Author Topic: Give up or go Bent?  (Read 3569 times)

Give up or go Bent?
« on: July 31, 2017, 02:48:31 pm »
I've written here before about comfort issues, but I'm going to try once more as I'm totally fed up  :-[

I quite enjoy Audax riding, usually getting ~20 AUK points a year, and having a crack as an RRTY/SR series every couple of years.

I'm not a powerful/fast rider, I have done DIY200's in 8 hours, but on usual events I'm about 3/4 way down the field, and on lumpier 4 or 600's I'm closer to the time limit with 1-3 hours in hand.

I've had bike fitting, and lots of trail & error, but no matter what I do, I end up with too much weight on my wrists.  I'm finding now that after 200k it's getting painful & I find it hard to finish a 4 or 600.  I've completed LEL twice, but now feeling like I have nothing to prove find it quite easy to bail on 4 or 600s once it's simply stops being fun due to painful wrists/hands.

I've gone from riding a 56 Trek Madone, to a 56 Boardman, and now a 54 Genesis Equilibrium.
I've fitted tri bars to give me a way to rest my hands
I've fitted an adamo saddle to save my undercarrage when on the tri bars.  it's pushed as far back as possible on a thompson setback post, I find it comfy
I've fitted a shorter stem

I don't feel cramped on the bike, but the reach is about as short as is reasonable.

Angling the saddle more upwards causes lower back pain so I think I have my pelvis in a good place
Saddle height etc is mm adjusted to resolve some knee issues I've had for ever


I know I should do more core stability work, i guess it could make a big difference?

Should I see about setting the saddle even further back so I can cantilever more?

Should I just give up?

My wife is insistent that a 'bent is off the cards - she's concerned about safety (I know).  I'm drawn to the 700c high racers

Any other bright ideas?

Thanks in advance,

Re: Give up or go Bent?
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2017, 03:16:59 pm »
I hesitate to offer advice to someone with your experience - you have done more longer rides than I will ever do - but I'm not sure shorter helps with getting weight off wrists.

Longer and higher, imho, helps with this.

Maybe someone else can comment.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Give up or go Bent?
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2017, 03:30:46 pm »
Shorter seemed to help for a while, in that when I changed to it, it was better than the longer stem.

Certainly the shorter bike is better in general, but something isn't right, so who knows any more!

Re: Give up or go Bent?
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2017, 03:33:42 pm »
.. but no matter what I do, I end up with too much weight on my wrists. 
...

Hi Bobby - not sure if this helps with root cause, and I've only done 200s, but I have to double-mitt even with fairly thick (well overlapped) bar tape, to avoid a certain amount of wrist ache building up.  I have a pair of planet-x mitts under a slightly larger pair from Lidl - so pads in different places.  I also reduced the quill stem length on my main (steel) bike from 12" - 10", which may have helped... 
Destroying rainforest for economic gain is like burning a Renaissance painting to cook a meal.  EOW.

Re: Give up or go Bent?
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2017, 04:00:37 pm »
Thanks guys,

I have some 'gel pads' under the (cinelli gel tape), and pretty good (aka padded) gloves - not sure I can do much more on that regard ;/

Re: Give up or go Bent?
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2017, 08:05:27 pm »
Core strength exercises - Pilates, yoga, kettlebells, what have you - will probably make a difference; I always notice the (negative) effect when I've neglected them for a while. Whether it's enough to​ make a difference to your hands is unfortunately a matter of suck it and see.

Re: Give up or go Bent?
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2017, 09:42:18 pm »
sounds terrible but for me there were three words that stuck out like a sore thumb;

" Thompson Setback Post "

Yes this post has more setback than their alternative inline design but it is not a seat post which has any real layback. The front of the clamp at best lies inline with the centreline of the seat tube.  Not A Setback Post, then..... ::-)

My suggestion is to file that misnamed item under 'B' for 'Bin' and then to get a seat pin that actually does have some setback to it instead.  Cheaper than a new frame.... or a new 'bent....

