, so the ride could be repeated without a GPS unit? And as the AAA has been agreed that could be claimed as well.

And you don't need to manually calculate the climbing on those long routes, just ride them with a GPS  Personally I think that's a harder way of calculating the points than sitting at home with an OS map and beverage of choice.

Doesn't a GPS system do it for you?  I've done several hilly DIYs this year, including a 300, all of which would almost certainly qualify for AAA points but when I sat down with the OS maps to contour count I quickly realised I could be out on my bike instead!  I can't see how contour-counting would be easier than GPS, though I haven't actually got GPS, admittedly.

Further "an OS map".... Marcus would have needed the whole set probably!

Yep, the GPS unit does the contour count for you. But only if you ride the route, which in this case is probably a lot more effort that counting the countour lines would be (certainly for me). Though ,as you say, it'd be a lot more fun to do the ride.

very intrigued where the route goes.

[TOBY]

As Marcus Yeo lists YACF as his club, I thought I would share this event just recorded by AUK
Yes, 3450km and 43.25AAA points - Event (No.YEO01) is open for anyone else to repeat

JB0738
YEO01 5067
 3400 km
Rider: Marcus Yeo

Marcus YeO!

[Greenbank]

very intrigued where the route goes.

"GB Grand Tour" is all that was mentioned in the DIY thread...

[MattH]

very intrigued where the route goes.

Well, at 3400km in the UK, I'd say just about everywhere 

[Phixie]

Why not start a thread on the subject? Apart from the "Fight" thread, we haven't had any decent barney around here for a while  ...

(not entirely trolling - for I think I agree with you, although in fairness, it's only AAA and FWC niches that award points for sub-200 events)

For the record (and to avoid a multitude of mini-claims) the FWC awards 1 point for either 150 or 100KM events and two points for two of each, but nothing for a 50KM ride, even if it does attract AAA points.

Regards,

RP

[marcus]

My initial idea for this ride was to visit the southernmost, northernmost, westernmost and easternmost points of England. It grew from there as I amended the route to take in various bits of scenery.

So, off the top of my head, the route went something like this:

From Peterborough to Dover, crossing the Thames at Tilbury. Then west to the Lizard and Land's End, taking in the Dorset coast and Dartmoor en route. From Land's End round the coast to St Ives and Newquay and on over Exmoor. Then a long trek over to Lowestoft on the east coast and back to Peterborough. NW from Peterborough through the Peak District (Snake Pass) and on to Blackpool. Then back east through the Yorkshire Dales (Hawes) and the North York Moors to Whitby. Back west again through more of the North York Moors and Yorkshire Dales & eventually on to Barrow in Furness. Then NE through the Lake District to Penrith, over Hartside & through the Northumberland hills to Berwick. A brief diversion over the border into Scotland, then south over Carter Bar and across the northern Pennines (Haydon Bridge, Weardale, Teesdale) and finally through Richmond, Lincolnshire and back home to Peterborough.

I'm quite amused that a ride that visits Lowestoft qualifies for AAA points.

In some respects a ride of this length is easier than say a 1200 or 1500 km ride, as the minimum speed is 8.3km/h (200km/day). So it feels more like touring than audaxing. I took 15 days in total - an average of about 230 km each day.

[Chris S]

In some respects a ride of this length is easier than say a 1200 or 1500 km ride, as the minimum speed is 8.3km/h (200km/day). So it feels more like touring than audaxing. I took 15 days in total - an average of about 230 km each day.

Still quite an achievement, nevertheless! Fixed gear?

[RichForrest]

And also the gps does the track but the route still needs contour counting before it is verified, Steve does this for every ride added.
Some devices tend to over read the height and you end up with 6AAA for a Fenland ride 

[marcus]

In some respects a ride of this length is easier than say a 1200 or 1500 km ride, as the minimum speed is 8.3km/h (200km/day). So it feels more like touring than audaxing. I took 15 days in total - an average of about 230 km each day.

Still quite an achievement, nevertheless! Fixed gear?

Yes. I switched between 48/18 and 48/19 depending on the terrain.

[Peter]

And also the gps does the track but the route still needs contour counting before it is verified, Steve does this for every ride added.

But presumably only for DIYs by gps, not old-fashioned "list-of-controls" ones?

[arabella]

Weelll, my jaw is slack and my mind is boggling.
(Tho' I agree about the longer distances and lower average speed comment)

[mattc]

And also the gps does the track but the route still needs contour counting before it is verified, Steve does this for every ride added.

Does this mean that you can decide on-the-day whether to take the High Road between 2 controls?

[Billy Weir]

In some respects a ride of this length is easier than say a 1200 or 1500 km ride, as the minimum speed is 8.3km/h (200km/day). So it feels more like touring than audaxing. I took 15 days in total - an average of about 230 km each day.

The thing is, most of us will never attempt to find out how much easier it is.  Although a benchmark being set tends to inspire others to beat it.

Predictions for when someone will emerge who attempts a 73,000km permanent (200km a day for 365 days)?  Mind you, next year is a leap year, so 73,200km for the really keen...

730 points and probably 1000AAA if done properly.

[Peter]

In some respects a ride of this length is easier than say a 1200 or 1500 km ride, as the minimum speed is 8.3km/h (200km/day). So it feels more like touring than audaxing. I took 15 days in total - an average of about 230 km each day.

The thing is, most of us will never attempt to find out how much easier it is.  Although a benchmark being set tends to inspire others to beat it.

Predictions for when someone will emerge who attempts a 73,000km permanent (200km a day for 365 days)?  Mind you, next year is a leap year, so 73,200km for the really keen...