BTW it isn't unusual for the 'weight on hands' issue to become worse on longer rides, because you simply are not pedalling as hard. Pushing on the pedals is the main way your hands are unloaded if you don't have enough setback, so longer rides = more setback please in the normal run of things.

Worth a go?

hth

cheers


Re: Give up or go Bent?
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2017, 10:39:10 pm »
sounds terrible but for me there were three words that stuck out like a sore thumb;

" Thompson Setback Post "

Yes this post has more setback than their alternative inline design but it is not a seat post which has any real layback. The front of the clamp at best lies inline with the centreline of the seat tube.  Not A Setback Post, then..... ::-)
 <snip>
Worth a go?

hth

cheers

OMG I always thought it was a 25mm layback post... it's not.  16mm quoted, given the clamp size I think even less!

Thanks for that, certainly worth trying a different one,

Will order one in the morning  :thumbsup:

Samuel D

Re: Give up or go Bent?
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2017, 10:57:36 pm »
Definitely try to get the saddle back. Your 54 cm Genesis Equilibrium has a 73-degree seat tube angle. That’s pretty steep for long-distance work, especially if you’re a high-cadence spinner rather than a grinder. Your seatpost apparently doesn’t have much setback, and even your saddle seems aimed at a forward position. Certainly for me, that combination would put intolerable weight on the hands.

There aren’t many seatposts available to rectify this. Shop carefully. The Nitto S84 would fit the bill but is very expensive. I think Velo Orange do a cheaper one with a bit less setback, and there may be one in Planet X’s badly documented wares.

Re: Give up or go Bent?
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2017, 06:51:54 am »
How much lsyback you need from a seatpost depends on saddle choice.  Brooks are the worst because they have short rails.  Some saddles have nice long rails and can be pushed further back.

The trend to 73 degree sest tubes on touring and audax frames serms driven more by far eastern design standards (most good frames being made in Taiwan) than any ergonomic concerns. The predominance of inline seatposts only exacerbates the problem.
Never tell me the odds.

Re: Give up or go Bent?
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2017, 07:59:06 am »
Ok so I will go for more than 25mm which I think simply makes it expensive...

Now to decide, 32mm or even more like the nitto?

Re: Give up or go Bent?
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2017, 11:22:41 am »
That’s pretty steep for long-distance work, especially if you’re a high-cadence spinner rather than a grinder.

I've been trying to work out why it's gradually "getting worse", over the last couple of years I've moved to a much higher cadence on reflection that will have contributed to the situation

Thanks all, this is giving me some hope!

Re: Give up or go Bent?
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2017, 02:22:12 pm »
So,
I can get carbon FSA with 32mm offset for £130
or the Nitto CroMo with 40mm offset for £100

eek

Re: Give up or go Bent?
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2017, 02:29:53 pm »
http://freshtripe.co.uk/velo-orange-grand-cru-long-setback-seatpost-mkii-27-2mm/ ?

Otherwise I think I've a nearly-new (never-fitted, but may have the odd mark from being in a box of bits) Specialized seatpost which has 35mm offset, which I would be willing to let go for a great deal less than £100...

Re: Give up or go Bent?
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2017, 02:36:35 pm »
Any chance that it could be carpal tunnel syndrome flaring up, is there?
Never knowingly under caffeinated

Re: Give up or go Bent?
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2017, 04:53:47 pm »
Nitto S84 (45 mm setback) £90 at hubjub
VO Grand Cru (30 mm setback) £45 at freshtripe

Re: Give up or go Bent?
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2017, 05:53:58 pm »
Otherwise I think I've a nearly-new (never-fitted, but may have the odd mark from being in a box of bits) Specialized seatpost which has 35mm offset, which I would be willing to let go for a great deal less than £100...

I'd certainly be up for buying something used to try at least, even if then went for something more bling later :)

Re: Give up or go Bent?
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2017, 06:41:44 pm »
very similar to the VO (IIRC) but a lot cheaper

http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/SPHOGS/holdsworth-gran-sport-seatpost

cheers

Samuel D

Re: Give up or go Bent?
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2017, 04:20:25 pm »
Nitto says the S84 has 37 mm offset.

Bobby, above, says 40 mm.

Andrew_s says 45 mm.

Which is it?

Re: Give up or go Bent?
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2017, 09:31:53 pm »
Doooooo iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!!! Come to the Dark Side. :demon:

High Racers are the answer on roads. My head is the same height as the average car driver, whereas your average trike or mid/low racer starts to disappear. If I could I'd have an unsuspended S30 from Cruzbike, but because I can't afford that it's an extra-reclined V2k which weighs twice as much.
Cruzbike V2k

Re: Give up or go Bent?
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2017, 09:48:22 pm »
Doooooo iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!!! Come to the Dark Side. :demon:

High Racers are the answer on roads. My head is the same height as the average car driver, whereas your average trike or mid/low racer starts to disappear. If I could I'd have an unsuspended S30 from Cruzbike, but because I can't afford that it's an extra-reclined V2k which weighs twice as much.

FWD? I better do some research :)

Re: Give up or go Bent?
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2017, 10:17:09 pm »
Have a  look at the Steve Hogg website for advice, or have you been there already?

Re: Give up or go Bent?
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2017, 10:36:55 pm »
Have a  look at the Steve Hogg website for advice, or have you been there already?

Have read similar, but looks good thanks.


Any chance that it could be carpal tunnel syndrome flaring up, is there?

No its different to that - more like I've taken a bruising/bashing



Am convinced to try a seatpost after the realistaion I'm not 25mm back already.  I have seen one with more offset on ebay & will give it a go.

It's going to take some time to test out, but I'll report back as i progress.
Thanks all for the help 

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Give up or go Bent?
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2017, 11:04:03 pm »
High Racers are the answer on roads. My head is the same height as the average car driver, whereas your average trike or mid/low racer starts to disappear.

Having ridden a Streetmachine (it's high, but definitely not a racer), an ICE Sprint (it's low, but... you get the idea), and an Optima Baron (which is low and actually designed for racing), I'd agree but for different reasons:

Being higher up means that your head is above the dipped headlight cutoff point and generally out of tyre splash range of overtaking vehicles.  It also means you can usefully draft upwrongs, and to a lesser extent be drafted by them.  You also get a better view over hedges, through the windows of parked cars, etc.

Being low means you're more sheltered from the wind, and probably more aero anyway.  You're not going to get instantly run over on a low recumbent any more than you are on an upright, but you do often need to edge out to see at junctions (effectively cars become vans when it comes to blocking the view).  Being low is fine in good weather, but it can be a bit rubbish if it's wet or dark (or, bonus for glasses-wearers: wet and dark) and there are a lot of cars about.

For audax type riding, rolling resistance and comfort on crap surfaces is probably more important than every last bit of aerodynamic performance.  Big wheels are the way to go, if you've got the legs to suit.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Give up or go Bent?
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2017, 05:56:24 pm »
High Racers are the answer on roads. My head is the same height as the average car driver, whereas your average trike or mid/low racer starts to disappear.

For audax type riding, rolling resistance and comfort on crap surfaces is probably more important than every last bit of aerodynamic performance.  Big wheels are the way to go, if you've got the legs to suit.

+1 for all of the above.  Not sure I'd have wanted a 700c as my first recumbent 2 wheeler though.  The 20/26 felt strange enough to start with - if I'd been on a 700c, that might have been a step too far, but maybe at 60ish I didn't have the bravado and invincibility of youth on my side! Unfortunately I'm a bit of short-ar*e, with an x-seam of 43" (inseam 29"), so a Highracer (with a 52cm seat height) was always going to be at the outer edge of the envelope.  As Kim says, if you've the legs to suit......

There are lots of reasons to go 'bent if you have physiological issues, but you need to find the right configuration, just like you need to find the right bike fit on a DF bike.  With recumbents that's less easy as they are not so adjustable.  Seat height is really critical IMHO.  You have to be able to get that foot down easily and confidently at junctions, lights etc.  Otherwise you'll never be able to relax and enjoy the ride.