730 points and probably 1000AAA if done properly.

and underwater on a unicycle?

[Steve Snook]

and underwater on a unicycle?

Marcus did descend to 227m below sea level at one point according to his GPS tracklog.

A few points from earlier posts:

No I don't contour count DIY's by GPS, just check out the tracklogs for the likes of the above.

It's too complicated to have one set of rules for AUK events and another for AAA events. So if an event's long enough for AUK, it's long enough for AAA, as long as there's the odd bit of scenery, of course.

The aim of the AAA is to "offer a challenge to regular long distance riders and also to those who do not wish to ride the longest events but who enjoy hard riding".

So there's room for Marcus's extravaganza as well as short trips round the block.

OnwAAArds and upwAAArds.

[Peter]

and underwater on a unicycle?

Marcus did descend to 227m below sea level at one point according to his GPS tracklog.

Maybe the gps got fooled by the weather; it rained for most of July here, anyway

[marcus]

and underwater on a unicycle?

Marcus did descend to 227m below sea level at one point according to his GPS tracklog.

Maybe the gps got fooled by the weather; it rained for most of July here, anyway

I had three very wet days in the north of England and the altimeter on my gps eventually more or less gave up. It started working again once it dried out.

[Peter]

and underwater on a unicycle?

Marcus did descend to 227m below sea level at one point according to his GPS tracklog.

Aw, come on, Marcus, now you've spoilt it!  (Well done, by the way!)

Maybe the gps got fooled by the weather; it rained for most of July here, anyway

I had three very wet days in the north of England and the altimeter on my gps eventually more or less gave up. It started working again once it dried out.

[StevieB]

....
After 3 years I thought it worth raising the matter again to see what people's views are now.
 
Just as a reminder, there is a minimum rate of climb for each distance, e.g. for a 100km event it is 15m per km, for a 200km event it is 14m per km, for a 300km event it is 13.33m per km etc.
 
The present formula provides a quarter point for achieving the minimum rate of climb. So a 100km event with a rate of climb of 15m per km....
 
The new simpler system suggested in 2005 was to keep the minimum rate of climb for each distance as now, but to score a point per thousand metres for all climbing in the event regardless of distance....

Discuss!

Steve, the AAA Man

Steve,

Thanks for the opportunity to air our opinions on the AAA system – I must admit I am no fan of climbing hills but I am sensitive to the difference terrain makes to a ride, and it is good to acknowledge distance is not the only measure of achievement in audax.

I recognise the need to keep the recording system as simple as possible to reduce the administration burden. However, please allow me to suggest the ‘ideal’ system from a rider’s perspective: average gradient or total meters climbed is not the issue – it’s the hills climbed! To me a hill is 100 m climb in 1 km. That has a tough enough gradient (10%) and it lasts long enough to feel the pain!  (OK, I‘m not saying this is the exact formulae, maybe 90m climb in 1 km = 1 hill, maybe 50 m is worth ½ a point.. my point is a hill is a hill! Everyone will have a slightly different view on what constitutes a hill – to me 100 m climb in 1 km is a stern test, regardless of how long the ride is and how flat it is otherwise.)

I’ve done some longer rides this year which contained some nasty hills, and I feel a bit cheated at not getting any points at all  (as the ride overall did not qualify for points). In one such ride, I did get some points because it contained a brutal stage which was considered on its own merits.

To my mind, that is the way to go – just take it one more step!

I reckon over half the people riding audax events have GPS, so getting a route for every event should not be a problem. There is free PC software which will give altitude and distance figures, so, without relying on altitude recorded by GPS units, I’m betting someone would be willing to go: between points A and B (less than 1km apart) there is a climb of 100m. That information needs to be shared somehow so others can challenge it – if it really gets controversial someone can count the contours! But for the most part, the effort can be shared in a community so no one person gets lumbered with all the work!   

Maybe the results don’t come out so different from the current system, but the relationship between effort and ‘reward’ is more obvious, and riders would have a clearer idea what to expect.

Hope this all makes sense!

Steve.

Oh! I feel so much better now!   

[PloddinPedro]

I had three very wet days in the north of England and the altimeter on my gps eventually more or less gave up. It started working again once it dried out.

Just out of curiosity, which make/model of GPS was it?

[marcus]

I had three very wet days in the north of England and the altimeter on my gps eventually more or less gave up. It started working again once it dried out.

Just out of curiosity, which make/model of GPS was it?

Garmin etrex vista.

[Uncle Eric]

Also out of curiosity - doing 230 km a day for 15 days, what were the main difficulties after a few days
that one should be aware of attempting multi day riding like that at a consistent pace? I'm toying with
the idea of a 2,500-ish km ride from S Sweden to N Sweden, to N Norway, to S Norway, to S Sweden
ride next year, possibly at Audax pace effort, with a mix of tent, cloudless and warm night ditch
(if 2012 would be that type of year) sleeping, visiting friends and relatives and dodgy
hostel stops.

[Lovely Horse]

This year's AAA Championship for men and women looks rather close.

On the female side, it looks like Ann Marshall put in a late charge to overtake Mary-Jane Watson.

On the male side, Rob Bialek likewise put in a huge effort over October, presumably aiming to overtake Steve Snook.  But it looks like, possibly, a case of just being pipped out of the award, unless he has a couple of late rides not published yet.

The interesting thing (at least to me) in the male competition this year is that it shows that it is possible to win the AAA trophy without being a mile monster, given Steve's average ride distance of less than 70km (or 4 hours or so in the saddle, on average).  An award for the time poor to aim for?

Champagne and cigars all round.  Or at least energy drink and fig rolls.